Is The New Aggressive Catch Overpowered? (Possible Tweak Coming In Tuning Update?)

[2_headedmonster]

Re: Is The New Aggressive Catch Overpowered? (Possible Tweak Coming In Tuning Update?

I feel like EA should have brought back double team plays in the defensive playbooks along with "air supremacy". The other thing they overlooked was not giving defenders a third option. Receivers have three catch types, DBs should have three options as well, play receiver, pick play ball, and swat play ball.


Not including them was a huge mistake in my opinion, particularly because of how well they did on the DB/WR interactions, and the new passing tweaks.


Having said that, tuning "aggressive catch" at this point would be a mistake of equally gargantuan proportions. They did include "quick defensive coverage adjustments" which mean you can more readily adjust to double teams, and I imagine "spotlighting" receivers as well - though I don't know for sure as I don't have the game yet.




I am a little annoyed with all the whining about AC being OP, learn to play defense, watch some more football, because I know from watching a bunch of games last year that Dez Bryant was routinely doubled, or "bracketed". I bring this up to say, if, in the actual NFL he is that big a pain to command double teams and coverage "rolling", then he darn sure should be that way in Madden. Same for Megatron and blah blah blah...


You should not be able to consistently stop those impact type receivers in 1 on 1 situations, except for with equally brilliant DBs. You should have to double team them, roll coverage at them, and just in general be aware of where they line up every play.

lol....i found all of this quite entertaining.

[MoneyOvaHuds]

Re: Is The New Aggressive Catch Overpowered? (Possible Tweak Coming In Tuning Update?

Sim baller lays down the law on the topic

http://youtu.be/nLp080FXg64

[jfsolo]

Re: Is The New Aggressive Catch Overpowered? (Possible Tweak Coming In Tuning Update?

Sim baller lays down the law on the topic

http://youtu.be/nLp080FXg64

The safety play in that video was ghastly.

[EccentricMeat]

Re: Is The New Aggressive Catch Overpowered? (Possible Tweak Coming In Tuning Update?

The safety play in that video was ghastly.

I was going to post the same thing, he just waited to make a wrap-up tackle. No attempt at swatting the ball or jarring it loose with a big hit, no attempt at going for the easy pick, he just waited to wrap up the receiver after the catch.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[D81SKINS]

Re: Is The New Aggressive Catch Overpowered? (Possible Tweak Coming In Tuning Update?

Ok, so swat is still a separate option, but did it get the "attention" that the other "interactions" received? Meaning within the new "air supremacy" stuff did they rework the swat animations, are they as responsive, are they more effective (as they should be) than pick attempts, etc etc?


Easy completions against the AI, is quite frankly, a result of EA not including double team plays and a more robust "adaptive AI" system!
Not to mention that EA still has routes that destroy man coverage without respecting the relevant ratings. Just because you run a drag route against man coverage that should not be "automatically" open... If the defender in man coverage is clearly better than the receiver, and has the requisite quickness and cover skills then that route should not be open. The idea that permeates this, and other Madden chat sites, that certain routes are "zone killers" or man "coverage busters" is just plain ridiculous.


Defensive coordinators and defensive players are just too freaking good for that to be true.


Think of it this way, if you have Patrick Peterson in man cover vs Cole Beasley on a drag route ( without a pick) do you really think Beasley is going to toast Peterson??? Get out of here! Beasley is awesome, and he may win that battle within an individual play, but he isn't winning it 100 percent of the time, just because the route is "the right route vs man coverage". Heck, I doubt he would win that matchup situation 50 percent of the time.


Until EA, begins to go deeper, more complex within the logic, there will continue to be serious issues. As of Madden 15, EA still had included routes that were "immune" to press coverage, irrespective of the matchup ratings involved - meaning even a WR with 60 release would get off the LOS free vs press from a 99 press CB . Meaning no matter the adjustments you made the DB would never disrupt the route. Such a route does not exist in the NFL, I assure you. And I am not talking motioned receivers or screen patterns (the latter of which would result in an audible most likely), but regular 9 routes, or posts, or wheel routes.


I don't think the AI issue can be fixed without adaptive AI. In addition, the CPU (as far as I know) does not ever defensively hot route into double team coverage, or spotlight receivers, and it certainly doesn't shadow receivers in the way a user can. That being the case, we will likely have balance issues vs the AI until they add in double team plays that the CPU could then utilize, hopefully with some intelligent tendency based adaptive AI...

I just got finished playing the Cowboy's vs my Skins w/ All-Pro default and BELIEVE ME Cole Beasley is not doing anything remotely close to this.
Actually the exact opposite happened! It was a 3rd and long, I went cover 0, brought the heat, play the sticks, and they ran a medium crossing route. Cole B. Goes up for an aggressive catch, I counter by playing the WR, my safety knocks the ball out, and while Beasley is coming down from his high point jump my other safety hit sticks him in mid air and POOR BEASE is down for the count. I even played man much more than M15 and just as many good plays, and even held Dez to 3 catches 79yds and 1 td. Romo targeted Dez at least 10x. Now Dez did still end up w/ the game clinching td, but it wasn't a spec. Catch, he just ran through 2 arm tackles. Classic Dez not going down after the catch and took it to the house, late in the 4th.
Back to the defensive play on Beasley,
It's probably the 1st time in awhile that I've felt like I just laid a knockout punch in a football game. Last time I recall feeling this good about playing pass D was back on PS2 w/ Sean Taylor roaming the middle, and that's when the hit stick was introduced!

I would wait to play the game b4 getting too outlandish w/ how it plays. This game is WAY better in the gameplay area than M15, trust!

[NDAlum]

Re: Is The New Aggressive Catch Overpowered? (Possible Tweak Coming In Tuning Update?

Oh my...as others have said: the safety play in that video? That is very very discouraging. That's an elite safety back there...make a play on the dang ball one time.

[X Fanatic]

Re: Is The New Aggressive Catch Overpowered? (Possible Tweak Coming In Tuning Update?

My opinion is that yes, it is overpowered. My experiences are in online head to head play so far, unranked. With the difficulty level on All-Madden, Larry Fitzgerald just had 233 yards receiving on the aggressive catch. Carson Palmer all in all threw for 556 yards and 7 TD's. Didn't count how many passes were aggressive catches, but most of them were. This was with double coverage over the top as well.

This is just one example, but most of my head to head games online have played out rather similarly with guys spamming aggressive catch deep with regular success, myself and my opponents both.

[SmashMan]

Re: Is The New Aggressive Catch Overpowered? (Possible Tweak Coming In Tuning Update?

Regarding safety play in that video, is there a trait that governs play man/ball? Not that any safety would strictly choose one or the other as frequently shown in the video, just curious on the player trait aspect to see if that's something we could potentially alter.

[MustangLife03]

Re: Is The New Aggressive Catch Overpowered? (Possible Tweak Coming In Tuning Update?

I think with Madden being basically a house of cards. Its impossible to make it perfect. I haven't played yet (PS4 here) seems like its the best yet. And probably some of that coding has been a couple years in development I would say. But maybe Safety logic in that video above isn't perfect but I don't think its to terribly bad. I'm sure Madden coders have tried and tested more than we as a group could even imagine and tried improving the Safety play on deep throws like that. But it could have been overpowered and they backed it down. CB plays seems really good on that considering it was Calvin Johnson and jump balls I'm gonna bet on him even if its on Sherman or somebody else.

[ChaseB]

Re: Is The New Aggressive Catch Overpowered? (Possible Tweak Coming In Tuning Update?

Oh my...as others have said: the safety play in that video? That is very very discouraging. That's an elite safety back there...make a play on the dang ball one time.

Regarding safety play in that video, is there a trait that governs play man/ball? Not that any safety would strictly choose one or the other as frequently shown in the video, just curious on the player trait aspect to see if that's something we could potentially alter.

I agree the safety is hanging out too much, only thing I would be interested in is partly the trait, but also seeing if Earl Thomas is equally as passive. Chancellor is a very solid safety, but obviously I'm trusting him more underneath as Earl Thomas being a freak in that Cover 3 press the Seahawks play is the bigger reason passes over the top don't work out.

[GameBreaker35]

Re: Is The New Aggressive Catch Overpowered? (Possible Tweak Coming In Tuning Update?

I agree the safety is hanging out too much, only thing I would be interested in is partly the trait, but also seeing if Earl Thomas is equally as passive. Chancellor is a very solid safety, but obviously I'm trusting him more underneath as Earl Thomas being a freak in that Cover 3 press the Seahawks play is the bigger reason passes over the top don't work out.

I'm pretty sure that the safety's play is programed this way on purpose. Remember, in Madden the ball is tethered to the receiver after release, so the receiver doesn't have the ability to actually adjust to the ball in flight - unlike his defensive counterparts in coverage. In order to keep the Saftey from undercutting every pass, I'm 99% sure they had to alter the behavior of the defender. It might also have to do with the technological constraints of more than two players in a WR/DB interaction.

It's one of the reasons I think Madden needs route-based passing mechanics that have the ball acting independently of the receiver.

[Ronnie brown23]

Re: Is The New Aggressive Catch Overpowered? (Possible Tweak Coming In Tuning Update?

http://youtu.be/0nPQdCZSwoA

How to stop the aggressive catch

[Ky3217]

Re: Is The New Aggressive Catch Overpowered? (Possible Tweak Coming In Tuning Update?

In my own experience, which is 99% in a CFM Im doing where I have Julio Jones and AJ Green on my team, it doesn't seem to be overpowered at all. Granted I do have Drew Stanton tossing passes to my wide outs, but still.

edit: This is on All Pro with default sliders

[Skyboxer]

Re: Is The New Aggressive Catch Overpowered? (Possible Tweak Coming In Tuning Update?

So far I also think it is not OP at all. I've gotten burned by bad matchups but when I plan around a "Star" and make good D calls and adjustments you can stop them. At the expense of leaving other areas vulnerable at times but that's how it should be.
Just my .02

[ehh]

Re: Is The New Aggressive Catch Overpowered? (Possible Tweak Coming In Tuning Update?

I've played three games on All Pro and it seems a little overpowered when you have a great WR. That being said, as others have pointed out, safety play is an issue and it's too easy to get 1v1 with your elite WR downfield.

I've had mixed results with Brandon Marshall, who I figured would be a good test case as a big WR who's not elite but still pretty good. He's made some nice catches but also had quite a few jump balls that he didn't win. Not sure how much of it is on the QB's ratings since Geno obviously stinks.

Randall Cobb was an animal with aggressive catch in the one GB vs CLE game I played. He basically made the ODB catch and then another similar one. Will say that his catches were much more acrobatic than Marshall's which is cool but also may just be a coincidence since it's a small sample size thus far.