Man or Zone Coverage

[stinkubus]

Re: Man or Zone Coverage

But I do 100% agree with stinkbus on deep blues.

Very sad to see, but in beta & right at release, deep blues received a total overhaul. When there was only 1 WR deep, the deep defender would attack/double/bracket the route. They wouldn't just drop to nowhere like in M17/M18. They behaved like actual human defenders. Example C2 Man, lone WR to the left on a deep out.. the deep half defender would actually come up and double that deep out. Or a deep post vs a deep middle third, the defender would match the post rather than just keep dropping so the deep post is wide open.

But a patch a while back completely un-did all this progress. I guess guys wanted to throw deep regardless of the coverage and were having trouble. So now deep blues are only a tiny hair smarter than they were in M18. This is part of the reason I user safety.

The problem was there was no recognition on the part of the AI when any type of crossing concept was being run, and no one would be home to handle that receiver.

If you aren't having problems with press in your CFM it's 100% due to sliders and/or play calling rules. It's suicide on default. If I see an outside CB in a press position pre snap I can take 25+ yards at will, and if it's C1 or C3 it's almost a guaranteed TD.

[4thQtrStre5S]

Re: Man or Zone Coverage

But I do 100% agree with stinkbus on deep blues.

Very sad to see, but in beta & right at release, deep blues received a total overhaul. When there was only 1 WR deep, the deep defender would attack/double/bracket the route. They wouldn't just drop to nowhere like in M17/M18. They behaved like actual human defenders. Example C2 Man, lone WR to the left on a deep out.. the deep half defender would actually come up and double that deep out. Or a deep post vs a deep middle third, the defender would match the post rather than just keep dropping so the deep post is wide open.

But a patch a while back completely un-did all this progress. I guess guys wanted to throw deep regardless of the coverage and were having trouble. So now deep blues are only a tiny hair smarter than they were in M18. This is part of the reason I user safety.

An interesting thing I thought of while reading your post is this: A number of MUT challenges could not be completed if a number of "Shot" plays were not blue zone beaters.

PA Crossers, for example, is a cornerstone for cheesing a number of the MUT challenges and really there has to be these plays else many challenges would be too frustrating to beat or unbeatable and would have to be removed or adjusted.

Maybe, to justify the beatable blue zones, it is decided that players will just have to "user" to stop these crosser type plays?

[Aestis]

Re: Man or Zone Coverage

The problem was there was no recognition on the part of the AI when any type of crossing concept was being run, and no one would be home to handle that receiver.

If you aren't having problems with press in your CFM it's 100% due to sliders and/or play calling rules. It's suicide on default. If I see an outside CB in a press position pre snap I can take 25+ yards at will, and if it's C1 or C3 it's almost a guaranteed TD.

It's definitely sliders then. We run very different sliders than default, my user v user sliders are 100% geared toward max realism (as much as a given year's Madden can provide). We don't have playcalling rules other than "mix it up," and certainly no rules against hotrouting to streaks if someone sees press.

And don't get me wrong, press with no help can certainly result in a TD. Often that's a result of dumb defensive playcalling though. Call C0 press a whole bunch of times and a good offensive player will get TDs on it. But lots of C0 is not a realistic NFL strategy anyway so that SHOULD get burned for TDs often. A solid matchup at CB will stop a streak a decent % of the time--enough that there's a lot less risk in calling press out of C3, C4, certainly C2 man is almost not risky at all downfield except up the seams (which inside shading can make much tougher). Even C1 press will get enough stops that it's a "risky but viable" coverage to mix in now & then: if you're in other forms of press and they try 3-4 times to just hot route a streak and they all fail, eventually they're left in 2nd/3rd & 10 often enough that they stop automatically trying that streak & you can get a little greedy by mixing in C1 press. But again, matchups matter. I wouldn't advise running a lot of C3 press with an ok or slower CB against Tyreek Hill.

We run a pretty competitive league by most league's standards these days, and man coverage with & without press are staples this year in a way that we haven't seen since honestly M16.

[SilverBullet19]

Re: Man or Zone Coverage

The problem was there was no recognition on the part of the AI when any type of crossing concept was being run, and no one would be home to handle that receiver.



If you aren't having problems with press in your CFM it's 100% due to sliders and/or play calling rules. It's suicide on default. If I see an outside CB in a press position pre snap I can take 25+ yards at will, and if it's C1 or C3 it's almost a guaranteed TD.

Absolutely agree that sliders can make a world of difference. I use matt10’s on all madden


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[xCoachDx]

Re: Man or Zone Coverage

Against the CPU, I find that neither work very well. I’ve had so many issues with pass coverage that it makes it hard to play offline CFM.

vs. other users, man coverage seems awful as well. Can’t count how many times I’ve decided to give it a try, only for my DB to watch a WR cross right across his face. Any time I see man coverage, I hot route to a quick slant and it’s a guaranteed 5-8 yards.

[stinkubus]

Re: Man or Zone Coverage

It's definitely sliders then. We run very different sliders than default, my user v user sliders are 100% geared toward max realism (as much as a given year's Madden can provide). We don't have playcalling rules other than "mix it up," and certainly no rules against hotrouting to streaks if someone sees press.

And don't get me wrong, press with no help can certainly result in a TD. Often that's a result of dumb defensive playcalling though. Call C0 press a whole bunch of times and a good offensive player will get TDs on it. But lots of C0 is not a realistic NFL strategy anyway so that SHOULD get burned for TDs often. A solid matchup at CB will stop a streak a decent % of the time--enough that there's a lot less risk in calling press out of C3, C4, certainly C2 man is almost not risky at all downfield except up the seams (which inside shading can make much tougher). Even C1 press will get enough stops that it's a "risky but viable" coverage to mix in now & then: if you're in other forms of press and they try 3-4 times to just hot route a streak and they all fail, eventually they're left in 2nd/3rd & 10 often enough that they stop automatically trying that streak & you can get a little greedy by mixing in C1 press. But again, matchups matter. I wouldn't advise running a lot of C3 press with an ok or slower CB against Tyreek Hill.

We run a pretty competitive league by most league's standards these days, and man coverage with & without press are staples this year in a way that we haven't seen since honestly M16.

It's not about hot-routed streaks. There are fade routes in the game which can't be bumped, and every playbook I've messed with this year (Saints, Dolphins, Pats, Cards) has a bunch of them. If you try to press your DB will lose 100%. These routes can even avoid the jam given by C2 CBs in cloud flats. You can dot them in the gap between the CB and the S with a very high % of success.

For a reference you can look at Gun Y Trio Offset Weak in the Saints PB. The play Saints Cross has the X receiver on one of them, and the play Stick has the Z receiver on one.

[novadolla]

Re: Man or Zone Coverage

It's not about hot-routed streaks. There are fade routes in the game which can't be bumped, and every playbook I've messed with this year (Saints, Dolphins, Pats, Cards) has a bunch of them. If you try to press your DB will lose 100%. These routes can even avoid the jam given by C2 CBs in cloud flats. You can dot them in the gap between the CB and the S with a very high % of success.

For a reference you can look at Gun Y Trio Offset Weak in the Saints PB. The play Saints Cross has the X receiver on one of them, and the play Stick has the Z receiver on one.

Exactly, mcv could be so good but because those routes such a boost off the line you really cant play press coverage

[stinkubus]

Re: Man or Zone Coverage

Exactly, mcv could be so good but because those routes such a boost off the line you really cant play press coverage

With 90+ MCV, or boosts to coverage from sliders, the DB can recover. 2 Man Under is the only defense that makes me have to think twice about throwing it because the window can be so small with an elite CB and/or S to that side.

I don't know how many 90+ MCV players on are the stock rosters, and I don't have time to check RN, but I'm guessing it's not many.

[novadolla]

Re: Man or Zone Coverage

With 90+ MCV, or boosts to coverage from sliders, the DB can recover. 2 Man Under is the only defense that makes me have to think twice about throwing it because the window can be so small with an elite CB and/or S to that side.

I don't know how many 90+ MCV players on are the stock rosters, and I don't have time to check RN, but I'm guessing it's not many.

Trust me doesnt matter what the ratings are, take any bum WR and put a great CB on him and these routes will still toast press coverage, press coverage is great. but not when these boost routes are ran, which leaves you with the only option to play off and in this case its out routes and comeback routes galore.

Again here it is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qtgXHU4FR0&t=185s

[stinkubus]

Re: Man or Zone Coverage

I know from experience playing MUT H2H that DBs can recover when playing 2 Man Under, and only 2 Man Under. Any type of C1, match man, or man blitz and I agree it's an auto-win for the offense.

[SilverBullet19]

Re: Man or Zone Coverage

An interesting thing I thought of while reading your post is this: A number of MUT challenges could not be completed if a number of "Shot" plays were not blue zone beaters.

PA Crossers, for example, is a cornerstone for cheesing a number of the MUT challenges and really there has to be these plays else many challenges would be too frustrating to beat or unbeatable and would have to be removed or adjusted.

Maybe, to justify the beatable blue zones, it is decided that players will just have to "user" to stop these crosser type plays?

It's funny you mention this, because I recently discovered PA Crossers to be a major cheese play. If your inside guy has 90+ speed, he will likely be wide open regardless of coverage. Even if there is a corner and safety on that side of the field, the ignore him until it's too late to recover.

[DSonTL]

Re: Man or Zone Coverage

MUT is such a cancer. And some if it is starting to trickle down to H2H... I’m so happy I’m in 3 leagues. I can enjoy sim play. I love the idea of MUT.. but I had the YouTube influence as a whole for online play


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[edgevoice]

Re: Man or Zone Coverage

It's not about hot-routed streaks. There are fade routes in the game which can't be bumped, and every playbook I've messed with this year (Saints, Dolphins, Pats, Cards) has a bunch of them. If you try to press your DB will lose 100%. These routes can even avoid the jam given by C2 CBs in cloud flats. You can dot them in the gap between the CB and the S with a very high % of success.

For a reference you can look at Gun Y Trio Offset Weak in the Saints PB. The play Saints Cross has the X receiver on one of them, and the play Stick has the Z receiver on one.

Yup, this is a glaring issue that needs to be addressed. It's one thing for an offensive concept to beat a coverage. It happens in the NFL. However, when a receiver can ghost release and gain separation because the corner appears unaware of his assignment, now that is a problem. Cover 2 Sink and Cover 3 Buzz Match will stop this route. However, any type of Cover 3 Press or Man Coverage, even if you shade both outside and over the top, will get smoked.