Run/Pass commit under threat

[jfsolo]

Re: Run/Pass commit under threat

I wouldn't cry if they removed it (to be honest, I would probably cheer as it would free-up addition controls for different functionality). The way it is currently configured, it is really a vestigial feature from the older generations. The CPU can't use the functionality and it artifically overrides/boosts ratings (particularly the play recognition). It is sort of like a 'guess pitch' feature in a baseball game. You are already guessing the pitch by choosing whether to swing or miss; the function just adds another boost on top of how you guess (which in many cases, the CPU again does not get)....

Clint (an ex-player) has said repeatedly that there is no real-life comparison to this. I can't confirm nor deny that as I never played in real-life. But, 'selling-out' for run or pass is just as easily accomplished in Madden by your play calling skills (or lack thereof).

I wouldn't mind seeing it gone either, but it seems to me like the CPU does use it now. Post patch I've had several runs where my line has just pancaked the whole CPU line right into the ground. I thought it was a bug at first until I saw the Twitter discussion about R/P commit. The CPU has to be using it on occasion, IMO.

[ggsimmonds]

Re: Run/Pass commit under threat

Guess I'd rather it stay, but I would not be upset if it leaves.

It is not a sim feature, the sim way to handle it is each player's PRC and situational awareness.

[adembroski]

Re: Run/Pass commit under threat

Weird that the competitive crowd is asking for its removal. It's there for the competitive crowd. It's a decidedly non-sim feature. I'd just as soon see it gone.

[Hooe]

Re: Run/Pass commit under threat

I was surprised to learn yesterday that the Run / Pass Commit features actually do alter defender run fit assignments to some extent, so it's not quite as unrealistic as it used to be in the past where it was just "crash down", "crash left", or "crash right".

That said, the commit left / right still make your LBs all take like three steps to that direction before they perform their assignment, so it's still a bit weird and a bit of a relic from past Madden games where the defense was far less authentic than it is now.

I'm indifferent about Run / Pass Commit's removal, to be honest. I do think the idea posed earlier in this thread of a Coaching Adjustment as to how one's linebackers and safeties make their post-snap initial reads is a good idea for a replacement mechanic.

[ggsimmonds]

Re: Run/Pass commit under threat

I was surprised to learn yesterday that the Run / Pass Commit features actually do alter defender run fit assignments to some extent, so it's not quite as unrealistic as it used to be in the past where it was just "crash down", "crash left", or "crash right".

That said, the commit left / right still make your LBs all take like three steps to that direction before they perform their assignment, so it's still a bit weird and a bit of a relic from past Madden games where the defense was far less authentic than it is now.

I'm indifferent about Run / Pass Commit's removal, to be honest. I do think the idea posed earlier in this thread of a Coaching Adjustment as to how one's linebackers and safeties make their post-snap initial reads is a good idea for a replacement mechanic.

Agreed, but I would like for it not to completely overturn player ratings. I think the way it is right now I can have players with PRC in the 60s but if I pass commit they 100% of the time will not bite on the playfake.

Ideally a coach adjustment will modify the % chance, but player ratings still need to matter.

But I guess it depends on the exact nature of the adjustment. If it is something like a overall philosophy of playing the run first vs the pass, player ratings should matter more. If it is a coach adjustment meant to be used situationally then ratings would matter less.

[NEOPARADIGM]

Re: Run/Pass commit under threat

i don't recall sim players caring too much for this feature either tbh. never used it much myself.

[BigSexy]

Re: Run/Pass commit under threat

In my experience, like many aspects in the game, there's no balance. Example: say I commit to the run, but it winds up being a pass. The cornerback and everyone else assigned to a man/zone will abandon their assignment to go blitz. It'd be something if they just shifted forward towards the line, but no, they blow their covers unrealistically. I was watching the PHI/CAR game a few days ago and when PHI showed a run formation, the secondary crept up. They didn't crash the line once the ball was snapped, though.

The opposite happens when you pass commit. The secondary and LB back so far off the line it's as though they're prepping for a Hail Mary. Even when it *is* a pass, routes that go into their zones are still cheese because they're so far off the ball.

I don't care how many features they add/subtract. I just want a decently realistic football game, but at this point, it seems like too much to ask.


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[Ueauvan]

Re: Run/Pass commit under threat

as an offline coach sim mode player only i want the commit
no way do i want anyone watching the run/draw when ive got them on 3rd and long ie 3rd and 10+
i can live with the few times they run a run/draw play in those situations and succeed

[timhere1970]

Re: Run/Pass commit under threat

Agreed, but I would like for it not to completely overturn player ratings. I think the way it is right now I can have players with PRC in the 60s but if I pass commit they 100% of the time will not bite on the playfake.

Ideally a coach adjustment will modify the % chance, but player ratings still need to matter.

But I guess it depends on the exact nature of the adjustment. If it is something like a overall philosophy of playing the run first vs the pass, player ratings should matter more. If it is a coach adjustment meant to be used situationally then ratings would matter less.

As with most coach adjustments i would like the players to have a corresponding trait of how they tend to play. Some already do and balanced should make them play to their trait. For instance at balanced the secondary players that have the aggressive trait should play aggressive and conservative should play conservative.

Constantly asking players to play against their trait should affect morale/chemistry/confidence. Some defensive linemen are aggresive pass rushers by nature and are much more likely to cheat on their run stopping duties to go after the qb. I would love to see a trait like that in the game and if you constantly tell that guy to be conservative he would get mad and be hard to resign. These things woud make cfm more enjoyable and make in game coach adjustments mean something in that i lf you just set your oline to aggressive the whole game it would make some players mad. Each player should have a trait in my exaple of either more likely to read run, pass or balanced. Like you said it has to be a game of percentages. The coach adjustment woud be similar to the coach or defensive captain telling a rookie to nite bite on play action or watch out for the draw. I also thknk screens should be considered runs for this adjustment.

[ggsimmonds]

Re: Run/Pass commit under threat

As with most coach adjustments i would like the players to have a corresponding trait of how they tend to play. Some already do and balanced should make them play to their trait. For instance at balanced the secondary players that have the aggressive trait should play aggressive and conservative should play conservative.

Constantly asking players to play against their trait should affect morale/chemistry/confidence. Some defensive linemen are aggresive pass rushers by nature and are much more likely to cheat on their run stopping duties to go after the qb. I would love to see a trait like that in the game and if you constantly tell that guy to be conservative he would get mad and be hard to resign. These things woud make cfm more enjoyable and make in game coach adjustments mean something in that i lf you just set your oline to aggressive the whole game it would make some players mad. Each player should have a trait in my exaple of either more likely to read run, pass or balanced. Like you said it has to be a game of percentages. The coach adjustment woud be similar to the coach or defensive captain telling a rookie to nite bite on play action or watch out for the draw. I also thknk screens should be considered runs for this adjustment.

I see what you are getting at, but I'm going to have to disagree with you. What you are describing would make it convoluted.

A trait is not needed here when we have an attribute, play recognition, that is designed for this exact thing.

[timhere1970]

Re: Run/Pass commit under threat

I see what you are getting at, but I'm going to have to disagree with you. What you are describing would make it convoluted.

A trait is not needed here when we have an attribute, play recognition, that is designed for this exact thing.

You may be right. I don't know that play recognition does the exact same thing though. Has it been tested?

[ggsimmonds]

Re: Run/Pass commit under threat

You may be right. I don't know that play recognition does the exact same thing though. Has it been tested?

To my knowledge not thoroughly. I can only offer anecdotal evidence that it works properly. I've seen or heard nothing to indicate that it doesn't function properly though. If it doesn't, then the solution is to tune it so that it does.

As for morale and the impact of signing players to contract, that should be determined by the front end coaching scheme imo. If I set my RE to be a speed rusher, speed rushers would be more inclined to join my team and run stopping REs would not be as thrilled. Then if the speed rusher isn't getting sacks he will start to lose morale.

For AI coaches I remember in NCAA there was a slider for each coach for playing the run vs the pass. I was never 100% sure what this influenced, but I would like to see it return in Madden and influence play calling and potential coaching adjustments.

[Find_the_Door]

Re: Run/Pass commit under threat

Holy crap no! Run commit is a great tool because it’s a way to stop repetitive play calling but it has the massive counterbalance of “guess wrong and you’re screwed.” It’s totally realistic, just NFL teams don’t use the concept as much because other NFL teams aren’t as predictable in their playcalling.

Realistic? See this is my problem with Madden is that it gets this narrative out there that things like Run commit are at all sim.

[ggsimmonds]

Re: Run/Pass commit under threat

Realistic? See this is my problem with Madden is that it gets this narrative out there that things like Run commit are at all sim.

Some people act like things you like=sim.

I remember many cycles ago in the early days of the connected careers gimmick the game launched without the option to do a fantasy draft. More than one poster here made a comment along the lines of that being more proof EA doesn't care about sim gamers lol

[raypace1]

Re: Run/Pass commit under threat

Yea Clint has said that run/pass commit and base align are not realistic football [emoji458] strategies whatsoever in real life... I truly hope to see them removed...


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