Truzz Ability - goodbye

[jfsolo]

Re: Truzz Ability - goodbye

They're not super powers lol. Sometimes i wonder if people even play this game before commenting.

"I don't like this feature so I will describe it with a pejorative nickname". It's unfortunate that people choose to roll this way.

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[khaliib]

Re: Truzz Ability - goodbye

Why even use the superpowers? This should have never extended beyond some people have additional arm angles they can throw from, some people are a little more agile than normal, some truck better. I hate that these things go so far beyond realistic football abilities.

And that’s why I always turn them off.

These are actually Delta Formula outcomes that we’ve always been playing with.
They just added an overlay to them with a marketing name attached.

If a player has a “93+” Hit Power and theres a 20pt Delta against Carry rating, the highlight Hit-Stick fumble animation will still trigger w/out the SS/X-Factor Ability

They also noted in a blog how the higher player positional ratings are, the less affect Abilities will have basically because they use the same formulas

[j1mmycr4ckc0rn]

Re: Truzz Ability - goodbye

I had Lamar and the Ravens last year in our league. Truzz was the most useless X-Factor ability I've used yet

1) You have to run 5 times with him to get it in the first place, which kills his stamina

2) He'll probably fumble in one of those 5 carries unless you slide every time

3) When he did get his X-Factor lit up, he was dead by the time I could use it

4) He got injured every other game anyway

Never understood the hate on it because it's really a pointless ability and pretty counterproductive

In regs, it is way OP. I activated it in a close game in the 4th, and just called 5 wide and ran with him every play, chewed up the clock because I could stay in bounds, and scored with under 20 seconds left. (Opponent was super cheese so I didn’t feel bad)

[kehlis]

Re: Truzz Ability - goodbye

Never understood the hate on it because it's really a pointless ability and pretty counterproductive

Doesn’t this explain the hate on it?

[tg88forHOF]

Re: Truzz Ability - goodbye

Oh, and regarding the “pretense,” each and every year the on the field, generic gameplay gets closer and closer to real football, and credit them for doing it. Guys like Oldenburg, thank goodness they are there, instead of more guys like you (no personal offense intended), because these guys are the reason we have things like more realistic movement at the expense of video game whiners complaining that they can’t guard three routes with a MLB anymore.

Honest question: at what point does it become real enough?

As you noted, effort continues to be made toward a more realistic football environment, with some notable recent successes. Is there a point at which you concede that people with a less aggressive simulation mindset, and who enjoy video game elements that make this video game a more engaging video game experience, exist? And that including some elements that satisfy their desires is not only ok, but probably an objectively smart video game design choice for a game that's aiming at as wide an audience as possible?

Especially since, also as you note, the ability to remove those elements from your personal experience exists in the form of a toggle?

Or does being "sim" mean an endless campaign against each and every non-sim element...even those that you don't have to experience if you so choose...as a poor design choice?

Remember, the original premise of this thread was that Truzz should never have existed in the first place.

[ForUntoOblivionSoar∞]

Re: Truzz Ability - goodbye

These are actually Delta Formula outcomes that we’ve always been playing with.
They just added an overlay to them with a marketing name attached.

If a player has a “93+” Hit Power and theres a 20pt Delta against Carry rating, the highlight Hit-Stick fumble animation will still trigger w/out the SS/X-Factor Ability

They also noted in a blog how the higher player positional ratings are, the less affect Abilities will have basically because they use the same formulas

Yeah, some of them are reasonable. It being impossible to throw interceptions against the AI is not reasonable.

[ForUntoOblivionSoar∞]

Re: Truzz Ability - goodbye

Honest question: at what point does it become real enough?

As you noted, effort continues to be made toward a more realistic football environment, with some notable recent successes. Is there a point at which you concede that people with a less aggressive simulation mindset, and who enjoy video game elements that make this video game a more engaging video game experience, exist?

And 2K is releasing an arcade style game for them in the next year or so. Hopefully that forces Madden to specialize on simulation as 2K siphons away their arcade audience, and they can have all their video game arcade fun they want.


Although I'll doubt that will happen due to the hype machine. But it's a nice thought.

And that including some elements that satisfy their desires is not only ok, but probably an objectively smart video game design choice for a game that's aiming at as wide an audience as possible?

Yeah, hopefully it becomes a bad idea due to 2K doing much better than anyone suspects.

Especially since, also as you note, the ability to remove those elements from your personal experience exists in the form of a toggle?

Or does being "sim" mean an endless campaign against each and every non-sim element...even those that you don't have to experience if you so choose...as a poor design choice?

An endless campaign is all you can do.

Remember, the original premise of this thread was that Truzz should never have existed in the first place.

Right, it shouldn't have. Instead, it should just be a coaching adjustment to hold onto the ball at the expense of a couple extra yards and occasional big tackle break, and instead of a 0% chance of fumbling, a greatly reduced chance. You know, have players fall down in traffic like they do in real life when protecting the ball.




But Truzz is symptomatic of the big problem here with these super powers: the need to MARKET THEM has caused a ridiculous OVERFLOW of abilities, when far fewer should exist. So you see, I'm not automatically opposed to abilities. I'm opposed to unrealistic ones, and having so many of them.







For example, here's an ability that should exist: the ability to quickly flip hips to throw across the field like some of the elite QBs can do. But that will never be in the game because you can already throw across the field with little to no penalty. Here's another one that should be in: left handed short passes for right handed QBs, ala Mahomes and Favre. Few can do it, but there's no need for it, because Madden gives virtually no penalty for the body being out of position for a throw.



So, instead of that, maybe you can have an ability for being accurate over a short yardage window when a defender is taking you down. That may actually be in the game, but that's an ability I'd be fine with, because a few elite guys can do it (it's always Mahomes, isn't it...). In the case of the robo-QB Mahomes, maybe extend that ability to twenty-five yards down the field, because he can actually do it.


In fact, the ability to throw accurately twenty-five yards down the field while being smashed IS WHAT SEPARATES Mahomes from the rest. NOT the ability to sometimes throw 80 yards down the field. THAT is NOT why he's special. So not only is the ability lame (Bazooka), but it's not even representative of the player.





So you see, I'm not necessarily against the idea of abilities. I'm against most of the ones in the game. Getting 15 extra yards or perfect accuracy when not pressured isn't what sets Mahomes apart. It's being accurate while he's got a guy hanging on him or when he's parallel with the ground.

[oneamongthefence]

Re: Truzz Ability - goodbye

I think a good neutral counter for both the sim guys and the comp crowd would be to keep truzz but lower all QB injuries by 20. Would make scrambling a much bigger risk and would make the truzz ability something you would think twice about using since there's a greater risk your QB getting knocked out in a game.

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[Aestis]

Re: Truzz Ability - goodbye

Guys, obviously many of you are missing the point.

He fumbled, thus he wasn't in the zone. Any advanced football analytics worth their salt will illustrate that you have a 0% fumble chance on snaps where no fumble occurs, which is the case when you are in the zone.

If he were in the zone, he wouldn't have fumbled, proving Truzz is fine.
Since he wasn't in the zone, he did fumble, proving Truzz is fine.

Logic proves this.

[SmashMan]

Re: Truzz Ability - goodbye

An endless campaign is all you can do.

Well, at least this sentence answered his question.

[Reed1417]

Re: Truzz Ability - goodbye

Guys, obviously many of you are missing the point.



He fumbled, thus he wasn't in the zone. Any advanced football analytics worth their salt will illustrate that you have a 0% fumble chance on snaps where no fumble occurs, which is the case when you are in the zone.



If he were in the zone, he wouldn't have fumbled, proving Truzz is fine.

Since he wasn't in the zone, he did fumble, proving Truzz is fine.



Logic proves this.

Yeah Lamar definitely wasn't in the zone during those clutch moments. As a Ravens fan I'm still hurt by it but it's not like they didn't have plenty of chance to win or were up big at any point. Ugh.

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[IlluminatusUIUC]

Re: Truzz Ability - goodbye

I think a good neutral counter for both the sim guys and the comp crowd would be to keep truzz but lower all QB injuries by 20. Would make scrambling a much bigger risk and would make the truzz ability something you would think twice about using since there's a greater risk your QB getting knocked out in a game.

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I've always thought that the way to counter this is that the camera should zoom way in when the player is holding RT. If they are jamming the Sprint button, that should act as an indicator that they are committed to the run and not also able to read downfield. If you want to roll out while keeping your eyes up, lay off the trigger. That would keep people from doing the Scramble to one side, heave all the way to the other side BS you see sometimes.

[Cory Levy]

Re: Truzz Ability - goodbye

The thing about video games is they are abstractions. We have to accept that the game designers are actively going to break from reality in order to create a toy which creatively engages the user's brain fitting the various pieces together in the effort to produce a successful outcome.

If our rules for game design are stuck within the strict confines of "sim" - they are not, they never have been, and they never will be; not for Madden or any sports game - then we should get rid of all the abilities. In doing so, however, we immediately and objectively make Madden a worse video game because we reduce the possibility space of in-game outcomes and we eliminate strategic options.

Is the argument here really that since video games aren't carbon replicas of real life that it doesn't matter how far NFL video game strays from being a simulation because it'll "never" be exactly like real life so long as they're engaging for the player?

If that's the case I really have to disagree. Especially considering Madden itself had superstar and X Factor abilities in the game a decade ago. Only those "badges" or whatever it was called back then reflected real life much better than the cartoon-ish and over the top abilities we have now. Also, I don't get how removing X Factor abilities would immediately make the game objectively worse. There are plenty of people who turn them off and prefer to play that way.

Madden is literally by contract the only "NFL licensed simulation video game" allowed to be made so yes, I do think it's a bit weird to say that they shouldn't actually worry about being a simulation of the real game. At this point I would actually prefer if Madden just became a for profit, completely arcade style game that pushes "seasons" and mirco-transactions while another company can have their hand at manufacturing a simulation experience.

Making the video game an interesting and engaging football-themed set of reliable tools and scenarios for the person holding the controller is more important than making the football real.

Why is this sentence formed as if you can't perform both? A lot of us crave for a detailed, deep, enriched and engrossing football experience that replicates real life. You think that if we got this it wouldn't be interesting and engaging?

[roadman]

Re: Truzz Ability - goodbye

There is a poster on OS(doesn't post on OS that much anymore) that went to what was called back then, Community Day with the developers of 2k football.

He said a Developer told him that as soon as you put a controller in your hands, realism goes out the window.

Since that exchange, I have considered realism and simulation means different things to different people, so, realism and simulation, in my opinion, is in the "eye of the beholder."

[ForUntoOblivionSoar∞]

Re: Truzz Ability - goodbye

There is a poster on OS(doesn't post on OS that much anymore) that went to what was called back then, Community Day with the developers of 2k football.

He said a Developer told him that as soon as you put a controller in your hands, realism goes out the window.

Since that exchange, I have considered realism and simulation means different things to different people, so, realism and simulation, in my opinion, is in the "eye of the beholder."

It certainly means different things to different people, but if "realism goes out the window," why bother using "Next Gen Stats" to make player motion more realistic?


That comment was by a developer, and it was a cop out by the developer. Just like the comment that infuriated DeuceDouglas back in the day about how Franchise is fine and everyone always wants more.





Regardless, I can assure you that choosing to scramble your QB 5 times for 10 yards in order to be able to see blitzes is fairly far removed from realism, and lighting bolts come from Mount Olympus from the Scepter of Zeus when you read a play is absolutely as far from realism and sim as you can get (I recall seeing that in what I think was a Clint Oldenburg video; thankfully I always turn this feature off, so if that's in the game I have been blissfully spared of seeing it).