Madden NFL 10: Updated Running Animation

[Alacr1ty]

Re: Madden NFL 10: Updated Running Animation

wow, just wow. guys seriously. this game was terrible in 09, everyone knows this. Tiburon has a team working on 1 the next gen madden 10 right? but they also have a team that has to work on 10 for ps2, psp, and ds. Meaning they get less than a year to put new features into the game. Everyone on this board wants madden to be the best it can be, since its the only nfl game we can get. The last team totally messed madden up, for 3 straight years. This year, Phil, Iand and crew have come in and fixed as many problems as possible. There are obviously still going to be problems. Since there were problems from 3 years of doing nothing. I for one am more then happy and impressed with all the work they've put into this game, and there dedication to the community.

[soxnut1018]

Re: Madden NFL 10: Updated Running Animation

So the OS folks are making huge deal about the running animations...is that the highest priority issue for 10? If so, is that a good thing?

Gotta agree with Ian on this one.

[NFLHITMAN]

Re: Madden NFL 10: Updated Running Animation

wow, just wow. guys seriously. this game was terrible in 09, everyone knows this. Tiburon has a team working on 1 the next gen madden 10 right? but they also have a team that has to work on 10 for ps2, psp, and ds. Meaning they get less than a year to put new features into the game. Everyone on this board wants madden to be the best it can be, since its the only nfl game we can get. The last team totally messed madden up, for 3 straight years. This year, Phil, Iand and crew have come in and fixed as many problems as possible. There are obviously still going to be problems. Since there were problems from 3 years of doing nothing. I for one am more then happy and impressed with all the work they've put into this game, and there dedication to the community.

Ummm I understand where you are coming from but EA themselfs said that those running animations in the green videos would be in Madden 10 not us. We hoped for a better animation but we didn't know if they would do it. They posted those videos to show how they are changing the game and than we see none of it when it comes to the animations.

If EA would not have posted the those videos showing the fixes in Madden 10 than maybe nobody would be getting upset like I was when we saw the actual trailers of Madden 10.

Like I said I have Madden already paid for but it still pisses me off that what we saw in those fix it videos is not what we see in M10. Do I think that Madden 10 has improved? YES! by a long shot but....The core of the game is running animations since it is seen ALL GAME LONG on EVERY PLAY instead of a halftime show that is seen only at halftime.

Don't get me wrong here because I want the halftime show, refs, hand warmers, chain gangs, online franchise but not if we have to sacrifice the core of the game which is the running animations.

If your car can't start do you buy accessories for it like Rims or do you make sure it works and runs perfectly 1st? What use is a car all nice and pretty if the engine it self doesn't produce results?

[DBoweshow8282]

Re: Madden NFL 10: Updated Running Animation

I just think better running animations shouldnt have been promised if they werent 100% sure they would make it in.

[NFLHITMAN]

Re: Madden NFL 10: Updated Running Animation

Gotta agree with Ian on this one.

Running Animations should have been #1 on priorities for Madden 06-07-08-09 & 10.

Like I said in the 1st running animations thread a looooong time ago...This should have been #1, #2, and #3 before Hand Warmers, Chain Gangs, Refs and Fluff.

[Colladie]

Re: Madden NFL 10: Updated Running Animation

Running Animations should have been #1 on priorities for Madden 06-07-08-09 & 10.

Like I said in the 1st running animations thread a looooong time ago...This should have been #1, #2, and #3 before Hand Warmers, Chain Gangs, Refs and Fluff.

There is more than 3 people working on Madden 10

[beau21]

Re: Madden NFL 10: Updated Running Animation

I try to not be to opinionated but MAN there are some people that will just never be satisfied around here.

I mean goodness gracious.. look how bad Madden has been since coming to the 'next-gen' platforms and how people have been wishing to no end for some communication and a new direction from the development team..

Now for Madden 10 we finally are seeing the fruits of what we've been asking for. We have a new development team, a new direction and for the first time in a long time, some optimism that seems likely to be justified.

We have a handful of developers on these boards regularly giving us updates and asking for opinions from us and now that we're starting to get what we've been asking for for so long, it's not enough.

I've messed with some animation and programming software before in some of my engineering classes and like people have said countless times before, NOTHING is as easy to program as you would think.

The jump we've seen so far from Madden 09 to Madden 10 is nothing short of phenomenal. In no way is Madden 10 going to be flawless. I'm not here to say the developers have done no wrong and that this is the year that Madden for certain gets it right. I'm not in position to make a statement like that. All I'm saying is that the development team is obviously trying and I can't believe that we don't have more people that respect that as opposed to demanding more and more.

I, as much as anyone would love to see improved running animations but you know what? If they want to wait until 11 to do it and do it right that's fine with me with all the things they've done and added this year.

It's gotta be give and take. From both sides. There's going to be things we (the consumers) want it that will make it in. There's going to be things that we want that won't make it in. Same with things the developers want it. And sometimes issues arise and things that we want in (or are supposed to be in) have to be sacrificed for one reason or another. It happens.

Who knows? I mean.. maybe they're hoping to go with the road that the throwing animations got this year and go with more signature running styles for next year.

I know this has been a long post and I'm sure I've rambled on but I'm really just tired of seeing all the negatives when we should really be thankful the developers take the time to come on here and share their vision and direction with us and allow us (the consumers) to share our feedback and then (a lot of times) see it directly implemented and/or changed in the game.

Oh.. and if you took the time to read all that.. I appreciate you respecting my opinion just as I try and do for everyone on here. After all.. this is a message board and is a place to share your opinon(s). I just wish more people would do it in respectable manners.

[mrprice33]

Re: Madden NFL 10: Updated Running Animation

but wait a second, those running animations are all without the ball. the bad ones are all ball-carrier based, aren't they?

so is it possible those are in the game, but you just didn't notice them due to them being specific routes?

edit: exactly at the poster above. they did custom throwing styles and kicking styles on top of everything else. who knows what changed running styles can do? what if they have different run styles but they can't get the collision to match up, or the ball to match up, or any one of 1000 different things? would you all rather have pretty running with goofy/weird outcomes?

[SoxFan01605]

Re: Madden NFL 10: Updated Running Animation

Running Animations should have been #1 on priorities for Madden 06-07-08-09 & 10.

Like I said in the 1st running animations thread a looooong time ago...This should have been #1, #2, and #3 before Hand Warmers, Chain Gangs, Refs and Fluff.

I think it's more a question of what they can get done more than priority. I doubt they sat around and said "I know running animations need work, but F that...we gotta get towels!"

I think, if we are to take Ian at his word, they did what they could, but given the work it needed (in relation to it's cooperation with other systems) it only garnered minimal attention.

I agree to an extent with your point. It should be a priority over fluff. It was right to put it behind OL/DL interaction, WR/DB jostling, AI logic, etc though IMO.

Of course, I'd have to see the level of improvement in those other areas before I can 100% claim it worked.

[beau21]

Re: Madden NFL 10: Updated Running Animation

I think it's more a question of what they can get done more than priority. I doubt they sat around and said "I know running animations need work, but F that...we gotta get towels!"

Agreed.

[NFLHITMAN]

Re: Madden NFL 10: Updated Running Animation

I think it's more a question of what they can get done more than priority. I doubt they sat around and said "I know running animations need work, but F that...we gotta get towels!"

I think, if we are to take Ian at his word, they did what they could, but given the work it needed (in relation to it's cooperation with other systems) it only garnered minimal attention.

I agree to an extent with your point. It should be a priority over fluff. It was right to put it behind OL/DL interaction, WR/DB jostling, AI logic, etc though IMO.

Of course, I'd have to see the level of improvement in those other areas before I can 100% claim it worked.

Actually the guy who does the animations posted that he had a chance to redo the running animations in Madden 10 but opted to to 9 man gang tackling so they did say as you posted....

"I doubt they sat around and said "I know running animations need work, but F that...we gotta get towels!"

I will look up the anim8tors thread on it.

[NFLHITMAN]

Re: Madden NFL 10: Updated Running Animation

I think it's more a question of what they can get done more than priority. I doubt they sat around and said "I know running animations need work, but F that...we gotta get towels!"

I think, if we are to take Ian at his word, they did what they could, but given the work it needed (in relation to it's cooperation with other systems) it only garnered minimal attention.

I agree to an extent with your point. It should be a priority over fluff. It was right to put it behind OL/DL interaction, WR/DB jostling, AI logic, etc though IMO.

Of course, I'd have to see the level of improvement in those other areas before I can 100% claim it worked.

This post is right from the guy who does the animations on Madden 10.

<table width="100%" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td width="75"><table width="50" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td width="37"></td> <td style="background-image: url(/vBulletin/images/quotes/07.gif); width: 1px; height: 24px; background-position: center center;" valign="middle" width="100%"> Quote:</td> <td> </td> </tr> </tbody></table> </td> <td align="left">
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</td> <td style="background-image: url(/vBulletin/images/quotes/00.gif); width: 100%; height: 1px;" width="100%"> I would love some more feedback on this from you guys. (Animation Director of Madden (Simon) Here BTW).

The stiffest cycles I went through personally and touched up myself over the last month or so (which was after this video was captured I believe, and the sprinter run cycles were the ones I gave the most love to with some back and forth with Ian Cummings).

FIFA locomotion is amazing, coming from FIFA they spend more time on locomotion than anything else, it's pretty much what FIFA is and they do it better than any game in the world ever has. I am planning/hoping to take their entire locomotion engine next year (it was on the table this year but I felt prioritizing gang tackles would be much more of a game changer and the animation and technical work associated with going from 3 to 9 man gang tackling was pretty immense). Running changes would be purely visual and i really wanted to finish the tackle engine design (2 years in the making) and we wanted much better blocking plus presentation focus was a huge thing from the community. However, we have loads of cycles we could tune up visually, it's certainly not too late for that.

I would like to know of other games that do it better visually as comparison for visual style in the cycles themselves that you guys are talking about, some youtube videos would be a huge help (of games with better run cycles). Even pointing out the moments in our trailer where you think they look bad... To me the WR and DB at the end look great running together and since our loco system got a complete overhaul last year with a lot of positive response we focused on other areas this year (can't redo loco every year...), but maybe I have just be staring at this stuff for too long... More feedback (clips of games that do it better, or pointing out where in our video it looks particularly bad would help us narrow down what you guys are directly talking about here).
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I am posting the Anim8tors original post and in no way am I attacking this man. I am just pointing out that it was a decision on 9 man gang tackling or running animations and they chose 9 man gang tackling instead.

[SoxFan01605]

Re: Madden NFL 10: Updated Running Animation

^^^That's contrary to your previous point though. That's not prioritizing over "fluff"...that's prioritizing needs. You may disagree with the order of precedence, and that's fine (I'm sure we all have our own ideas on that). But that's separate from your original argument that they chose "fluff" like hand warmers, chain gangs, etc. I would hardly call tackling animations fluff.

As I alluded earlier, sometimes prioritization comes down to balancing quality AND quantity. As much as I agree that running animations need work, I would be sorely disappointed if that was ALL that got improved from an animation standpoint. I also think people could make a pretty fair argument that tackling animations needed every bit the work it apparently got, but that's obviously subjective and separate from the point.

EDIT: and Anim8tor's post basically addresses that. It's the amount of work involved in relation to what's addressed that was a key determinant in the why running animations was pushed back.

They both required too much work to get them both done. It wasn't the secondary stuff that pushed it out, but another needed, primary feature.

[NFLHITMAN]

Re: Madden NFL 10: Updated Running Animation

^^^That's countering your previous point though. That's not prioritizing over "fluff"...that's prioritizing needs. You may disagree with the order of precedence, and that's fine (I'm sure we all have our own ideas on that). But that's separate from your original argument that they chose "fluff" like hand warmers, chain gangs, etc. I would hardly call tackling animations fluff.

As I said, sometimes prioritization comes down to balancing quality AND quantity. As much as I agree that running animations need work, I would be sorely disappointed if that was ALL that got improved from an animation standpoint. I also think people could make a pretty fair argument that tackling animations needed every bit the work it apparently got, but that's obviously subjective and separate from the point.

I understand your thoughts and opinion but how many threads on OS over the years has been about Running Animations? Compare that to anything else on this forum or any other forum for that matter when it comes to game development and I bet there is a 5-1 ratio with running animations being the 5.

This is obviously is a huge issue with gamers that play any game and especially when we all play Madden. Like I said " I have Madden 10 already paid for because I see the improvements and like them" I just wish as many others that the Running Animations are the #1 priority over every thing else in the game.

" You would not put new rims, tint, paint, neon light and more on a car when the Engine itself does not work "

Fix the engine 1st than make it pretty!

[NFLHITMAN]

Re: Madden NFL 10: Updated Running Animation

^^^That's contrary to your previous point though. That's not prioritizing over "fluff"...that's prioritizing needs. You may disagree with the order of precedence, and that's fine (I'm sure we all have our own ideas on that). But that's separate from your original argument that they chose "fluff" like hand warmers, chain gangs, etc. I would hardly call tackling animations fluff.

As I alluded earlier, sometimes prioritization comes down to balancing quality AND quantity. As much as I agree that running animations need work, I would be sorely disappointed if that was ALL that got improved from an animation standpoint. I also think people could make a pretty fair argument that tackling animations needed every bit the work it apparently got, but that's obviously subjective and separate from the point.

EDIT: and Anim8tor's post basically addresses that. It's the amount of work involved in relation to what's addressed that was a key determinant in the why running animations was pushed back.

They both required too much work to get them both done. It wasn't the secondary stuff that pushed it out, but another needed, primary feature.

I don't really think that 9 man gang tackling is a need at all