Clint Oldenburg Talks Blocking, Mechanics, and "Broken" Zones (T4Verts)

[T4VERTS]

Re: Clint Oldenburg Talks Blocking, Mechanics, and "Broken" Zones (T4Verts)

This instance happened only a couple years ago with this Dev team. This is not one of those 'legacy' code issues.

i didnt catch where he said it was with this development team that it was added, only that they fixed it. To be fair though while the interview is going on I'm normally planning for the next transition so I don't always get all the details until I listen a couple times. Again though, millions of lines of code and what one person does can effect many other areas. While that person may mean well it can have unintended consequences.

[deu22ces]

Re: Clint Oldenburg Talks Blocking, Mechanics, and "Broken" Zones (T4Verts)

i didnt catch where he said it was with this development team that it was added, only that they fixed it. To be fair though while the interview is going on I'm normally planning for the next transition so I don't always get all the details until I listen a couple times. Again though, millions of lines of code and what one person does can effect many other areas. While that person may mean well it can have unintended consequences.

That's fine. He said it at around 15:30. "It traces back a couple years ago..."

[Toupal]

Re: Clint Oldenburg Talks Blocking, Mechanics, and "Broken" Zones (T4Verts)

Have to play to critique it?

I used to do that when Madden released demos . Then for some reason they stopped doing that.

I don't have to play the game to know that they put no real effort into the only game mode I play (franchise).

I don't have to play it to know that every season, our wish lists go ignored.

I don't need to play it to see that franchise has less depth than Madden 05.

I don't need to play it to know that casual fans are more important to the NFL and EA than the true diehard fans.

They need to quit undermining the value of the consumers thoughts, ideas, and input.

If you read the threads, people are not happy. And as opposed to listening, they play it off with comments like "play it before you judge it. ". I have played it.... Since Madden 64. And I'm disappointed with the direction of this game.

I hope every year they prove my pessimism wrong. However, they don't. One of these seasons, Madden just prove me wrong. I dare you.

I dare you to listen to your consumers for one season, and then create the game based on their ideas.

[xCoachDx]

Re: Clint Oldenburg Talks Blocking, Mechanics, and "Broken" Zones (T4Verts)

Pretty good interview. Lots of info from Clint. He didn't actually confirm that zones were broken, he just said that very few people actually played the game.



So I'm wondering if zones are really broken or if the zones back at EA Play were bugged and too tough or "too tight" so to speak.



We really just need to play the game ourselves and see.

Why would we need to play the game in order to see the things that aren't working properly? We can clearly see that the zones aren't working. I don't understand the thought process behind this.


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[xCoachDx]

Re: Clint Oldenburg Talks Blocking, Mechanics, and "Broken" Zones (T4Verts)

Have to play to critique it?



I used to do that when Madden released demos . Then for some reason they stopped doing that.



I don't have to play the game to know that they put no real effort into the only game mode I play (franchise).



I don't have to play it to know that every season, our wish lists go ignored.



I don't need to play it to see that franchise has less depth than Madden 05.



I don't need to play it to know that casual fans are more important to the NFL and EA than the true diehard fans.



They need to quit undermining the value of the consumers thoughts, ideas, and input.



If you read the threads, people are not happy. And as opposed to listening, they play it off with comments like "play it before you judge it. ". I have played it.... Since Madden 64. And I'm disappointed with the direction of this game.



I hope every year they prove my pessimism wrong. However, they don't. One of these seasons, Madden just prove me wrong. I dare you.



I dare you to listen to your consumers for one season, and then create the game based on their ideas.

This. 100% this. As I just said, I don't understand the thought of "you have to play it first before making a judgement on it." You can clearly see some of its glaring issues. I don't need a controller in my hand to see them.


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[vannwolfhawk]

Re: Clint Oldenburg Talks Blocking, Mechanics, and "Broken" Zones (T4Verts)

This. 100% this. As I just said, I don't understand the thought of "you have to play it first before making a judgement on it." You can clearly see some of its glaring issues. I don't need a controller in my hand to see them.


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I agree with everyone as I have played every madden since the 1st one ever made. We know the legacy issues that have gone on. You can see a lot from just watching videos.

However, to play devils advocate and I am just as guilty here as I have seen conflicting things regarding man to man. At 1st I saw the same ole man to man in videos and 5 yards of separation on C routes, out routes etc. Then I saw 2 videos with incredible man defense on those routes and it was night and day. Now I don't know why that is as is it because of the gameplay settings or difficulty or both? So, In this case I will need to play it and test it before I really know if it's fixed or not. That being said it's not hard to see in all videos zone is screwy! LOL

[xCoachDx]

Re: Clint Oldenburg Talks Blocking, Mechanics, and "Broken" Zones (T4Verts)

I agree with everyone as I have played every madden since the 1st one ever made. We know the legacy issues that have gone on. You can see a lot from just watching videos.



However, to play devils advocate and I am just as guilty here as I have seen conflicting things regarding man to man. At 1st I saw the same ole man to man in videos and 5 yards of separation on C routes, out routes etc. Then I saw 2 videos with incredible man defense on those routes and it was night and day. Now I don't know why that is as is it because of the gameplay settings or difficulty or both? So, In this case I will need to play it and test it before I really know if it's fixed or not. That being said it's not hard to see in all videos zone is screwy! LOL

I'm not sure man to man has been a problem. I've actually seen some good man coverage in recent videos. However, Zone coverages are messed up. There's no denying that. Because of that, games at launch will be complete shootouts. I've seen nothing that suggests the game should be purchased when it comes out and the only people that seem to be getting it are the "I'm buying because I always do" crowd.


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[extremeskins04]

Re: Clint Oldenburg Talks Blocking, Mechanics, and "Broken" Zones (T4Verts)

Why would we need to play the game in order to see the things that aren't working properly? We can clearly see that the zones aren't working. I don't understand the thought process behind this.


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Because there were only a handful of people that played the game, and honestly these videos are in "Play Now", they aren't in CFM. Games play differently between Play Now and CFM. Ask any of the regular slider makes this and they will tell you.

As far as zone defense, even Clint said that it may have been blown out of proportion some and people need to play the game and see how it is. Zones might be FINE now but they were broken at EA Play, we don't know.

Now I'm the first one to tell you that the legacy issues in this game are still there regarding QB awareness and scrambling, RB's making ridiculous jukes when they don't need to and other things, some man coverage plays where the CB just stops, but as far as the ZONE DEFENSE "issue", we need to play it to see if it's really broken or if people are overreacting with this one.

What if EA tries to fix something that wasn't really broken to begin with? There are alot of Madden Game Changers that are "competitive players" and aren't "CFM guys" and what may be broken to them, isn't broken to someone that might be a sim guy, etc.

But if you can show me a video clip of where you can see Zones are completely broken and not working as intended, then we can go from there.

[xCoachDx]

Re: Clint Oldenburg Talks Blocking, Mechanics, and "Broken" Zones (T4Verts)

Because there were only a handful of people that played the game, and honestly these videos are in "Play Now", they aren't in CFM. Games play differently between Play Now and CFM. Ask any of the regular slider makes this and they will tell you.



As far as zone defense, even Clint said that it may have been blown out of proportion some and people need to play the game and see how it is. Zones might be FINE now but they were broken at EA Play, we don't know.



Now I'm the first one to tell you that the legacy issues in this game are still there regarding QB awareness and scrambling, RB's making ridiculous jukes when they don't need to and other things, but as far as the ZONE DEFENSE "issue", we need to play it to see if it's really broken or if people are overreacting with this one.

Per SimFootballCritic, Rex has said they aren't working properly. Also, the current build in which the coverages are not working properly is a part of the day one patch. Therefore, the zone defense will not be working at launch. That has essentially been confirmed. So them throwing out the "you need to play it for yourselves" is them trying to save their launch sales.

[Senator Palmer]

Re: Clint Oldenburg Talks Blocking, Mechanics, and "Broken" Zones (T4Verts)

I agree with everyone as I have played every madden since the 1st one ever made. We know the legacy issues that have gone on. You can see a lot from just watching videos.

However, to play devils advocate and I am just as guilty here as I have seen conflicting things regarding man to man. At 1st I saw the same ole man to man in videos and 5 yards of separation on C routes, out routes etc. Then I saw 2 videos with incredible man defense on those routes and it was night and day. Now I don't know why that is as is it because of the gameplay settings or difficulty or both? So, In this case I will need to play it and test it before I really know if it's fixed or not. That being said it's not hard to see in all videos zone is screwy! LOL

I checked that vid you linked of the man coverage. Looks night and day.

And just to add onto that line of thought, sometimes you just don't know how people are playing... yes some things are obvious but some aren't. There are for example new adjustments you can make to deep zones to shade to one sideline or the other that I just learned about. I'm sure the devs haven't had time to pour over ever vid that's out there, so I can see where they'd want to approach this deal cautiously.

Just of example, I see a lot of users doing screwy things with their defensive line that I'd never do and throw off the way the run fits are designed. So, I can't see something like that and rightfully complain that the run defense needs to be fixed.

All that being said, yeah, there's some work that needs to be done there... lol.

[extremeskins04]

Re: Clint Oldenburg Talks Blocking, Mechanics, and "Broken" Zones (T4Verts)

Per SimFootballCritic, Rex has said they aren't working properly. Also, the current build in which the coverages are not working properly is a part of the day one patch. Therefore, the zone defense will not be working at launch. That has essentially been confirmed. So them throwing out the "you need to play it for yourselves" is them trying to save their launch sales.

Didn't Rex say in a tweet that he wants feedback and testing on this? Or did he come out and say they were going to patch it? From what I understood, Rex said "Don't worry guys I got this", and then showed some graph that had inconclusive data on it, and then said we needed to test it and provide feedback.

Which goes in line with what Clint said in T4VERTS interview in this very thread about people overreacting and needing more testing done before they correct it.

Again, I am only talking about the Zone defense issue. I know there are many other glaring legacy gameplay issues that we can see from videos.

[vannwolfhawk]

Re: Clint Oldenburg Talks Blocking, Mechanics, and "Broken" Zones (T4Verts)

I'm not sure man to man has been a problem. I've actually seen some good man coverage in recent videos. However, Zone coverages are messed up. There's no denying that. Because of that, games at launch will be complete shootouts. I've seen nothing that suggests the game should be purchased when it comes out and the only people that seem to be getting it are the "I'm buying because I always do" crowd.


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Man to man has ALWAYS been a problem. Legacy issue... Drags, outs, curls, corners, C routes, etc and it didn't matter who was guarding them or their ratings. Last year was best its been and that isn't saying much. But thats a whole different story... I was just making a point as with conflicting videos its hard to say till I play in this scenario...

I agree on the rest of your post though! It's clearly obvious with zones.

[extremeskins04]

Re: Clint Oldenburg Talks Blocking, Mechanics, and "Broken" Zones (T4Verts)

For example:

Show me a play in this video where the zones defense is broken. I tried and couldn't find it but I probably missed it.

The plays at 5:20 and 5:31 weren't a zone defense issue.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAg5CPvrssk

[OhMrHanky]

Re: Clint Oldenburg Talks Blocking, Mechanics, and "Broken" Zones (T4Verts)

I agree with everyone as I have played every madden since the 1st one ever made. We know the legacy issues that have gone on. You can see a lot from just watching videos.



However, to play devils advocate and I am just as guilty here as I have seen conflicting things regarding man to man. At 1st I saw the same ole man to man in videos and 5 yards of separation on C routes, out routes etc. Then I saw 2 videos with incredible man defense on those routes and it was night and day. Now I don't know why that is as is it because of the gameplay settings or difficulty or both? So, In this case I will need to play it and test it before I really know if it's fixed or not. That being said it's not hard to see in all videos zone is screwy! LOL

To be perfectly fair, I think you're right. And, I was right there watching the first few videos and shouting from the top of the mountain, 'the zones are broken!!! The middle of the field is wide open on EVERY play!!!! WTF???!!![emoji35]'. U know?

But, I've now watched more vids, different modes, comp, sim, and arcade, and actually, I have a feeling now it might not really be an issue. U ever notice when u play a CFM game, often your first 2 drives are kind of easy? And, then sometimes the game maybe picks up on your playcalls and adjustments seem to happen? I mean, I know the AI is not amazing, but I've always felt this on the first couple of drives of a game. So, it's quite possible that some of the poor D play we're seeing are early in the game, or just certain plays happened to open up. So, I'm actually willing to give benefit of the doubt now.

I think I'll concentrate on a quick CFM setup with ea access and play a reg season game or 2 and see how it feels. That's the best way I'll know.

Because, seriously, after watching some more videos lately, I like what I'm seeing overall. I'm actually seeing better QB scramble play. The only one who stands out as an awful statue was really Brady. Lol. Which is funny, because he's the GOAT and everything. But, they may have made him too much of a pocket passer to where he no longer moves.

And, I'm seeing some good D from the dolphins video somewhere. So, I'm starting to see a little bit of everything. No use getting totally worked up about this until we do play it. So, maybe Clint is right.


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[xCoachDx]

Re: Clint Oldenburg Talks Blocking, Mechanics, and "Broken" Zones (T4Verts)

Man to man has ALWAYS been a problem. Legacy issue... Drags, outs, curls, corners, C routes, etc and it didn't matter who was guarding them or their ratings. Last year was best its been and that isn't saying much. But thats a whole different story... I was just making a point as with conflicting videos its hard to say till I play in this scenario...



I agree on the rest of your post though! It's clearly obvious with zones.

Oh yes that's for sure. I meant hadn't been a problem so far in Madden 18. Last year was good early on and then terrible towards the end if I'm not mistaken.


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