Madden NFL 16 Features All-New Controls to Dominate Air Supremacy

[aholbert32]

Re: Madden NFL 16 Features All-New Controls to Dominate Air Supremacy

I've had this discussion at Tiburon. What I'm usually told (I'm greatly distilling these conversations) is: "We want to be authentic, but where it doesn't make the game tedious." Their oft-cited example is, "You want 100% realistic? Yes? So you want to play 15 minute quarters?"

I'm as big a simulation guy as there is and that's a valid point for the vast majority of gamers.

See this is where they **** up. Yes, most people wont want to play 15 min quarters in order to get realistic stats. But some people will so you should give them the option. That goes for everything else.

Most people dont want to deal with pass interference or holding calls but some do. So they should give us that option.

[shaunlmason]

Re: Madden NFL 16 Features All-New Controls to Dominate Air Supremacy

Truth. As some will recall, I was onboard with the vision and progression of the series from M10-12. I was ok with improvement year to year. But man, the vision should be realized by now. It baffles me how other games in this genre can/have reinvented themselves in just a few cycles, but Madden can't turn that corner.



This is also true -- which is why I still don't understand why PS2 era editions were held in such high regard.

Still, the caveat is that every other AAA sports title has shown that you can gear the game towards authenticity, and still come up on the right side of accessibility. Their current approach still lends itself to Madden having an identity issue.

What game in this genre has reinvented itself?

[shaunlmason]

Re: Madden NFL 16 Features All-New Controls to Dominate Air Supremacy

See this is where they **** up. Yes, most people wont want to play 15 min quarters in order to get realistic stats. But some people will so you should give them the option. That goes for everything else.

Most people dont want to deal with pass interference or holding calls but some do. So they should give us that option.

Agreed. That's something think The Show does extremely well. They give you options, and they work.

[roadman]

Re: Madden NFL 16 Features All-New Controls to Dominate Air Supremacy

See this is where they **** up. Yes, most people wont want to play 15 min quarters in order to get realistic stats. But some people will so you should give them the option. That goes for everything else.

Most people dont want to deal with pass interference or holding calls but some do. So they should give us that option.

I agree, simulation mode/fun mode and somewhere in between mode, casual mode.

[kjcheezhead]

Re: Madden NFL 16 Features All-New Controls to Dominate Air Supremacy

I've had this discussion at Tiburon. What I'm usually told (I'm greatly distilling these conversations) is: "We want to be authentic, but where it doesn't make the game tedious." Their oft-cited example is, "You want 100% realistic? Yes? So you want to play 15 minute quarters?"

I'm as big a simulation guy as there is and that's a valid point for the vast majority of gamers.

This goes along with the penalty argument. Some people do want 15 minute quarters with or without accelerated clock. Some people want a full assortment of penalties. With Madden the only option available you should be able to do these things. Why included penalty sliders if they aren't going to work anyways?

For the most part, I don't think people are talking about stuff like they. They mean route based passing, realistic movement, gap assignments, on the field realism. No I don't think any of they is tedious. It's actually more fun because people actually learn to read defenses or understand how to stop a certain run with real strategy instead of madden ball.

[RGiles36]

Re: Madden NFL 16 Features All-New Controls to Dominate Air Supremacy

What game in this genre has reinvented itself?

Was referring to sports gaming genre. Games that have gone through reinvention as I know it: FIFA, MLB the Show, and NHL of the previous generation. It's quickly becoming ancient history as time moves on, but I recall each of those games being discussed years ago as games that went through transitions in just a couple cycles to become solid representations of the sports they were replicating.

A more recent example would be the WWE2K series. Has the game completely changed in its next gen debut? No. But the changes that were made are fundamental changes (real fatigue system, chain wrestling, refined and slower animations, etc). All of a sudden, you have perhaps the most realistic representation of pro wrestling gameplay in a very long time. And the current developer has only had the license 2-3 years.

Again, it's baffling how other games can turn this corner in a few years, while Tiburon is peace mealing the transition to a new era of Madden.

[aholbert32]

Re: Madden NFL 16 Features All-New Controls to Dominate Air Supremacy

This goes along with the penalty argument. Some people do want 15 minute quarters with or without accelerated clock. Some people want a full assortment of penalties. With Madden the only option available you should be able to do these things. Why included penalty sliders if they aren't going to work anyways?

For the most part, I don't think people are talking about stuff like they. They mean route based passing, realistic movement, gap assignments, on the field realism. No I don't think any of they is tedious. It's actually more fun because people actually learn to read defenses or understand how to stop a certain run with real strategy instead of madden ball.

Most people dont think that way. Take me. I'm an admin at OS (the biggest hardcore sports video game site) and I've played Madden since the early 90's. In all that time, I have never used a hot route. I've never done a offensive line adjustment. I rarely call audibles. Most people just want to call a play and then run the play. If they added gap assignments, I dont see me using it much. Now if it was automated in some way I think I would love it.

So I think the way EA sees it is why focus on things like gap assignment or route based passing that most fans either wont use or will find tedious. I dont agree with that approach but I understand it.

[kjcheezhead]

Re: Madden NFL 16 Features All-New Controls to Dominate Air Supremacy

Most people dont think that way. Take me. I'm an admin at OS (the biggest hardcore sports video game site) and I've played Madden since the early 90's. In all that time, I have never used a hot route. I've never done a offensive line adjustment. I rarely call audibles. Most people just want to call a play and then run the play. If they added gap assignments, I dont see me using it much. Now if it was automated in some way I think I would love it.

So I think the way EA sees it is why focus on things like gap assignment or route based passing that most fans either wont use or will find tedious. I dont agree with that approach but I understand it.

Completely disagree. I bet if you looked at EAs data that tracks all this stuff you would find an overwhelming majority that use hot routes and pre snap adjustments. You really have two types of players though. The SIM minded guys that try to use these features for realistic strategy and the online guys that look for loopholes where crashing a line one way and moving an lb in a certain place creates an unstoppable nano blitz or something to that effect.

The current simple approach caters to casuals and pick up and play types but at the cost of making it something tourney guys turn into a game that no longer resembles football at all.

[GiantBlue76]

Re: Madden NFL 16 Features All-New Controls to Dominate Air Supremacy

Was referring to sports gaming genre. Games that have gone through reinvention as I know it: FIFA, MLB the Show, and NHL of the previous generation. It's quickly becoming ancient history as time moves on, but I recall each of those games being discussed years ago as games that went through transitions in just a couple cycles to become solid representations of the sports they were replicating.

A more recent example would be the WWE2K series. Has the game completely changed in its next gen debut? No. But the changes that were made are fundamental changes (real fatigue system, chain wrestling, refined and slower animations, etc). All of a sudden, you have perhaps the most realistic representation of pro wrestling gameplay in a very long time. And the current developer has only had the license 2-3 years.

Again, it's baffling how other games can turn this corner in a few years, while Tiburon is peace mealing the transition to a new era of Madden.

They don't feel they should even bother doing this. From a strictly business point of view, Madden sells and makes millions, why would you rewrite anything? Rewrites are a risk. Without a competing product in this space for over a decade, there is absolutely no incentive to rebuild this franchise and, quite frankly, it's never going to happen. The folks who keep holding out hope for a new game engine are going to be disappointed every year. This game makes a lot of money for them, there is no other product that can beat down their door and force their hand therefore it's not happening. The implementation of what IS in the game is always very poor IMO, but as far as fixing this game it's a lost cause. There are some folks there who probably want this game to be a realistic game, but it's never going to reach the levels of NBA 2k, FIFA or the Show.

As someone who's played damn near every football game since the early, early 80s, I find it incredibly funny how Tiburon has somehow created this idea that realistic games aren't fun. The whole reason why we play these games is to put ourselves into the realm of pro sports, since we can't ACTUALLY be there. What makes a game incredibly FUN is when you see things in the game that closely resemble real life. Tiburon has messed this up so badly when it comes to Madden that you have created a game that is simply based on football, but lacks many of the things that make football what it is.

Football gaming has gone backwards in the last 10 years. Hardware has improved immensely, developer tools are more advanced than ever, expectations have risen - Madden has not progressed. You still can't even call a delayed blitz, a line stunt or assign a CB to a WR. There is no realistic injury system, the animations are terribly poor and out of context, the football still is tethered to players. Warping, sliding and shifting are at an all time high, adaptive AI is completely absent, the sidelines are essentially static and poorly done, there are no women or children in the crowd, penalties don't work/exist, flags are not thrown, no interactions between defenders and players on routes, no reach tackles, no ball physics, etc.

Every single thing listed there we've had in older games on older generation hardware (most of which was 2 generations ago). This doesn't even tap into the mess that off the field has become. However, the wind meter does finally work! Phew!

I just think it is silly that there is this perception that making a game realistic is not fun. That was invented by Tiburon, because all of the other sports games that are major players do not subscribe to this lunacy. NBA 2k is 1000x more complicated than madden could dream of being, but it allows for ANYONE to play and enjoy it. There are options that work, and people gravitate to it because it looks just like what they see on TV. Even kids that are 12 years old manage to play it (despite this ridiculous notion that it's far too hard or realistic to make it "fun").

[Greg Putnam]

Re: Madden NFL 16 Features All-New Controls to Dominate Air Supremacy

Is cpu vs cpu going to be in the game? If not, I'll not be buying.

[aholbert32]

Re: Madden NFL 16 Features All-New Controls to Dominate Air Supremacy

Completely disagree. I bet if you looked at EAs data that tracks all this stuff you would find an overwhelming majority that use hot routes and pre snap adjustments. You really have two types of players though. The SIM minded guys that try to use these features for realistic strategy and the online guys that look for loopholes where crashing a line one way and moving an lb in a certain place creates an unstoppable nano blitz or something to that effect.

The current simple approach caters to casuals and pick up and play types but at the cost of making it something tourney guys turn into a game that no longer resembles football at all.

I disagree. I bet if you asked the majority of people on this site "What is a Mike linebacker"......they would have no idea. Or a 3 technique DT. This is a site full of people who watch and play professional football games regularly but they dont get into the specifics of the sport. Those are the same people playing Madden.

Madden isnt just sim minded guys and tournament/online cheesers. Those guys are just more vocal (especially on OS). There are plenty of people who just want a football game that they can pick up and play and dont care about things they consider to be minutiae.

[shaunlmason]

Re: Madden NFL 16 Features All-New Controls to Dominate Air Supremacy

Completely disagree. I bet if you looked at EAs data that tracks all this stuff you would find an overwhelming majority that use hot routes and pre snap adjustments. You really have two types of players though. The SIM minded guys that try to use these features for realistic strategy and the online guys that look for loopholes where crashing a line one way and moving an lb in a certain place creates an unstoppable nano blitz or something to that effect.

The current simple approach caters to casuals and pick up and play types but at the cost of making it something tourney guys turn into a game that no longer resembles football at all.

I think some of the metrics would surprise you. I've heard some pretty shocking ones (the amount of people who start a CFM and never play a game, the people who play one H2H game online and never come back, etc.)

There is a definite balance required to make the game realistic yet accessible. Personally, I would approach it so the game defaults to "Rookie" out of the box, and that setting doesn't change ANY player ratings, instead it allows the CPU to help you by changing blocking assignments, alerting you to blitzes and showing you how to hot route to a check with me route, etc. If you chose to play on "All Madden" you get ZERO help.

I liken it to racing games and getting a racing line, or help breaking.

[shaunlmason]

Re: Madden NFL 16 Features All-New Controls to Dominate Air Supremacy

I disagree. I bet if you asked the majority of people on this site "What is a Mike linebacker"......they would have no idea. Or a 3 technique DT. This is a site full of people who watch and play professional football games regularly but they dont get into the specifics of the sport. Those are the same people playing Madden.

Madden isnt just sim minded guys and tournament/online cheesers. Those guys are just more vocal (especially on OS). There are plenty of people who just want a football game that they can pick up and play and dont care about things they consider to be minutiae.

Agreed. I play in leagues that are very fiercely competitive, and I still have the occasional person who doesn't understand why Vonn Miller wouldn't be a good 3-4 DE in real life. They have no concept of football outside of "ZOMG, he has high BSH doe".

[shaunlmason]

Re: Madden NFL 16 Features All-New Controls to Dominate Air Supremacy

Was referring to sports gaming genre. Games that have gone through reinvention as I know it: FIFA, MLB the Show, and NHL of the previous generation. It's quickly becoming ancient history as time moves on, but I recall each of those games being discussed years ago as games that went through transitions in just a couple cycles to become solid representations of the sports they were replicating.

A more recent example would be the WWE2K series. Has the game completely changed in its next gen debut? No. But the changes that were made are fundamental changes (real fatigue system, chain wrestling, refined and slower animations, etc). All of a sudden, you have perhaps the most realistic representation of pro wrestling gameplay in a very long time. And the current developer has only had the license 2-3 years.

Again, it's baffling how other games can turn this corner in a few years, while Tiburon is peace mealing the transition to a new era of Madden.

I think those transitions were longer than you think, and if you look at real hardcore fans of each of those sports (outside of The Show, which is the gold standard to me), there are people who feel the same way you feel about Madden. There are PLENTY of people who think FIFA is still an arcade game, or that NHL doesn't come close to approximating hockey.

[aholbert32]

Re: Madden NFL 16 Features All-New Controls to Dominate Air Supremacy

I think some of the metrics would surprise you. I've heard some pretty shocking ones (the amount of people who start a CFM and never play a game, the people who play one H2H game online and never come back, etc.)

There is a definite balance required to make the game realistic yet accessible. Personally, I would approach it so the game defaults to "Rookie" out of the box, and that setting doesn't change ANY player ratings, instead it allows the CPU to help you by changing blocking assignments, alerting you to blitzes and showing you how to hot route to a check with me route, etc. If you chose to play on "All Madden" you get ZERO help.

I liken it to racing games and getting a racing line, or help breaking.

I'm one of those people! Lol. I played over 100 games of Madden last year against the CPU. I played one online and it was against my cousin. Thats it. I assume there are plenty of people who are like me. I also know that there are plenty who arent.