After the Last Patch, the Game is a Cheating Machine

[cable guy]

Re: After the Last Patch, the Game is a Cheating Machine

Nah, this just doesn't happen on AP level sliders with everything turned on using Josh C's sliders.

I was up 14 to 3 before halftime and I held Luck to a FG at the end of the half. If the CPU was a cheating machine, the HT score would have been 14 to 10.

I was up 21 to 6 with 3 minutes left in the game. If the CPU wanted to mount a comeback, they waited till 3 minutes left in the game to score a TD with 37 seconds left in the game. The score became 21 to 13 with 37 seconds left.

The CPU tried an onside kick and I was able to scoop up the ball. There was no fumble, no onside recovery by the CPU.

Game over.

The game is tested on AP w/o adjusting sliders. The game plays a good game with ratings matters playing the game this way.(yes, there are still legendary issues with the game that everyone knows about)

I totally agree

Now I have had the cpu come back on me in the final minutes. About 3 times out of about 75 games.

In one game I had the Bengals score twice at the end. After scoring a TD, they actually got the onside kick. Booted a FG with no time remaining. Grabbed a W from me. Epic and exciting game. It happens. It's football. Honestly one of my favorite games ever.

Bottom line, I do not see any comeback code. No cheating. None. Not on All-Pro. I simply do see Not what people are describing here.

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[cable guy]

Re: After the Last Patch, the Game is a Cheating Machine

Whatever is the reasoning is it does seem like blowing out the cpu is difficult. i have had many games in which I had a good lead late in the game turn into a close game or loss. I only had one game that I got a good lead in and closed out the game strong.

Blocked punts, unstoppable offense, and penalties seem to be prevalent late in games when the cpu is going to make a comeback.

I have had quite a few games in which the cpu scored 10 or less in the first 3 quarters but their offense all of a sudden is nearly unstoppable in the 4th.

One other thing to remember is just simply watching real life games, how often do you see offenses get aggressive and a low scoring game turns into a late shootout? It does seem to happen quite often.

I can see how fatigue can be a factor. Maybe I need to call strategic timeouts to give my defense a rest (of course this would mean finding times that I am not stopping the clock to their benefit).

I also wonder how much the dice rolls late in game are effected the players skills/ratings such as players that are clutch, have low or high confidence, high or low awareness, etc.

I play on All-Pro.

I just don't have comebacks like these though.

I've gone into another teams house, in which these things happen. Minus blocked FGS and Punts. Some here and there. But not multiple in one game.

And games this happens to me is places like Green Bay, Seattle, Pittsburgh, New England, and of course division rivals. Mainly Washington for some reason.

Again, this has been from the get go. Not Cpu comebacks. It's From the kickoff, till the final whistle. I just know its going to be a LONG game. Not one thing goes right. Penalties, fumbles, big plays given up. Not... One... Single... Thing... Goes right. And the thing is....I've watched my Cowboys IRL have many, many games like these. Way too many.

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[jfsolo]

Re: After the Last Patch, the Game is a Cheating Machine

I've put the game down for the year because after the last two patches tighten up some things and made ratings matter ever more(on All-Pro, solo CFM) the CPU was unable to give a realistic challenge because, since there isn't any cheating IMO, the playcalling of both sides of the ball, and the CPU QB A.I. just couldn't adjust to the play of any reasonably competent User.

They could perform okay on defense, Cover Zero was still the bane of their existence, but offensively I just shut down every team with with vanilla Cover 2 and Cover 3 calls.

Now we know that All-Madden has some shenanigans, but even there the CPU A.I. just couldn't get the job done anymore.

[GoBigRed29]

Re: After the Last Patch, the Game is a Cheating Machine

Something I've noticed in the last 4 games. Each time I went up 2 touchdowns, either 14-0 or 21-7, the CPU scored on a long play either immediately following my TD or the play directly after. Could just be coincidence but to happen 4 times in a row...

[roadman]

Re: After the Last Patch, the Game is a Cheating Machine

Something I've noticed in the last 4 games. Each time I went up 2 touchdowns, either 14-0 or 21-7, the CPU scored on a long play either immediately following my TD or the play directly after. Could just be coincidence but to happen 4 times in a row...

Perhaps, perhaps not?

It all depends on what mode and sliders you are playing with and your play calling patterns.

On defense, mix it up, call man, zone, blitz, no blitz, call TO's to break the momentum.

This just doesn't happen playing on all pro default sliders.

And refuted by two different development teams over the past several years.

[cable guy]

Re: After the Last Patch, the Game is a Cheating Machine

I've put the game down for the year because after the last two patches tighten up some things and made ratings matter ever more(on All-Pro, solo CFM) the CPU was unable to give a realistic challenge because, since there isn't any cheating IMO, the playcalling of both sides of the ball, and the CPU QB A.I. just couldn't adjust to the play of any reasonably competent User.

They could perform okay on defense, Cover Zero was still the bane of their existence, but offensively I just shut down every team with with vanilla Cover 2 and Cover 3 calls.

Now we know that All-Madden has some shenanigans, but even there the CPU A.I. just couldn't get the job done anymore.

Now there is definitely something to be said for this here. CPU AI on both sides of the ball... wasn't good. Especially at QB. As you said, you could play a very vanilla Defense a lot of the time. But...not all the time. I couldn't anyway.

What saved Madden this year, IMO, was player ratings. Saved it to the point, that I still think its the best Madden ever. I didn't have as easy a time at it, as you and some others. As good teams and players took it to me at times. Not by strategy. Not by good play calling. But the CPU standout star players... well, stood out. Made plays. And I agree there is no cheating whatsoever.

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[GoBigRed29]

Re: After the Last Patch, the Game is a Cheating Machine

Perhaps, perhaps not?

It all depends on what mode and sliders you are playing with and your play calling patterns.

On defense, mix it up, call man, zone, blitz, no blitz, call TO's to break the momentum.

This just doesn't happen playing on all pro default sliders.

And refuted by two different development teams over the past several years.

Ya I know, not a conspiracy theory, just curious. 2 were kickreturns for TD, 1 run play, he broke 3 tackles to take it to the house, and a long bomb where he broke 2 to get it.

[montesixpac]

Re: After the Last Patch, the Game is a Cheating Machine

I had a really frustrating game last night. I was down 1 and handed the ball off for a 1 yard TD which was negated by a ridiculous holding call. Then on third down I had a wide open guy coming across the middle and the ball was batted at the LOS (it happens, but just added to the frustration and the feeling that no matter what they weren't going to let me score a TD. I ended up settling for a FG and gave Andy Dalton 1 minute to try to get the field goal. Sure enough they drove down across midfield. Time was running down quickly as I got them to call a couple timeouts at the end of my last drive, but then it happened. On consecutive plays I lost all control of my player (I was controlling a safety) and they threw to where I would have been covering and they made easy completions and to add to it I was in absolutely no position to make a play so they were able to turn it up for good games. They ended up spiking it with 6 seconds and kicking the FG to take the 2 point lead with :02 left in the game. I have a pair of 96 speed return men who were finding seems and nearly breaking kick returns multiple times in this game so I decided to go for the return rather than letting the ball go and trying to make a 75 yard pass go for a TD. I catch the ball and start slightly left only hitting the speed burst early, but letting off way early so that I can make a good cut. Well what does my guy do when I try to cut left? He keeps going in the same direction like he is on skates and then comes to a complete stop allowing the coverage to easily tackle him... I feel like whenever I play this game there is going to be something that allows for the other team to make a comeback and at the very least have a chance to win the game late.

[roadman]

Re: After the Last Patch, the Game is a Cheating Machine

The Falcons discovered the same rubberband AI in the SB as Madden does.

I'm only speaking from an All-Pro perspective, but I've heard the same goes for All Madden with all the sliders left where they should be and everything turned on, but, if the CPU tries to mount a comeback, I just turn on the gas like the Patriots do. The Patriots don't play conservative and neither do I. PA passes, counters and mixing up all the plays on offense and defense works.

[thatmanGriffin]

Re: After the Last Patch, the Game is a Cheating Machine

There is a half second delay when I throw the ball. I either get sacked or intercepted. My oline is slow getting burned on every other play. DBs are always a step behind. Can't even kick a field goal without getting blocked or I have a button delay and it has very little power to get there.

[roadman]

Re: After the Last Patch, the Game is a Cheating Machine

Yeah, I'll just drop a few quotes from Clint Oldenburg, a game developer on Madden from a few weeks ago that keeps on being brought up periodically.

Someone on Twitter asked him if DPP(Dynamic Player Performance) was still in the game:

Ah. No, that doesn't exist. The only things that can change ratings during a game are fatigue and the 'Clutch' trait.

Next question:

What about "momentum"? Are shifts in the game just the result of random distribution of dice rolls? Big debate in our league

No momentum. Random dice rolls, think of them like roulette. Fatigue also has a bit more impact than assumed as well.

Post #4 in this thread.

[cable guy]

Re: After the Last Patch, the Game is a Cheating Machine

The Falcons discovered the same rubberband AI in the SB as Madden does.

I'm only speaking from an All-Pro perspective, but I've heard the same goes for All Madden with all the sliders left where they should be and everything turned on, but, if the CPU tries to mount a comeback, I just turn on the gas like the Patriots do. The Patriots don't play conservative and neither do I. PA passes, counters and mixing up all the plays on offense and defense works.

Or the AI cheating factor of the Packers, getting a very unrealistic 3rd and a mile, too accurate a throw, super over the top rediculous sideline catch, 1st down conversion. AI refused to lose.... Sorry had to go there once Road lol

Anyway, about All-Pro. I don't see these things. But I wanted to mention, I did have a couple issues on All-Madden. Adjusted sliders. One game in paticular, had 2 blocked punts in one game. But this was in November, before latest patch obviously. Point being, these current issues sound like AM. Where the game has to present an over the top challenge. I had one Punt and One FG blocked in about 25 games using A&S latest patch sliders. All-Pro. I just don't see it.

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[cable guy]

Re: After the Last Patch, the Game is a Cheating Machine

Something I've noticed in the last 4 games. Each time I went up 2 touchdowns, either 14-0 or 21-7, the CPU scored on a long play either immediately following my TD or the play directly after. Could just be coincidence but to happen 4 times in a row...

The CPU does seem more competitive. It was harder to blow some teams out. That I thought I should have. But from my perspective, I ran a very vanilla Defense. Mainly cover 1. Some cover 2. CPU did adjust to a certain extent. Either that or my Defense was weak. And had key injuries as well. When on offense, I tried to push for a blowout, ending in some careless INTS or sacks.

Ya I know, not a conspiracy theory, just curious. 2 were kickreturns for TD, 1 run play, he broke 3 tackles to take it to the house, and a long bomb where he broke 2 to get it.

This stuff, I have not seen on All-Pro.

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[muktownballer33]

Re: After the Last Patch, the Game is a Cheating Machine

Honestly, I think this whole issue is more of a programming/animation issue than anything else. In the years and years I've played Madden there is no question the quality of the game has improved, but the frustrations have never gone away.

Being a Packers fan I love the example of the Rodgers to Cook catch in last year's playoffs. There seems to be a disconnect though in how Madden translates that kind of experience to the video game world. We see plays like the pass to Cook or Beckham's one hander against the Cowboys and can't believe our eyes. Just being fans of the sport they get you excited and it's believable because you saw it with your own eyes. Lynch's 30 broken tackles against the Saints also comes to mind. We all want those kinds of experiences in Madden.

The amount of animations and the way they are triggered in Madden just isn't where it needs to be yet. I've tried every slider set/play style posted on this site and these problems never seem to go away. You can limit them, but every single game it happens. It's almost the video game equivalent of the uncanny valley. We know it's possible, but it just doesn't look right when it happens in game.

Last night I was playing a game that was going really well, and then the insane "tip ball into air 15 yards interception" animations started happening. Followed by my QB (Wentz) overthrowing a wide open receiver 10 yards in front of him by 15 yards straight into a DB's hands. (This has happened to me with Rodgers as well so it's not just the ratings)

Overall I think people want to love this game. It's 85% there from a gameplay perspective. But it doesn't have enough "levels" in animations to accurately interpret the way things happen on Sunday. Not to mention the ball physics outside of an animation are just awful.

I can cut the development team a little slack because the number of animations/interactions that happen on a football field are VASTLY different than what you see in other sports. But when you play other games like The Show which improve each and every year and "feel" like you are watching a real game, it makes the disconnection Madden has with the real thing feel much more apparent. Maybe if they spent more time on the "game" rather than 45 different versions of Ezekiel Elliott in MUT we could get there, but that is a whole different discussion.

That's just my 2 cents on the subject. I'm sure I have a few broken controllers laying around over the years that would agree with me haha.

[montesixpac]

Re: After the Last Patch, the Game is a Cheating Machine

I have posted a couple times in here with what I have found. I feel like I'm whining by posting about this, but really I am mostly curious if there is a trend or something that specifically causes this to happen.

I am all for crazy comebacks by the cpu, but I do not enjoy it when it is overly consistent. I still think a lot of it is the CPU being more aggressive, but I'd say it goes beyond that.

In my second season I just finished my 3rd game with the Lions. The first game I won and the Steelers never went away even though I ended up winning by a couple scores and there really wasn't anything about that game that felt unrealistic, but it was also a win for me. They were tough to stop all game and it ended up a high scoring affair.

The second game I lost late helped by a number of things including multiple times losing control of my player on their game winning drive and the ensuing kickoff.

The third game was a great game all along. Tied 13 to 13 late against the Packers. I was pretty much controlling the game despite it being tied. I was moving the ball and stuffing their offense. I drove down while running the clock and with less than 3:00 to go I was in FG range on 4th down and sure enough it was blocked and returned for a TD. Well, I still had time and it was only a one score game. So, what happens? I start moving the ball down the field and BAM! fumble picked up by them and returned for a TD and now there is only about a minute left and I am down 14.

Games like this happen, but I really cannot stand it being the constant. I like losing games because I want it to be a challenge, but I sure wish it didn't always happen this way.