Madden NFL 10 Blog: A Deeper Look Into Pass Blocking

[statum71]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Blog: A Deeper Look Into Pass Blocking

I don't care what anybody says...Ian and this group are improving Madden in a big way.

August can't get here fast enough. I'm anticipating Madden like I normal do The Show.

[Valdarez]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Blog: A Deeper Look Into Pass Blocking

Hmm...again, seems obvious to me, but maybe I'm not explaining it well. See attached image...

[ATTACH]15626[/ATTACH]

In real life, unless that guy is getting held, there is no reason why he can't chase after the ballcarrier after he's ran past him. Instead he's trapped in a really long animation...without the ability to branch out or 'steer', you can't control how the defense reacts to the play.

I get what you are saying now. I was looking at the block up until the HB ran by (at which point he's already out of the play) and didn't think he was held too long there (in fact, it was really short), while you're continuing to view the block while the HB continues up field. Even though the HB is past the defender, you're saying the defensive player should be able to turn up field sooner in order to follow the runner. Makes sense.

Wouldn't a dual block / tackle animation be even better? In the grasp, reaching out, get a hand on the player and transition to the tackle from there? Anychance ProTak can do just that?

[JerryJones]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Blog: A Deeper Look Into Pass Blocking

Hmm...again, seems obvious to me, but maybe I'm not explaining it well. See attached image...

[ATTACH]15626[/ATTACH]

In real life, unless that guy is getting held, there is no reason why he can't chase after the ballcarrier after he's ran past him. Instead he's trapped in a really long animation...without the ability to branch out or 'steer', you can't control how the defense reacts to the play.

My original post was directed more towards the first play in that clip. It looks like the defender falls for the (very odd) spin by the ball carrier, slips, and is blocked down and taken out of the play.

But I see what you are getting at. However earlier in the 2nd play the ball carrier runs right next to the engaged player and could have easily been tackled (or atleast slowed down a little) had the defender stuck his arm out to grab him. Like Valdarez asked will we be able to do something like this or will we have to completely break away from the block, turn up field, and try to make the tackle?

Also I just wanted to ask again about the ref. I (think) I've read the whole thread and didn't miss anything but I don't remember anyone else pointing this out. It's it in no way a game breaker, it just kills immersion once you notice the ref back there gliding around.

[coogrfan]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Blog: A Deeper Look Into Pass Blocking

With regard to APF, here's another clip that illustrates Ian's point about not being able to break out of an animation. Keep your eye on the right DE:

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[kicker]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Blog: A Deeper Look Into Pass Blocking

With regard to APF, here's another clip that illustrates Ian's point about not being able to break out of an animation. Keep your eye on the right DE:

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I don't want to turn this into a 2k thread, but those uncontrollable animations didn't happen where it affected human gameplay at all. I see the point, and if madden 10 fixes that, awesome.

I am more concerned with the non-response to double team blocks. That is just part of football and has always been apart of the 2k series, this should not be rocket science.

The imporvement in lineplay looks very promising though. Would love to hear the double team's are in though....

[Valdarez]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Blog: A Deeper Look Into Pass Blocking

I think it's important to keep in mind that APF2K8 has a very real momentum system built into it, and some of what you are seeing is a player's momentum in play. That's something I would like to see in play in Madden. Even in the example that Ian provided, I would hope that if the blocker engages the defensive player that they reroute / move the defensive player some how with their block. APF2K8's does that, but it's more of carrying out the animation to it's end like Ian pointed out than feeling the effects of the player's momentum.

[djordan]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Blog: A Deeper Look Into Pass Blocking

Great stuff IAN...

BIG IMPROVEMENT YOU GUYS MADE IN REGARDS TO BRANCHING OFF OF BLOCKS....

[Valdarez]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Blog: A Deeper Look Into Pass Blocking

I am more concerned with the non-response to double team blocks. That is just part of football and has always been apart of the 2k series, this should not be rocket science.

You should watch more videos, someone has already called out a double team block in a past video. Sorry, not sure which one it was, but it was there, and it was on the OLine.

Double teams were a problem in 2K's APF2K8 game, as they happened unnecessarily too often, allowing blockers to come through untouched. Nothing worse than having 3 men rush, seeing a double team on the DE to right, with the center moving the other way and the NT allowed to come through pretty much clean. So I guess the addition of double teams will concern me far more than the lack of them.

[roadman]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Blog: A Deeper Look Into Pass Blocking

The imporvement in lineplay looks very promising though. Would love to hear the double team's are in though....

I'm sure we will hear something in the near future. We still have E3, the rest of May, June and July ahead for all this info to pop.

[lgxjames]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Blog: A Deeper Look Into Pass Blocking

as always, good stff ian

[tennesseetitans]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Blog: A Deeper Look Into Pass Blocking

It looks good but the players are a bit too upright. At times they stand perfectly upright, and it doesn't look like they aren't using any real leverage. I could hardly focus on the actual pass rushing animations (which were pretty good overall) due to how unconvincing the postures were. Pass rushers, even the big guys, usually have more bend in their hips and more leg expolsion.

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Look at the fight between these guys. Both are using leverage, in the M10 video, it looked a bit like the guys were dancing as opposed to fighting it out. Now when they get off the blocks, that's when D-Linemen usually run more upright.

[Goffs]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Blog: A Deeper Look Into Pass Blocking

how bout posting some of the double team blocks that 2k has...id like to see them implemented in madden please kthnxbai

as for the quarterback issue..meh..this blog is about the blocking so im not too worried about QB animations YET...im sure Ian will have a blog about quarterback animations in the future

[convince]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Blog: A Deeper Look Into Pass Blocking

I love what EA is doing. Its seems like a big step in the right direction. I am assuming that I am in the minority being one of the few that like different things about 2K and EA football. But sense we are speaking on blocking in general, I would like to call to those that have the 2K5 football or APF 2K8 and a video card to capture some video for me. These are a couple tings I want to see in The next Madden. Double team blocks are a given(show some good examples), and chop blocks as well. But what i really want to see are those occasions where the offensive lineman goes go down and take the legs out from the defender. This would normally happen when the defender is really given the lineman hell. This is not a chop block because normally these are one on one battles. Anyone who have played the game should be aware of what i speak of. I would love to see these blocks implemented into Madden. Those with the ability to capture the video please help me out.

[Moostache]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Blog: A Deeper Look Into Pass Blocking

Hmm...again, seems obvious to me, but maybe I'm not explaining it well. See attached image...

[ATTACH]15626[/ATTACH]

In real life, unless that guy is getting held, there is no reason why he can't chase after the ballcarrier after he's ran past him. Instead he's trapped in a really long animation...without the ability to branch out or 'steer', you can't control how the defense reacts to the play.

Ian - can you comment on this?





Basically what I am concerned about or looking to see if you can address is how will the other defenders react to the play. I have been very impressed by the way 2K8 handled this problem - specifically the way other defenders would combine with the QB's own momentum to make you essentially choose to run or pass but not retain the option to do either - at least not as long as you can have both options in Madden. I think previous Madden releases have used a speed cheat to control this - making almost any QB lame and slow out of the pocket, instead of having different defensive logic. Is that still how this is controlled?

In Madden games, once the QB gets to the outside, a skilled player can buy an inordinate amount of time to throw and can hold the ball waaaaaaay longer than a similar situation in 2K8 (or 2K5). This also leads to unrealistic rushing gains when the Madden defenders in zone defense fail to react to a running QB until he has past the LOS....

Other things that looked good:

[Valdarez]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Blog: A Deeper Look Into Pass Blocking

@Moostach: That's why I said the DE's need to work the outside more and track the QB's step/drop and only head straight for the QB after he stops his drop. Otherwise, if they engage immediately when the ball is hiked, it seems like it could result in the same leave the pocket problems that plagued other versions of Madden as there would be nothing stopping them from running backwards and leaving the pocket.