Is The New Aggressive Catch Overpowered? (Possible Tweak Coming In Tuning Update?)

[4thQtrStre5S]

Re: Is The New Aggressive Catch Overpowered? (Possible Tweak Coming In Tuning Update?

Aggressive Catch is not over powered...In fact, I would say this has been one of the more balanced Maddens...

[Bat]

Re: Is The New Aggressive Catch Overpowered? (Possible Tweak Coming In Tuning Update?

Online it is a little over powered. Seen plenty of drops, Jimmy Graham in particular.

Offline on All-Pro it is way over powered. Easy to throw over 600 yards in a game.

However on All-Madden it plays pretty well. Big chance/big reward on deep passes.

[4thQtrStre5S]

Re: Is The New Aggressive Catch Overpowered? (Possible Tweak Coming In Tuning Update?

Online it is a little over powered. Seen plenty of drops, Jimmy Graham in particular.

Offline on All-Pro it is way over powered. Easy to throw over 600 yards in a game.

However on All-Madden it plays pretty well. Big chance/big reward on deep passes.

Are you throwing easily for over 600 yards? Are you generally an All-Madden player?

Reason I ask is, it is one thing to have another person roll up big pass yards on you, as it maybe a defense issue, as opposed to you getting all the big yards; then in regards to whether you generally play All-Madden, it matters because, as you pointed out it seemed balanced there, but over powered in All-Pro, so maybe All-MAdden is the level you should be at? Cause if EA nerfs the Aggressive catch in lower levels because All-Madden level players say it is over powered, then what happens is, the lower level players, like myself, are now faced with having an almost useless tool in aggressive catch as we were seeing a fair number of catches and drops....

^^Hope that makes sense...Essentially, anyone with All-Madden skills should realize it is all going to be so much easier in lower levels...

Maybe when people comment they should noted what level they usually play on, or of capable of playing...I can't play All-Madden, for example...I can play Pro and All-Pro, and so far things seem well balanced..

[graphster21]

Re: Is The New Aggressive Catch Overpowered? (Possible Tweak Coming In Tuning Update?

Aggressive catch is the least of the problems on defense. Zone defense on this game is just bad.

I am so sick of calling some version of cover 3 and watching a WR run free 60 yards downfield against 4 verticals because this game doesn't have any form of realistic pattern matching.

Man defense is fine, until the CPU/your opponent realizes that all they have to do is call verticals and then hit the HB out of the backfield, who is open every single time. Or they hit a TE on a corner route or a quick drag/slant and he is wide open.

Without appropriate pattern matching schemes on defense, there is no way to stop modern offenses and the kinds of route combinations that have evolved to destroy both man defense and traditional drop zone schemes.

You can come close to replicating a lot of the stuff that teams do in real life on offense, but defensively things are way outdated. Most defenses call some form of cover 3 or quarters coverage (or a split field coverage where they are playing cover 2 to one side and quarters coverage or man on the other side) as their primary coverages. There are teams that basically play quarters coverage (i.e. cover 4) almost every snap, and that is not close to viable on this game. Neither cover 3 or cover 4 is replicated well on this game because of the lack of realistic pattern matching. That is a big problem. Way bigger than these over the top one handed catches that everybody is crying about.

[SolidSquid]

Re: Is The New Aggressive Catch Overpowered? (Possible Tweak Coming In Tuning Update?

Aggressive catch is the least of the problems on defense. Zone defense on this game is just bad.

I am so sick of calling some version of cover 3 and watching a WR run free 60 yards downfield against 4 verticals because this game doesn't have any form of realistic pattern matching.

Man defense is fine, until the CPU/your opponent realizes that all they have to do is call verticals and then hit the HB out of the backfield, who is open every single time. Or they hit a TE on a corner route or a quick drag/slant and he is wide open.

Without appropriate pattern matching schemes on defense, there is no way to stop modern offenses and the kinds of route combinations that have evolved to destroy both man defense and traditional drop zone schemes.

You can come close to replicating a lot of the stuff that teams do in real life on offense, but defensively things are way outdated. Most defenses call some form of cover 3 or quarters coverage (or a split field coverage where they are playing cover 2 to one side and quarters coverage or man on the other side) as their primary coverages. There are teams that basically play quarters coverage (i.e. cover 4) almost every snap, and that is not close to viable on this game. Neither cover 3 or cover 4 is replicated well on this game because of the lack of realistic pattern matching. That is a big problem. Way bigger than these over the top one handed catches that everybody is crying about.

Defense is at a disadvantage bc they have not coded the AI to play a fluid zone, it's far too rigid. In madden guys get to and stay in their zones regardless of there being a receiving threat or not, instead of playing a zone and cheating towards the most imediate threat. IRL what makes zone defense effective is every defender has their eyes on the qb, when he STARTS his motion defender are then able to break on the ball. In madden no one reacts until the pass has been completed.

[NDAlum]

Re: Is The New Aggressive Catch Overpowered? (Possible Tweak Coming In Tuning Update?

Cant truly gauge then...

So the only way to truly gauge it is to play online randoms? If that's your point of view then you are correct.

I don't think the mechanic needs adjusting. I am content with it and have seen a great mix of results.


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[DreSki]

Re: Is The New Aggressive Catch Overpowered? (Possible Tweak Coming In Tuning Update?

Aggressive catch is the least of the problems on defense. Zone defense on this game is just bad.

I am so sick of calling some version of cover 3 and watching a WR run free 60 yards downfield against 4 verticals because this game doesn't have any form of realistic pattern matching.

Man defense is fine, until the CPU/your opponent realizes that all they have to do is call verticals and then hit the HB out of the backfield, who is open every single time. Or they hit a TE on a corner route or a quick drag/slant and he is wide open.

Without appropriate pattern matching schemes on defense, there is no way to stop modern offenses and the kinds of route combinations that have evolved to destroy both man defense and traditional drop zone schemes.

You can come close to replicating a lot of the stuff that teams do in real life on offense, but defensively things are way outdated. Most defenses call some form of cover 3 or quarters coverage (or a split field coverage where they are playing cover 2 to one side and quarters coverage or man on the other side) as their primary coverages. There are teams that basically play quarters coverage (i.e. cover 4) almost every snap, and that is not close to viable on this game. Neither cover 3 or cover 4 is replicated well on this game because of the lack of realistic pattern matching. That is a big problem. Way bigger than these over the top one handed catches that everybody is crying about.

Yes thank you. Someone finally understands what i was talking about when i made the thread saying 4 verts is crazy this year. But i absolutely agree zone is so bad this year. Man is decent but some routes are money way too often vs man coverage because of the way defenders move sometimes (drags, slants, and corner routes specifically) and its annoying as all hell.

I went to practice mode in my CFM and put my 92 rating man coverage corner on a TE running a corner route from that Z spot play and the TE beat the corner 10/10 times with me shading outside and that should not happen. Ever. Sometimes sure but not 10/10 times. Defense definitely needs a little help in the coverage department.

But as for the aggressive catches after playing a bit more All madden has aggressive catches perfect imo. On all pro, which is the default on online play, its op. Even playing the receiver Wrs come down with the ball vs double coverage more often then not. Its hard enough to play good defense sometimes with how strong offenses can be only for it to be 3rd and long and the offense gets bailed out by a long ball. Needs a slight tuning on all pro. Not by much tho.

[Jrocc23]

Is The New Aggressive Catch Overpowered? (Possible Tweak Coming In Tuning Upd...

From what I've seen, it's not OP at all. And I believe it should be left alone. I've only played DC online, no regular ranked matches, so my opinion could change once I do so and see how that goes.

I just don't like sometimes the WR/DB are too canned. Especially the one when the CB is beat, but he dives and hits him in the legs.

[X Fanatic]

Re: Is The New Aggressive Catch Overpowered? (Possible Tweak Coming In Tuning Update?

I would just like to ask that the devs at least wait until people learn how to make the proper defensive adjustments to defend these receivers before making a decision about turning this down.

Really and truly I would like for the complainers to show game footage and explain the defensive adjustments they are making to try and stop it. Then, I want to know how good their defensive personnel is and the height, spec catch, CIT, and the jumping rating of the receiver that caught the ball.

The people I see complaining(from Twitch streams) are running cover 3(not right to defend this), playing press coverage, not making any pre snap adjustments, not spotlighting receivers or putting up purple zones, have mediocre corners and safeties, and are complaining about Herman Moore, Finneran, and so on snagging on them in single coverage.

I've even seen someone try to double Herman Moore with a line backer(man to man double), then when both the line backer and the corner(who is playing PRESS COVERAGE btw) get burned they say the game is broken. Succumbing to these kind of complaints are dangerous to game balance. There are a lot of people playing DC, MUT, and ranked that know how to defend this with proper defensive adjustments so from what I've seen this mechanic doesn't need tweaking at all, people just need to learn what defensive adjustments to make.

Well I don't have much in the way of footage, but I can say that I can routinely put up within the 100-200 range of yardage with Anquan Boldin. Admittedly, he does have 99 catch in traffic. But he's only like 6'1". He's typically got an inch height advantage at best over his defender, if he's even taller than them at all. I don't feel that Anquan Boldin should be winning the vast majority of 1v1 matchups downfield on jump balls. Really, the only ones he's not successful at is when Kaepernick is inaccurate on the throw or get sacked before the throw gets off. Torrey Smith is slightly less successful on the aggressive catch, I'm guessing because he's got a lower catch in traffic rating. I'm not sure what it is off hand. But I'd say that I'm still in the +50% range with Torrey Smith on the jump balls as well. Oh btw I'm playing online head to head, all-madden as it's against friends and league mates. And I should state that when I'm talking about aggressive catch, I mean on streaks, go's, and fade routes. Over the middle on slants, crosses, drags, in's, posts, outs, all those other types of routes, yes, it seems pretty balanced. I'm talking about on the streaks downfield.

[booker21]

Re: Is The New Aggressive Catch Overpowered? (Possible Tweak Coming In Tuning Update?

I feel that is not op but in madden is very common to have good wr against bad ones. The AI doesn't adjust on their mismatches so in the end is easy to complete deep passes. I think for gameplay wise they need to tune it down. At least until they make the AI adapt to the weakness and strength. (Not soon)


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[takki]

Re: Is The New Aggressive Catch Overpowered? (Possible Tweak Coming In Tuning Update?

It's been close to a week now and my opinion is this:

It's slightly overpowered and needs a small tune down.

Offline, against the CPU, it really isn't a problem. The CPU seems to have trouble stopping it when I force it but I can break up CPU attempts without much issue.

Online, it's very abusable. Not even "playing the man" and double coverage is helping. If they have a player with high catch in traffic and high special catch, you encounter people who will just run 4 verts every play and will succeed 1/5 times.

You might say "Oh, that's great odds". Nope, because this is only if you play the ball. If you go for the interception, the receiver will posterize you 8/10 times, even in double coverage. The only thing you can do is play the ball and pray they don't catch it. There's no downside for cheesers online. If you go for the interception, they are guaranteed to rip the ball out of your CB's hands. And if you go for the receiver, they'll just drop it and get another down to try the same thing again.

I cannot control every player on the field and the CPU is borderline awful at zone coverage. Even in hail mary defense coverage, your safeties will chill in their zone and just let a receiver get behind them.

The air battle system is very wonky to me. I find that unless I have a clear chance to intercept the ball without the reciever contesting it (for example, if I jump the route), interceptions just plain do not work. Height, stats and positioning mean nothing. As long as the receiver has decent CIT and SPC, they will routinely get superhuman catches over elite coverage.

[rspencer86]

Re: Is The New Aggressive Catch Overpowered? (Possible Tweak Coming In Tuning Update?

Seeing this kind of thing too often. Just doesn't seem like there is much benefit to having a second defender in on the play.

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[2_headedmonster]

Re: Is The New Aggressive Catch Overpowered? (Possible Tweak Coming In Tuning Update?

Seeing this kind of thing too often. Just doesn't seem like there is much benefit to having a second defender in on the play.

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this is EXACTLY what i was seeing ...when players weren't reacting at all. The second defender needs to have just as much right to the ball as those in the canimation.

[Birdsfan11]

Re: Is The New Aggressive Catch Overpowered? (Possible Tweak Coming In Tuning Update?

My observations so far
1. The aggressive catch is overpowered. I've noticed that I've converted almost all deep throws I have attempted using the aggressive catch and this is with receivers in the sixties and low 70s. I can't even imagine someone like Calvin Johnson.
2. Like everyone else has said zone coverage is completely broken. Players won't leave there zones no matter what making it so easy to pick apart.
3. I've noticed that lots of times if you hit a receiver right as they catch the ball if they manage to hold on their legs just keep churning and they break the tackle way too often.
4. I've also found that crossing routes are slightly overpowered. If I ever need to score I can just throw bombs and crossing routes and it works every time.

[graphster21]

Re: Is The New Aggressive Catch Overpowered? (Possible Tweak Coming In Tuning Update?

Ineffective zones and overpowered TE corner routes (or really corner routes in general, but it seems to be worse for TE's because of the ratings mismatches when they are guarded by a linebacker) make it pretty easy to exploit CPU defenses, and make it frustrating to stop the CPU. I haven't played a lot online, so maybe those issues aren't as bad there (the CPU will always seem to find an open WR, and blitzing feels pointless because they always hit the open man before any pressure gets home).