Let's put it to a vote: Do we need two game settings? (Sim vs online)

[jfsolo]

Re: Let's put it to a vote: Do we need two game settings? (Sim vs online)

Games had simulation and arcade modes 25 years ago. madden should be able to keep up with the nineties.

I doubt you will ever see the setting "arcade" in a football or basketball game again. Don't want to label gamers that way now.

[Brightline]

Re: Let's put it to a vote: Do we need two game settings? (Sim vs online)

A list of things that should be in the sim mode that really ought not be online or a part of "esports"

1) weather conditions
2) missed assignments/wrong routes/blown coverages/bad blitz pickups
3) bad throws
4) missed kicks
5) bad snaps
6) dropped open throws
7) penalties
8) limiting hot routes
9) fatigue

[Hooe]

Re: Let's put it to a vote: Do we need two game settings? (Sim vs online)

It seems then that the solution for a quick fix would have online games be in rookie mode with offensive sliders and special teams accuracy at 100. Every pass on the mark every catch made and field goals absolutely automatic and then give us sliders that work.

No, this is not a tenable solution for very obvious gameplay balance reasons.

Just like using dice rolls exclusively, making the game painfully easy to win also minimizes the impact of stick skills on the outcome of the contest. As such your facetious proposal benefits neither tournament nor "sim" users.

[Hooe]

Re: Let's put it to a vote: Do we need two game settings? (Sim vs online)

Also:

Their sim engine in some areas doesn't even match what the Commodore 64 had in the 1980's.

This line of posting ceases now. We're going to keep this thread constructive and not have any agenda posting or trolling. This is the only warning for all posters in the thread.

Thanks.

[adembroski]

Re: Let's put it to a vote: Do we need two game settings? (Sim vs online)

What we need is an extensive and powerful tuning tool. I think as sim guys, we dig so deeply into the game anyways, building the game for competitive online play but giving us the tools to make it our own is an acceptable option.

There was no support for a better slider system when I was there, but having witnessed the arrival of the core guys on the current team, I have to believe they'd be more open too it.

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[Hooe]

Re: Let's put it to a vote: Do we need two game settings? (Sim vs online)

What we need is an extensive and powerful tuning tool. I think as sim guys, we dig so deeply into the game anyways, building the game for competitive online play but giving us the tools to make it our own is an acceptable option.

There was no support for a better slider system when I was there, but having witnessed the arrival of the core guys on the current team, I have to believe they'd be more open too it.

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I wonder if Tiburon would consider creating an interface to expose the values stored in their tuning update files to the end user to explode the amount of gameplay balancing values we had available to adjust.

Not sure to what extent these things are actually in their tuner files, but I'm imagining being able to tune gameplay balance in a bunch of detailed ways. For example, for passing alone maybe we could adjust accuracy for passes at all three accuracy levels, the proximity a defender needs to be before a quarterback "feels pressure", the accuracy penalty for "feeling pressure", the accuracy penalty for throwing off the run / off back foot, the effectiveness of playaction, etc. etc. rather than just one catch-all "QB Accuracy" slider. Heck maybe they even add some additional settings which by default are set at "zero" values but we could add in; for example, maybe we could add in an AWR modifier for all passing accuracy checks (but that would default to zero for non-Franchise play, presumably).

They'd probably still reasonably require a set of default tuning values for online ranked games / Ultimate Team / Draft Champions, and maybe they risk allowing us to basically "break the game" if we were to adjust the tuning values to rather extreme settings, but allowing this amount of fine tuning for Franchise players might be something this community would welcome.

[fistofrage]

Re: Let's put it to a vote: Do we need two game settings? (Sim vs online)

No, this is not a tenable solution for very obvious gameplay balance reasons.

Just like using dice rolls exclusively, making the game painfully easy to win also minimizes the impact of stick skills on the outcome of the contest. As such your facetious proposal benefits neither tournament nor "sim" users.

I wasn't being facetious. It would be on the defenders stick skills to get to the QB, intercept the ball, swat the pass away, make the strip tackle, or time the jump to block the kicks. Don't make it so the rest of the team sits around like zombies, but if you want an interception, or even an incomplete pass, the user defender would have to force it for the most part.

The offensive players stick skills would come into play with timing of the user catch and running back moves. But all passes would be on the hands and no drops unless forced by the user opponent. No fumbles unless directly caused by stick skills, etc.

[adembroski]

Re: Let's put it to a vote: Do we need two game settings? (Sim vs online)

I wonder if Tiburon would consider creating an interface to expose the values stored in their tuning update files to the end user to explode the amount of gameplay balancing values we had available to adjust.

Not sure to what extent these things are actually in their tuner files, but I'm imagining being able to tune gameplay balance in a bunch of detailed ways. For example, for passing alone maybe we could adjust accuracy for passes at all three accuracy levels, the proximity a defender needs to be before a quarterback "feels pressure", the accuracy penalty for "feeling pressure", the accuracy penalty for throwing off the run / off back foot, the effectiveness of playaction, etc. etc. rather than just one catch-all "QB Accuracy" slider. Heck maybe they even add some additional settings which by default are set at "zero" values but we could add in; for example, maybe we could add in an AWR modifier for all passing accuracy checks (but that would default to zero for non-Franchise play, presumably).

They'd probably still reasonably require a set of default tuning values for online ranked games / Ultimate Team / Draft Champions, and maybe they risk allowing us to basically "break the game" if we were to adjust the tuning values to rather extreme settings, but allowing this amount of fine tuning for Franchise players might be something this community would welcome.

The tuner doesn't cover everything in detail, though since they're actually using it it possible has been expanded.

Hell, if someone could crack the save we might be able to do it. It's just an XML file.

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[ojai4keith]

Re: Let's put it to a vote: Do we need two game settings? (Sim vs online)

Yes of course

[JayhawkerStL]

Re: Let's put it to a vote: Do we need two game settings? (Sim vs online)

It seems then that the solution for a quick fix would have online games be in rookie mode with offensive sliders and special teams accuracy at 100. Every pass on the mark every catch made and field goals absolutely automatic and then give us sliders that work.

As someone that plays mostly MUT and DC, I don't recognize the game you are describing. I know that it is fun to paint us as dolts, but it just makes you look bad.

[fistofrage]

Re: Let's put it to a vote: Do we need two game settings? (Sim vs online)

As someone that plays mostly MUT and DC, I don't recognize the game you are describing. I know that it is fun to paint us as dolts, but it just makes you look bad.

Not painting anyone as anything. Based on the developer tweets I've read, online competitive players don't want randomness or dice rolls. I get that. If I'm playing a shooter, I don't want a grenade that I threw to slip out of my hand and land at my feet or my gun to randomly jam.

It seems that the developers hands are tied in this regard. What I meant was for the online competitive crowd to have everything be on the money UNLESS the user opponent disrupts it. Rookie mode would be that option, not because I think someone is incapable of playing but because if someone has good stick skills it's going to show. It's easy against the AI, but not easy against a good stick player who uses all the moves and switches players timely.

[JayhawkerStL]

Re: Let's put it to a vote: Do we need two game settings? (Sim vs online)

Not painting anyone as anything. Based on the developer tweets I've read, online competitive players don't want randomness or dice rolls. I get that. If I'm playing a shooter, I don't want a grenade that I threw to slip out of my hand and land at my feet or my gun to randomly jam.

It seems that the developers hands are tied in this regard. What I meant was for the online competitive crowd to have everything be on the money UNLESS the user opponent disrupts it. Rookie mode would be that option, not because I think someone is incapable of playing but because if someone has good stick skills it's going to show. It's easy against the AI, but not easy against a good stick player who uses all the moves and switches players timely.

You are wrong, and are wrong in such obvious and extreme ways that you are either being facetious or incapable of holding a rational conversation on this topic.

[Hooe]

Re: Let's put it to a vote: Do we need two game settings? (Sim vs online)

Not painting anyone as anything. Based on the developer tweets I've read, online competitive players don't want randomness or dice rolls. I get that. If I'm playing a shooter, I don't want a grenade that I threw to slip out of my hand and land at my feet or my gun to randomly jam.

It seems that the developers hands are tied in this regard. What I meant was for the online competitive crowd to have everything be on the money UNLESS the user opponent disrupts it. Rookie mode would be that option, not because I think someone is incapable of playing but because if someone has good stick skills it's going to show. It's easy against the AI, but not easy against a good stick player who uses all the moves and switches players timely.

The problem with your suggestion is that just making all CPU-controlled players brain-dead removes all skill from play-calling, which is half the battle in Madden (the other half obviously being stick skills). Tournament style players want to engage in BOTH a battle of stick skills and the mental chess match of play-calling, and a user can only control one of eleven players on the field at a given time. The other ten CPU players not under user control must still competently and predictably do their jobs and play assignment football.

For example, I expect that if I play Cover 4 that my CPU-controlled defensive backs will competently defend against four verticals without my needing to user the defensive back to swat the pass. I expect that I will allow an underneath pass and that my players' ratings in combination with my mastery of the tackling controls will dictate my ability to rally to the underneath receiver and tackle him before he reaches the first down marker.

[fistofrage]

Re: Let's put it to a vote: Do we need two game settings? (Sim vs online)

The problem with your suggestion is that just making all CPU-controlled players brain-dead removes all skill from play-calling, which is half the battle in Madden (the other half obviously being stick skills). Tournament style players want to engage in BOTH a battle of stick skills and the mental chess match of play-calling, and a user can only control one of eleven players on the field at a given time. The other ten CPU players not under user control must still competently and predictably do their jobs and play assignment football.

For example, I expect that if I play Cover 4 that my CPU-controlled defensive backs will competently defend against four verticals without my needing to user the defensive back to swat the pass. I expect that I will allow an underneath pass and that my players' ratings in combination with my mastery of the tackling controls will dictate my ability to rally to the underneath receiver and tackle him before he reaches the first down marker.

I agree with all of that. But here's the question. It looks like the feedback the developers are getting feedback that random events or dice rolls aren't popular in regards to qb accuracy and especially dropped passes. What is everyone's take when you call the right defense. Are your defensive backs supposed to be swatting the ball and picking passes or just put the user in position to make a play. If an ai defender drops a pick or misses a swat, isn't that a dice roll.

[ForUntoOblivionSoar∞]

Re: Let's put it to a vote: Do we need two game settings? (Sim vs online)

It's commonly been reference to but I don't recall seeing an actual OS poll on the matter.

Do we need to have two game settings in Madden: SIM and ONLINE
*They could obviously be called whatever EA wanted to label them as*

To put the difference into simple terms I will define SIM as a mode where things outside of the user's control will happen (bad throws/fumbles/drops/missed blocks/bad routes/FG's much harder) and ONLINE as a mode where none of those examples happen outside of the user's control.

There seems to be two very different schools of thought out there and I'm asking OS if it's time to start heavily pushing for a separation of two game mode settings so each type could have their own rendition of the game they want.

Would sim mode include a real pass rush and real qb inaccuracy for both users and cpu for once? (and in fact everything happening to both) If so count me in the YES!!!! category.