Madden Needs to Implement the 2K VIP System

Collapse

Recommended Videos

Collapse
X
 
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • jb12780
    Hall of Fame
    • Oct 2008
    • 10665

    #16
    Re: Madden Needs to Implement the 2K VIP System

    Any coach who would like to remain an NFL coach would probably refrain from a fake punt in their own endzone.

    Sent from my LGLS991 using Tapatalk
    GT:jb12780
    PSN:jb12780

    Comment

    • BezO
      MVP
      • Jul 2004
      • 4414

      #17
      Re: Madden Needs to Implement the 2K VIP System

      I couldn't care less how folks play. I blame this particular play on EA for poor, nonexistent gunner interaction.
      Shout out to The Watcher! Where you at bruh?

      Comment

      • mestevo
        Gooney Goo Goo
        • Apr 2010
        • 19556

        #18
        Re: Madden Needs to Implement the 2K VIP System

        They could spend a whole cycle on contextual callouts and tendencies in the game.
        • Display team needs overall and as each pick is selected in the draft - creates urgency and a reason to trade up. Indirect feedback from other teams that my ploy to jump ahead was successful. @Rapsheet reports the Raiders are unhappy they weren't fast enough to grab the fastest guy on their board #Chiefs #Raiders #NFLDraft2019
        • Coaching and GM personalities dictating how you as a coach need to play your team and the kinds of players you draft, or you as a GM the goals you set and the style you want to play dictating the coaches that might want to work for you.
        • Created coaches from friends' franchises able to be organically hired in your CFM - bringing over their habits and tendencies
        • Tendencies organically updated based on Coach and personnel as season progresses w/ commentator cues when injuries impact their traditional tendencies (not always run heavy when always behind and/or RB is hurt, RB stepping up / opportunity)


        So much more. To a degree I want what's in the OP I guess, but as purely a CFM and rarely H2H I need so much more. For all I know some of it is already there, it just needs the UI work and the legwork to make the data accessible (draft especially).

        I don't think the OP is a big ask, I'm sure some arcade-play-mitigation could be done to help the online game. I just think if they went that far with it, a few things similar to the above would probably go along with it to help even more to justify the effort and make it a huge deal for a number of types of players.

        Who knows, console parity reasons could be why we don't have the equivalent of drivatars in Madden.
        Last edited by mestevo; 07-14-2016, 02:28 PM.

        Comment

        • Pappy Knuckles
          LORDTHUNDERBIRD
          • Sep 2004
          • 15966

          #19
          Re: Madden Needs to Implement the 2K VIP System

          Mestevo is taking it to another level and I can dig it. I'm an online guy, but those CFM additions would be lovely. Those type of things could persuade me to dive into CPU games more often than I do. Being able to load up VIP profiles to play against was awesome in old 2K games. Added a lot of depth.

          Comment

          • JayhawkerStL
            Banned
            • Apr 2004
            • 3644

            #20
            Re: Madden Needs to Implement the 2K VIP System

            Originally posted by Pappy Knuckles
            The fact that some of you are defending the fake punt in that situation as cool, shows me why Madden online is the way it is. It's a land where nobody trusts their D and goes for it on every 4th down.
            It's really not. But that is certainly a narrative some Madden gamers would like to promote. I'm not saying that you never see it. But it is the exception, not the rule.

            Comment

            • Pappy Knuckles
              LORDTHUNDERBIRD
              • Sep 2004
              • 15966

              #21
              Re: Madden Needs to Implement the 2K VIP System

              Originally posted by Jay D
              It's really not. But that is certainly a narrative some Madden gamers would like to promote. I'm not saying that you never see it. But it is the exception, not the rule.
              I have a hard time believing that guys are giving you competitive, sim games the majority of the time. Either you've grown to accept the things you're seeing or you are truly a lucky one. I haven't really messed with MUT or DC against randoms, so I can't speak on those modes, but ranked truly is a cesspool of which I speak.

              Sent from my SCH-S960L using Tapatalk

              Comment

              • ForUntoOblivionSoar∞
                MVP
                • Dec 2009
                • 4682

                #22
                Re: Madden Needs to Implement the 2K VIP System

                Originally posted by Pappy Knuckles
                The fact that some of you are defending the fake punt in that situation as cool, shows me why Madden online is the way it is. It's a land where nobody trusts their D and goes for it on every 4th down.
                I'm not defending it just pointing out that at least the Rams make calls like that, but honestly they are in a unique situation since their punter is a former quarterback.

                That said, I agree 100% with you that if people could trust defense, they would punt more. There are just too many money plays on offense. If redzone offense were closer to real life you'd see far less idiotic 4th down decisions.
                Originally posted by Therebelyell626
                I am going to create a team called "the happy town fundament rapscallions" and hurt your already diminishing image
                https://forums.operationsports.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2049813056

                Last edited by your mom; 06-06-2006 at 6:06 PM.

                Comment

                • JayhawkerStL
                  Banned
                  • Apr 2004
                  • 3644

                  #23
                  Re: Madden Needs to Implement the 2K VIP System

                  Originally posted by Pappy Knuckles
                  I have a hard time believing that guys are giving you competitive, sim games the majority of the time. Either you've grown to accept the things you're seeing or you are truly a lucky one. I haven't really messed with MUT or DC against randoms, so I can't speak on those modes, but ranked truly is a cesspool of which I speak.

                  Sent from my SCH-S960L using Tapatalk
                  Salary Cap MUT and DC have monopolized gamers that actually care. Playing randoms in versus is a big waste of time. But in MUT and DC, you have to spend coins you earn to play, and you get more for winning. So all that's left in versus are guys that don't give a hoot.

                  You still probably won't like it because it is just 4 minute quarters. But with accelerated clock turned off, and plenty of time outs, you still get about 60 plays a game, as opposed to the 120 that is real life. Games take about 40 minutes, so I'm not really interested in longer quarters.

                  There is a greater sense of urgency with the shorter quarters, and that increases the pace. But you can force punts, chew clock with a lead, And really, make all the same strategic decisions you make in a sim game. Many do not balance this well, and that makes them predictable. Guys that pass a lot are easy to beat. Guys that go for it on fourth too often are easy to beat.

                  But I have had hundreds of really competitive, fun games. My record is probably hair under .500. I'm not really that great. I don't ever hot route receivers. My replay defensive stuff is simple. If I play a guy that is really good, who audibles to exploit my denies, I start audibling at the last second just to throw him off, which is way more successful than you might think.

                  I've got well over 650 hours into Madden. Most of it is in MUT and DC, but I've been playing a lot of CFM lately. During the season I do Play Now with the Chiefs and whoever they are playing in real life.

                  And prior to Madden 15, I probably never played more than 10 hours of any Madden game. I hated it. I boycotted EA after their exclusivity deal. I played seasons of APFB 2K8. Madden 15 didn't become the perfect game. But it did become a game that was fun to play, and had balance.

                  Comment

                  • Hooe
                    Hall Of Fame
                    • Aug 2002
                    • 21555

                    #24
                    Re: Madden Needs to Implement the 2K VIP System

                    Originally posted by Pappy Knuckles
                    The fact that some of you are defending the fake punt in that situation as cool, shows me why Madden online is the way it is. It's a land where nobody trusts their D and goes for it on every 4th down.
                    Has nothing to do with not trusting one's defense.

                    1 - It is impossible to create the real-life consequences of a missed fourth down in a video game because a video game user's livelihood isn't on the line with every play call. As such, by default, video game users are going to have a tendency to be more aggressive.

                    2 - Jay D makes some great points about the nature of Madden online games, that they are shorter in duration and so there is less time to be conservative. There are fewer total plays and therefore each individual play is more important, and every way to score points in football requires that one first possess the football.

                    3 - It's a fake punt. Fake punts are part of the game, and are designed to surprise the opponent. Your team wasn't prepared for it in this situation, and so the play accomplished its goal. How is that the game's fault? How is that the online community's fault? Presumably if you had continued the game, maybe you'd have called PR Safe Man next time. If this guy called five fake punts in a game, sure then we can have a conversation about "not sim", but one fake punt in isolation doesn't move the needle.

                    4 - As I've posted many times here and elsewhere, all the analytics types who have studied fourth downs have concluded that NFL head coaches are across-the-board too conservative on fourth down calls to an extreme degree. It's new wave football thinking, sure, but the math as calculated originally by Brian Burke (Advanced Football Analytics) says going for it on 4th and 3 anywhere on the field beyond your own 12 yard line is the strategically correct call. On this play your opponent was on his own 11 so the math says he took a strategic risk, granted, but that margin is much closer than conventional wisdom dictates.

                    Comment

                    • Pappy Knuckles
                      LORDTHUNDERBIRD
                      • Sep 2004
                      • 15966

                      #25
                      Re: Madden Needs to Implement the 2K VIP System

                      Originally posted by CM Hooe
                      Has nothing to do with not trusting one's defense.

                      1 - It is impossible to create the real-life consequences of a missed fourth down in a video game because a video game user's livelihood isn't on the line with every play call. As such, by default, video game users are going to have a tendency to be more aggressive.

                      2 - Jay D makes some great points about the nature of Madden online games, that they are shorter in duration and so there is less time to be conservative. There are fewer total plays and therefore each individual play is more important.

                      3 - It's a fake punt. Fake punts are part of the game, and are designed to surprise the opponent. Your team wasn't prepared for it in this situation, and so the play accomplished its goal. How is that the game's fault? How is that the online community's fault? Presumably if you had continued the game, maybe you'd have called PR Safe Man next time. If this guy called five fake punts in a game, sure then we can have a conversation about "not sim", but one fake punt in isolation doesn't move the needle.

                      4 - As I've posted many times here and elsewhere, all the analytics types who have studied fourth downs have concluded that NFL head coaches are across-the-board too conservative on fourth down calls to an extreme degree. It's new wave football thinking, sure, but the math as calculated originally by Brian Burke (Advanced Football Analytics) says going for it on 4th and 3 anywhere on the field beyond your own 12 yard line is the strategically correct call. On this play your opponent was on his own 11 so the math says he took a strategic risk, granted, but that margin is much closer than conventional wisdom dictates.
                      You've typed a lot and made it sound good, but I'm not down with it at all. You and others that agree with the type of play shown in the clip I posted are people that I'm trying to avoid online. A VIP system would help me stay away from you guys. Going for it pinned deep in the redzone, with a lead in the 2nd quarter isn't the type of style I want to play against.

                      Comment

                      • bucky60
                        Banned
                        • Jan 2008
                        • 3288

                        #26
                        Re: Madden Needs to Implement the 2K VIP System

                        Originally posted by CM Hooe
                        1 - It is impossible to create the real-life consequences of a missed fourth down in a video game
                        A video game can provide real-life consequences in providing real-life success rates.

                        Originally posted by CM Hooe
                        3 - It's a fake punt. Fake punts are part of the game, and are designed to surprise the opponent. Your team wasn't prepared for it in this situation, and so the play accomplished its goal. How is that the game's fault?
                        The problem isn't that someone chooses to fake punt, the problem is the frequency of success in Madden. Make the consequences match actual NFL percentage success rates.

                        Originally posted by CM Hooe
                        4 - As I've posted many times here and elsewhere, all the analytics types who have studied fourth downs have concluded that NFL head coaches are across-the-board too conservative on fourth down calls to an extreme degree. It's new wave football thinking, sure, but the math as calculated originally by Brian Burke (Advanced Football Analytics) says going for it on 4th and 3 anywhere on the field beyond your own 12 yard line is the strategically correct call. On this play your opponent was on his own 11 so the math says he took a strategic risk, granted, but that margin is much closer than conventional wisdom dictates.
                        First, did Burke model fake punts or teams going for it on fourth down? Makes a big difference.

                        Second, whatever Brian Burke calculates in his modeling, I want to see success rates match NFL success rates for distance to first down (both going for it and fake punts). How often is a fake punt successful in the NFL? and against what punt defenses called by the opposing team.

                        Comment

                        • Hooe
                          Hall Of Fame
                          • Aug 2002
                          • 21555

                          #27
                          Re: Madden Needs to Implement the 2K VIP System

                          Originally posted by bucky60
                          A video game can provide real-life consequences in providing real-life success rates.
                          Those consequences are limited to what happens on the field in that game. Unlike a real-life head coach, if I miss a 4th down in Madden, I'm not going to get fired from my game developer job. Without that massive negative consequence, the downside to not converting on 4th down is significantly less, which incentivizes the call to go for it. It's simple psychology.

                          The problem isn't that someone chooses to fake punt, the problem is the frequency of success in Madden. Make the consequences match actual NFL percentage success rates.
                          We have no idea what the success rates are for fake punts in Madden.

                          How often is a fake punt successful in the NFL? and against what punt defenses called by the opposing team.
                          Sixty seconds of Googling - here's a graph of real-life NFL 4th down success rates from 2000-2011, for "go for it" and "kicking play fake" calls. (source: Drive-By Football)



                          Based on the data, fake punts and field goals with a distance-to-go of 3 yards of less succeed greater than 50% of the time, and faking a punt or field goal on 4th and 1 is better than a 60% chance.

                          Comment

                          • bucky60
                            Banned
                            • Jan 2008
                            • 3288

                            #28
                            Re: Madden Needs to Implement the 2K VIP System

                            Originally posted by CM Hooe
                            Those consequences are limited to what happens on the field in that game.
                            And I believe that's what people are asking for out of the game. Realistic outcomes.

                            Originally posted by CM Hooe
                            We have no idea what the success rates are for fake punts in Madden.
                            Not sure what this has to do with anything. We shouldn't have to know.

                            But those programming the game must (and should) know how their calculations/algorithms are setup for fake punts and 4th down attempts.

                            Originally posted by CM Hooe
                            Sixty seconds of Googling - here's a graph of real-life NFL 4th down success rates from 2000-2011, for "go for it" and "kicking play fake" calls. (source: Drive-By Football)



                            Based on the data, fake punts and field goals with a distance-to-go of 3 yards of less succeed greater than 50% of the time, and faking a punt or field goal on 4th and 1 is better than a 60% chance.
                            If this graph is accurate, then I want Madden to have the same kind of success/failure rates. Notice how the success rate diminishes as yardage increases. Someone going for it on 4th and over 5 yards should rarely succeed. When Madden follows this model (or whatever model is accurate), players won't go for it so often, and the guy looking for something realistic will have an easier time finding someone to play against.

                            Comment

                            • Big FN Deal
                              Banned
                              • Aug 2011
                              • 5993

                              #29
                              Re: Madden Needs to Implement the 2K VIP System

                              Let me start off with I completely agree with the OP, there needs to be some system in Madden which allows every gamers general tendencies to be exposed so all gamers can better find the type of match ups they enjoy. Like someone else mentioned, the game presumably already tracks this data, so hopefully it's just matter of figuring out how to display it.

                              I typed out some other stuff about going for it on 4th down in Madden before remembering what actually happened in the video. After doing so, imo, what happened in the video and gamers going for a 4th down in general is apples and oranges. Focusing just on the video, like others have said, there wasn't anything cheese or AI exploitative about that fake punt and even with a VIP type system, I wouldn't avoid a gamer just because the data shows they have tried fake punts. Granted, if it was some high percentage of fake punts I probably wouldn't bother playing them but there is nothing in this specific video to suggest that's the case. To be clear, I completely agree that there should be a system like that and that 4th down situations aren't represented well in Madden, however I don't think the situation in the video applies to either one.

                              Spoiler

                              Comment

                              • Armor and Sword
                                The Lama
                                • Sep 2010
                                • 21798

                                #30
                                Re: Madden Needs to Implement the 2K VIP System

                                Pappy wants to play a person who uses the typical every week logic a head coach on Sunday would.

                                That means not calling a fake punt in your own endzone in the 2nd quarter of a game you are leading 7-0.

                                I agree with him. That particular play on that video is plain Hall of Fame Velveeta Cheese. If the defense is "well it's a video game" and "no consequences for making such a bizzare call" then that is exactly the type of online player a lot of us try to avoid. Thank goodness for PSN friends, and simulation style leagues where that **** would never fly...nor stick LOL.
                                Now Playing on PS5:
                                CFB 26 Hurricanes/Fresno State Year 2
                                MLB The Show 25 - 2025 Yankees Year 1
                                MLB The Show 25 1985 Yankees Year 1
                                Oblivion Remaster



                                Follow me on Twitch
                                https://www.twitch.tv/armorandsword

                                Comment

                                Working...