**The Different Perspectives of Simulation**

[kingsofthevalley]

Re: **The Different Perspectives of Simulation**

They want a 1-size-fits-all product.

They make a 1-size-fits-NONE product.

They need to piece this thing out. Make an arcade game (online and MUT) for everyone. Make a franchise mode game. Make another great coach/gm game. I don't know if they can make a retro game thanks to the Jim Brown ruling, but I'd love to see it.

If the franchise and coach game weren't subject to the annual release, they might be able to make those modes worth playing.

Absolutely. The three modes (competitive, arcade, and sim) should be individual focus.

[kingsofthevalley]

Re: **The Different Perspectives of Simulation**

I'm going to try not to be all over the place with this; but I'll start by saying that we are from the same era. I grew up playing the Atari 2600 football game where if a running back broke out for a long run, the game would allow you as the defender to run out the opposite side of the screen to get back in the play. So, needless to say I've seen video game football come a longggggggggg way.

As far as "Simulation" goes, just saying that word will have different gamers defining it differently. I've posted this before, but when I bought Out Of The Park Baseball for the first time a few years back, I went over to the OOTP forum. I saw where they were having a discussion about this very thing. Basically to a man, the PC gamers stated that any game that requires input from the user is not considered sim, but arcade. So, in their minds, OOTP Baseball was a true sim and MLB The Show was an arcade game. That was the first time I had ever heard that argument and it definitely didn't/still doesn't fit my own definition of what sim is.

My personal definition of whether a game is sim or not is if it replicates what I see in real life on the field, the court, or the diamond. As far as Madden 23 is concerned, I'd definitely say yes...interceptions included lol(joke). It can be argued how well it plays out...that's up to each individual to determine that for themselves.

My gaming experience has changed over the years. When I was younger and up until about 10 years ago, I valued the User v. User/AI experience. I wanted to be hands on and play every game. But, since then I'm mostly a AI v. AI guy preferring to make gameplanning decisions before the game and then letting the game play out while spectating. And even when I do play User games, I only control one player for an entire play no matter offense or defense so that my input is limited. I've found that to be more rewarding, and more sim for my taste in gaming at this stage of my gaming life.

I've observed, for myself, that playing this way shields me, for lack of better words, from a lot of issues that rear their heads in User dominant controlled games. So, for my personal experience, Madden 23 does a doggone good job of simming what I see on Sundays. It's a beautiful game...especially from the Broadcast Camera. The gameplay can be tweaked through editing, as tedious as it is without a global editor, to my liking; and I haven't touched another football game since it released in August. I use to play older games for my football fixes, but as of now, I don't feel the need to go back to those games unless I just have the urge to play them for fun. Madden 23 is enough for how I enjoy video game football now. It also doesn't hurt thta it gives me a glimpse into what the college game will be like next summer.

Fully agree, 23 has completely wiped my need to go back to any previous version. In fact, its so solid that any future efforts regress the experience I'll be at home here, no problems (Actually, just give me one more good year of Madden with the NCAA title to match and I'm gold!). I think they're on the precipice of an epic football title (at least on the field).

[kingsofthevalley]

Re: **The Different Perspectives of Simulation**

Simulation? when I think of simulation that SHOULD mean simulating what we see on any given Sunday.

Madden as it stands right now (imo) is FAR from being a "simulation product" and therefore shouldn't be marketed as such....the gameplay on the field is very mediocre and stagnate, I understand that the game needs to appeal to a wide audience, but EA is in FAR to deep with this product to do that.

When I say the game should reflect what we see on Sunday's....I want ALL the NFL penalties, I want to see botched snaps, I want the ability to import custom soundtracks into my stadium (Acrisure) for atmosphere and the list could go on and on.

Again, the only thing this game has going for it is the exclusive license.....take away the shield and all the uni's and names and this game is an after thought, there is no way in hell the gameplay is good enough to stand on it's own...

The little Johnny's out there probably have no idea who John Madden was, so the name recognition factor goes right out the window....all they probably care about is usering their favorite player and throw for 10,000 yards and put up 20 td's a game.

So to that I say....simulation SHOULD be what we see on Sunday's....we have different modes in the game that are SUPPOSED to help with this, but like many areas in this game they fail to live up to expectations.

Don't think I could disagree more with that one, to each his own however!!

[kingsofthevalley]

Re: **The Different Perspectives of Simulation**

Honestly, I'm glad you (and anybody else for that matter) enjoy(s) the game but your spiel sounds like hand waving away things that a lot of the fanbase wants. You seem to be pushing the opinion that we want to much out of Madden and should just accept it for what it is: a cartoony, not realistic, non-simulation copy of the real NFL. The problem is that EA is the only company in the world that can make a "simulation" NFL game so therein lies my major gripe with Madden. They don't strive to be a good simulation of the NFL but no one else can even try!

We're also not really being that hard on the game for wanting more things in it. I don't think that because I want comp picks or undrafted free agency or better AI team management or a better progression system or restricted free agency or more league control or more realistic immersion doesn't mean I unfairly want Madden to be as deep as a text based program. I just want more. More deeper and more better.

Finally, I really, really struggle to grasp your idea that M23 is the "pinnacle" of football gaming just because you survived an era of gaming that consisted of dots as players. M23 is a pretty enough game (player models are very weird to me and they all still have those dumb *** horse legs) but lots of things deeper franchise fans clamor for are things that were in the game a decade and a half ago! So, to say things have just been on an upward incline is very bullish. Not to mention the fact that not only did we used to have a deeper franchise, it was also stable enough to play for more than one to five seasons.

Not at all. If it came out that way, that definitely wasn't the intent. It was simply as the title of the post stated. The different perspectives and the reasons why/how people see it that way. I thought I did pretty good articulating how I see sim and the foundation that colors the lense I see it through!

[Ghost Of The Year]

Re: **The Different Perspectives of Simulation**

Don't think I could disagree more with that one, to each his own however!!

I agree withbthis disagree. Yeah, of course there are some areas EA could work on to make Madden more sim but it still does enought that I think it qualifies as a footbal "simulation".