Pass coverage scripting frustation

[feeq14]

I put this game down a few months back due to a combination of increased work demands and this particular flaw in the game. This video is from All-Madden btw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jj6I_fdF_H4

Now I am not sure if this is something that can be addressed in sliders (if so please point them to me) but I am very tired of this particular element to this years game. It reminds me of the "wide open gameplay" days. I know it's late in the season so I'm hoping that the devs see this and put a pin in it for the future.

[edaddy]

Re: Pass coverage scripting frustation

Is that game play from the patched version or out of the box version the patch version is nerfed

[JDoze]

Re: Pass coverage scripting frustation

I feel like one of the biggest problems of the game is lack of a.i. sprinting. It affects the cpu in every way because user's switch and sprint to shut down every aspect of the game. It's why humans beat the a.i. teams too easily... the a.i. simply isn't fast enough to make plays.

[feeq14]

Re: Pass coverage scripting frustation

Is that game play from the patched version or out of the box version the patch version is nerfed

That's from a patched version

[edaddy]

Re: Pass coverage scripting frustation

That's from a patched version

OK try going back to the out of the box version the wr dB interaction is more physical and coverage is tighter..the patched version completely nerfed the press and increased separation. I am not saying it's completely eliminated on the out of the box version but it's noticeably different thanks to dB skins for converting me to the OOTB version give it a try man

[underdog13]

Re: Pass coverage scripting frustation

I see your point about the DB catching up. I'm not sure why you called the thread and video "scripting" though.

From my experience when I played HS football, so take it for what you will. I ran a 5.1 and would face many dbs who ran 4.6,4.7,4.8. If they pressed and I beat them on a fade, they weren't going to catch right up to me 20 yards down the field. The db's would fight to get just off my inside hip, and if you got a great release they aren't going to catch up.

Now I think the real issue here in the clip is how in press coverage the dbs almost always lose badly. There are never 50/50 splits where neither won or lost. I don't think in that clip that the db should have been at Gronks back when he caught the ball. Closer probably but not at his back.

I would think adjusting the speed threshold would make things closer to how you want them to play out.

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[Sturzinator]

Re: Pass coverage scripting frustation

I see your point about the DB catching up. I'm not sure why you called the thread and video "scripting" though.

From my experience when I played HS football, so take it for what you will. I ran a 5.1 and would face many dbs who ran 4.6,4.7,4.8. If they pressed and I beat them on a fade, they weren't going to catch right up to me 20 yards down the field. The db's would fight to get just off my inside hip, and if you got a great release they aren't going to catch up.

Now I think the real issue here in the clip is how in press coverage the dbs almost always lose badly. There are never 50/50 splits where neither won or lost. I don't think in that clip that the db should have been at Gronks back when he caught the ball. Closer probably but not at his back.

I would think adjusting the speed threshold would make things closer to how you want them to play out.

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Hmmm...I played college football, but never was I privy to the 40 times of my opponents.

Just curious as to how you were able to access this information about your opponents' 40 times?

[underdog13]

Re: Pass coverage scripting frustation

Hmmm...I played college football, but never was I privy to the 40 times of my opponents.

Just curious as to how you were able to access this information about your opponents' 40 times?

Teammates in practice

Sorry should've been more clear
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[primo_80]

Re: Pass coverage scripting frustation

I agree that shouldn't happen the way it did. I don't see any receiver getting that much separation on a top CB. And I would say scripting is an accurate description of what that is. In madden's defense, my guess is the distance was created to avoid a breakup animation being triggered on what deserved to be a "beat press-success" and a catch and run.

As a madden play, that is a probable outcome running press coverage. However, where realism breaks down is that the db is tracking the ball, not playing his man. Gronk absolutely could get position like that, but Haden's assignment in man coverage -without a safety over top- would not be to locate the ball in the air. His responsibility in madden terms should be to shadow his man and trigger a "play man" ability.

This touches on why attributes are so flawed. Let's say for simplicity's sake that the man coverage stat is the one stat controlling this play. That stat is "rolled" against Gronk's route running, say. Then whatever animations exist within madden are played. In reality a player's "man coverage" ability would be much more nuanced. When to turn his hips, recognizing the receiver's eyes on the ball and when his hands come up for the catch, hand placement when the ball arrives, etc.

[Slim4824]

Re: Pass coverage scripting frustation

Adjust the speed threshold slider

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[JayhawkerStL]

Re: Pass coverage scripting frustation

Honestly, I really don't see this as a problem. Any CB can be beaten that bad. And depending on the the defensive settings, I've seen CBs looking back to jump a route get burned before.

In my experience, great CBs several limit the chances that you can find receivers open. But it doesn't eliminate those chances. And that video plays out exactly like it would have in real life.

This is part of the uncanny valley issue sports games have had. The play is realistic, you just don't like the way it was animated.

[wutthedeuce]

Re: Pass coverage scripting frustation

Honestly, I really don't see this as a problem. Any CB can be beaten that bad. And depending on the the defensive settings, I've seen CBs looking back to jump a route get burned before.

In my experience, great CBs several limit the chances that you can find receivers open. But it doesn't eliminate those chances. And that video plays out exactly like it would have in real life.

This is part of the uncanny valley issue sports games have had. The play is realistic, you just don't like the way it was animated.

For as good as Gronk is, he does his damage in the middle of the field or jumping over people. I don't watch a lot of NE, but I highly doubt he is beating elite CBs 1v1 in a foot race. Haden, even though beaten at the line, would've surely gained ground on Gronk. As he states in the video, yeah, Gronk could have made the play by either breaking the tackle and/or carrying him into the endzone. No way he beats him in a foot race though. Haden would've definitely gained ground on him. If a CB knows he's beat, he's going to put his head down and sprint rather than focus entirely on the ball. You can clearly see the speed difference when Haden is ball watching, and flat out running. Gronk actually gains speed during that sequence. Not much, but you can definitely see it

[wutthedeuce]

Re: Pass coverage scripting frustation

This has been in Madden for quite a while now. I just avoid press covering anyone at all, cuz you get beat more often than you should. Even with a great pressing corner. If someone in particular is carving my defense I will never leave them alone, or play a zone. Rather give up some yardage than a ton

I was getting beat a ridiculous amount at the start, but I went into the sliders and tweaked them. Seems to have fixed it for me as I was getting beat pretty regularly, now it seems realistic. I would try that and moving their QB accuracy down, I did both. That was another thing I noticed was that every QB was deadly accurate on deep balls when their rating suggests they shouldn't be. I found a nice medium for it. I would suggest not playing guys 1v1 in press unless you are near the goal line or you expect a slant route. Other than that, I would stay away from it entirely. Play around with those two sliders and find one you are ok with. I don't have mine in front of me right now but if I would had to guess, my CPU QB accuracy is at 15 and my pass coverage is 70. Great QBs still shred, but the bums will perform the way they should. Same with the pass coverage. Great WRs will beat you from time to time, but it won't be so ridiculous. My speed threshold is at 15 as well. Works pretty well for me. Pretty sure pass defense reaction time has something to do with it as well. I turned mine up just a bit as I felt the default setting was not very good. Players seemed to be slow acting to plays when they shouldn't have been.

Mess with the sliders, see what works.

[primo_80]

Re: Pass coverage scripting frustation

Honestly, I really don't see this as a problem. Any CB can be beaten that bad. And depending on the the defensive settings, I've seen CBs looking back to jump a route get burned before.

In my experience, great CBs several limit the chances that you can find receivers open. But it doesn't eliminate those chances. And that video plays out exactly like it would have in real life.

This is part of the uncanny valley issue sports games have had. The play is realistic, you just don't like the way it was animated.

I've always thought the uncanny valley was visible in this game, just in a different way. The more they try to replicate a football player's motion and physics, the better the ps2 maddens look in comparison. Madden isn't making big strides in recreating football interactions as much as they are boosting animation and graphical fidelity.

Everyone can see madden hasn't fundamentally changed much. It releases every year with incremental improvements to itself, but it's really a house built on sand. I don't want to bash; these are observations and opinions.

What I see 1 on 1 play (ball carrier vs defender) boiling down to is and has been a robotic heat-seeker, lifeless, emotionless computer simulation. Maybe I shouldn't expect it to suspend my disbelief, but I have been fooled by AI running backs before so I know it's possible.

Where I'm going with this is just to illustrate the uncanny valley I see in madden. In the ps2 games, players had to use their imaginations because it was never supposed to be lifelike. Stuff looked wonky, but you looked past it so long as it was a realistic outcome. Fast forward and now they improved the graphics and animations, but neglected to give players a system of football fundamentals. They react on a scale from 'no player would ever do that' to 'directly tethered to the opponent's controller' without much of a sweet spot. The two poles are not the norm but are magnified.

The smooth, lifelike animations pull the curtain back on the AI and show how incompetent they really are. It has become much harder to excuse an AI breakdown to video game logic or restrictions like we could on ps2.

[SilverBullet19]

Re: Pass coverage scripting frustation

scripting has been an issue forever. To be fair, its hard to have a true, honest, human-like reaction to a play. The CPU decides how a defender will react prior to the play being called. The only thing that can change an outcome is user input.

This is obvious through pass scripting as the video shows, but also in LB's and DL's running TO a block on a run play. Even after a catch, sometimes players do not run toward the ball carrier.

It's frustrating for sure, but I wouldn't call it unplayable.