After the Last Patch, the Game is a Cheating Machine

[roadman]

Re: After the Last Patch, the Game is a Cheating Machine

Monte;

The notion of comeback code, rubberband AI, etc.... has been refuted by the development team before this team and this development team.

It's their word vs your personal beliefs at this point.

[NinersFan49]

Re: After the Last Patch, the Game is a Cheating Machine

I vote with Monty on this one. Just the ridiculous number and timing of blocked kicks returned for TDs mentioned in this topic alone show that something is wrong. How often do they happen irl? And just because the second greatest QB (imo) in history led a super bowl comeback against a suspect defense doesn’t mean it’s realistic when any scrub in All-Madden can go into robo QB mode any time he wants to.

The developers aren’t going to say there are scripted outcomes, it would look bad for the game. I doubt Clint has close enough knowledge of the code to know first hand, he’s probably just passing on what he’s been told.

Muktownballer’s post sounds like a reasonable theory on some of the wonkiness.

[muktownballer33]

Re: After the Last Patch, the Game is a Cheating Machine

I vote with Monty on this one. Just the ridiculous number and timing of blocked kicks returned for TDs mentioned in this topic alone show that something is wrong. How often do they happen irl? And just because the second greatest QB (imo) in history led a super bowl comeback against a suspect defense doesn’t mean it’s realistic when any scrub in All-Madden can go into robo QB mode any time he wants to.

The developers aren’t going to say there are scripted outcomes, it would look bad for the game. I doubt Clint has close enough knowledge of the code to know first hand, he’s probably just passing on what he’s been told.

Muktownballer’s post sounds like a reasonable theory on some of the wonkiness.

This is why it feels so much like its an animation/AI problem.

I've seen my fair share of low rated QB's go crazy on my defense during games. Honestly, I want that kind of stuff to happen in my sports games. I want to see the natural rise of 7th round picks or undrafted free agents make a splash. But the way the XP system is tied so much into progression we know it isn't like we are watching an 92 OVR QB in a 73 OVR QB's body. We are already pretty sure where that player is going to end up ratings wise eventually (which unfortunately takes out a lot of the mystery/surprise.)

Regardless, ratings as well as strategy go into how the CPU acts on the field. The developers aren't going to acknowledge comeback or rubber band a.i. cause they know exactly how that would be taken by the community. That's marketing/PR 101.

It's much more likely that the CPU changes their conservative strategy when certain perimeters are met (time left + lead/deficit faced) and acts accordingly. Anyone who has ever done quick play calling for a full game will see when these moments trigger.

The only reason people get so upset when this happens is it's often incredibly drastic when it happens. It would be much more believable if it was more subtle or happened at the appropriate times (aka start of the 2nd half.)

Go play NHL, the second you score a goal the CPU goes into full attack mode and can feel like it's cheating. But if you go into the sliders and change the user and cpu strategy adjustments to be equal that levels out CONSIDERABLY.

Madden needs better/more robust animations and the ability to level the strategy adjustments like in EA's other games. I think that would fix the majority of our problems.

[roadman]

Re: After the Last Patch, the Game is a Cheating Machine

I play all pro without adjusting any sliders and I don't see blocked kicks in comeback mode much at all. The way it's being reported is that it happens every time one has a lead.

I'm not saying it doesn't happen on the all madden level, I would think it does. All I'm saying is I don't see it nearly as enough as you are Niner's fan on the all pro level.

However, Charter, a slider guru that utilizes all madden has changed his sliders to all pro without adjustments to sliders and keeps everything on and he hasn't experienced comeback mode, either.

I'm not saying it doesn't happen, folks, especially on the higher level, but I don't think you can deny me that same courtesy of what I'm reporting on the all pro level I am playing on.

If you want to call out the developers that all they are doing is PR/Marketing, your prerogative. I doubt they ever stay in touch with the programmers that they work with.

I do agree with Muk that Madden needs better animations across the board. Also, I agree the CPU needs to be much smarter on the play calling end, that system needs an overhaul.

Let's all hope that Madden goes the route of NHL with the slider system they developed.

[roadman]

Re: After the Last Patch, the Game is a Cheating Machine

Actually, Charter went back to AP default, my bad on that one.

Post #1983 from Charter:

All Pro default plays as the game is intended. I believe it's good for user v user and for the ratings to matter the most.

All Madden makes it were either the user is at a disadvantage or the CPU is boosted. Not sure which. Either way it's not even and won't be purely ratings based unless you change sliders. As soon as you change sliders you potentially go down a slider rabbit hole not many ever get out of. Lol.

I chose All Pro default because I can play a certain way to get a challenge. I want ratings to matter.

The issue is the terrible CPU play calling and lack of aggression from CPU QB's. That is an AI issue not a slider issue.

All Madden works the same in that manner but, a 75 overall RB can break 5 tackles for a TD or the CPU QB is deadly accurate.

I can play AM and win plenty. For me it's not the challenge I want ratings to matter.

So everyone has to make their own choice. Default AP or AM or a slider set.

PS: I never make up my mind after a half. I've played over a season of games this way. I blow out the CPU at times, lose at times, and have close games.

I play a certain way on AP that gives a challenge. I don't go into it with a win at all cost attitude. I go into it to have fun and for ratings to matter.

Post #1392 from Charters thread and the OP of this thread:

After the terrible experience playing default AP, I switched to Charter's AM settings, including having assists on as he suggests. I haven't played with assists in several years. The difference was huge. I'm 2-1 playing with Dallas, losing 27-24 to the Giants and beating Washington and Chicago 43-21 and 28-16. The Washington game was most closer than the final, as I had two late scores on defense.

It seems this year that you must have assists on as the HUM player or you will be victim of super CPU comebacks. Three games is a small sample, but what I've seen is fair and encouraging.

[jfsolo]

Re: After the Last Patch, the Game is a Cheating Machine

Everyone has their own experiences, but I played a couple hundred games on AM this year with all assists off as usual, and although the CPU did have the frustrating ratings boosts of course, I was never the victim of any crazy comebacks.

The A.I. was never good enough to fully take advantage of the souped up ratings, so while while I might lose a back and forth squeaker once in a while, if they got down big, they stayed down and always lost the game. It is what it is.

[Housh123]

Re: After the Last Patch, the Game is a Cheating Machine

That's your prerogative if your saying a developer of the game isn't telling the truth.

Comeback code, rubber band AI, and cheating doesn't happen for me on the all pro level at all.

These theories have been debunked since the Ian days.

I kinda appreciate the unpredictability of all madden so I run that but with a lot of slider changes. I didn't want to but I was forced to change fumble, interceptions, and pass blocking sliders because the game was clearly screwing me over.


The way my game runs now I can clearly feel when I have a great player playing and a average player playing. My better defenders cause more fumbles and get pressure on the QB more and my average players rarely make big plays. On offense my fast RB with high BC vision seems to get long gains and my bruiser struggles with long runs but can get 2 yards usually every other run. My great offensive lineman can block my average center is my weak link.


Ratings matter and that's all I want when I play Madden.

[cusefan74]

Re: After the Last Patch, the Game is a Cheating Machine

Any one can recommend a all pro slider set because im tired of the cpu trash qb's throwing for 70% and convert 3d downs like its automatic ...been browsing though slider section but not a single all pro slider set which generates realistic QB play and percentages .tired of cpu comebacks cheating me after 40 minutes of game play to steal the game . Every team brings that pain whether home or on the road .with qb percentages soaring sky high

Turn the accuracy slider down to like 10, you will see the difference. The better QB's will be better no matter what, but you will see a difference, at least I do. And sometimes those guys will struggle, it happens.

[cable guy]

Re: After the Last Patch, the Game is a Cheating Machine

Any one can recommend a all pro slider set because im tired of the cpu trash qb's throwing for 70% and convert 3d downs like its automatic ...been browsing though slider section but not a single all pro slider set which generates realistic QB play and percentages .tired of cpu comebacks cheating me after 40 minutes of game play to steal the game . Every team brings that pain whether home or on the road .with qb percentages soaring sky high

I used Armor and Swords, and they were excellent.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

[weaklandwarrior]

Re: After the Last Patch, the Game is a Cheating Machine

Same thing goes for my CFM. Some say the CPU is cheating and other know they are making bad decisions. I'm curious to know how much fatigue impacts offensive line on FGs or the extra point after a long drive.

We use a custom slider set we put together to get sim stats. For the most part CPU completes 60-75% of their passes, once in a while they'll do the 80-100% completion. For rushing the CPU is between 16-30 attempts per game. Once in a while you'll see 50+ attempts though. It's been a struggle to find middle group between the CPU just passing all the time, only rushing, and only throwing to dump offs. Generally the stats have been realistic it's just those oddball games where the CPU completes 25 passes in a row. That's why it feels like it's cheating. With our sliders now, the CPU still takes shots downfield.

Our big problem has been the random dice roles in the kicking game. Some seasons (we're on year 11) we don't have any blocks, others it's like the CPU blocks everything, but on the user end we get like maybe 2 blocks a season between the 5 of us.

My biggest issue is with Line play and WR-DB interactions. Sometimes the line will hold blocks for what seems like forever and it feels like the o=lineman are holding my Dline but theres never a penalty so the qb stands in the pocket for 10 seconds while the WR run back to the ball and my DBs jsut give up on the play high motor trait or not. As for WR-DB interactions, it seems liek the DB has no chance to go for the ball. Even if the DB does go for the ball it's pass interference. and then theres the pass interference when the WR grabs the DB and holds the DB but it's still defensive pass interference.

My goal when i play is to try to keep the random dice rolls to a minimum and i try to control the game with defense and running the ball. since we switched to all-madden four seasons ago we've had one user superbowl winner and have had a mix of good/bad teams. Every award didn't go to a user player and the CPU. It's a fun challenge but the random dice rolls can make it feel like the CPU is cheating, even though it add variety.

[montesixpac]

Re: After the Last Patch, the Game is a Cheating Machine

What the game feels like to me is playing a racing game with "slow car catch up", so whoever is behind is more likely to get a beneficial play or penalty. My last game I fought back and forth with Green Bay and down two scores late I found a way to win with seconds left on the clock. It was fun and exciting, but doesn't feel organic when it feels every game ends up in this type of situation.

I do have a very poor offensive line and my running game stinks, so this could certainly play a big role in me never being able to close out games easily. On top of that, I have had heavy injury problems (especially on defense) which could really be hurting my chances of making stops late in games.

[roadman]

Re: After the Last Patch, the Game is a Cheating Machine

Same thing goes for my CFM. Some say the CPU is cheating and other know they are making bad decisions. I'm curious to know how much fatigue impacts offensive line on FGs or the extra point after a long drive.

We use a custom slider set we put together to get sim stats. For the most part CPU completes 60-75% of their passes, once in a while they'll do the 80-100% completion. For rushing the CPU is between 16-30 attempts per game. Once in a while you'll see 50+ attempts though. It's been a struggle to find middle group between the CPU just passing all the time, only rushing, and only throwing to dump offs. Generally the stats have been realistic it's just those oddball games where the CPU completes 25 passes in a row. That's why it feels like it's cheating. With our sliders now, the CPU still takes shots downfield.

Our big problem has been the random dice roles in the kicking game. Some seasons (we're on year 11) we don't have any blocks, others it's like the CPU blocks everything, but on the user end we get like maybe 2 blocks a season between the 5 of us.

My biggest issue is with Line play and WR-DB interactions. Sometimes the line will hold blocks for what seems like forever and it feels like the o=lineman are holding my Dline but theres never a penalty so the qb stands in the pocket for 10 seconds while the WR run back to the ball and my DBs jsut give up on the play high motor trait or not. As for WR-DB interactions, it seems liek the DB has no chance to go for the ball. Even if the DB does go for the ball it's pass interference. and then theres the pass interference when the WR grabs the DB and holds the DB but it's still defensive pass interference.

My goal when i play is to try to keep the random dice rolls to a minimum and i try to control the game with defense and running the ball. since we switched to all-madden four seasons ago we've had one user superbowl winner and have had a mix of good/bad teams. Every award didn't go to a user player and the CPU. It's a fun challenge but the random dice rolls can make it feel like the CPU is cheating, even though it add variety.

Fatigue does play a role plus the dice rolls. To what extent, I have no idea.

[VanillaEps]

Re: After the Last Patch, the Game is a Cheating Machine

I don't think the CPU cheats or has the "comeback" that it used to have - but I do notice that there are certain drives where I know from the beginning that its been "scripted" for the CPU to score.

Running backs become juke and spin machines and they shed tackles like their dipped in grease. All of a sudden, my defensive line is not getting any pressure and the WR's and TE's are finding the perfect soft spots in my zone coverages. Or in man coverage, by DB is caught with his pants down. That'll happen the entire drive and there's absolutely nothing I can do about it.

That and the field goal/punt block - where my kicker takes an extra second or two to go through his motion to get the kick off and its blocked.

[NinersFan49]

Re: After the Last Patch, the Game is a Cheating Machine

I don't think the CPU cheats or has the "comeback" that it used to have - but I do notice that there are certain drives where I know from the beginning that its been "scripted" for the CPU to score.

Running backs become juke and spin machines and they shed tackles like their dipped in grease. All of a sudden, my defensive line is not getting any pressure and the WR's and TE's are finding the perfect soft spots in my zone coverages. Or in man coverage, by DB is caught with his pants down. That'll happen the entire drive and there's absolutely nothing I can do about it.

That and the field goal/punt block - where my kicker takes an extra second or two to go through his motion to get the kick off and its blocked.

Exactly, I experience the same thing. Btw, I notice the opposite too, where the cpu basically plays crappy to stop itself. The running back will go down super easily just short of the first down or the QB will throw the ball away when he's got guys open.

It's not really cheating to defeat the user, it just wants to control the flow of the game.

[SilverBullet19]

Re: After the Last Patch, the Game is a Cheating Machine

I don't find the CPU doing a comeback, just a lot more "video game bulls**t" on all-madden, as my college roommate used to call it. Insane plays by CPU, blatant dropped passed/missed blocks by user teams, unstoppable CPU offenses, a whole bunch of "motha f***in BOOWAP!"

I am quite literally laughing right remembering him yell out those two phrases all the time lol

Back on topic: that's why I prefer all-pro with sliders. I could only win maybe 1/3 of games on all Madden, with a team 5-10 points better than the CPU.