Madden NFL 10 Blog: A Deeper Look Into Pass Blocking

[Deegeezy]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Blog: A Deeper Look Into Pass Blocking

no you're confused. the vidoes werent showing DT's they were showing 3-4 ends. besides like i said we wont see those guys running the arc, they would want to use their strength to beat their guy. and again, watch the last vid with procedural steering part, the tackle dips under his guy and beats him. without prcedural steering the tackle holds him at bay. if we had a video of guys like osi or mathis and freeney im sure we woulda seen it plain as day. imo the right guys werent chosen to show off the video.

That's a good point that they were showing 3-4 teams in the vids. I don't know why I did not pick up on that.

[djKianoosh]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Blog: A Deeper Look Into Pass Blocking

I'd like to know if they've worked on adding TE and HB's chip blocking to help out their tackles against the elite pass rushers. as the Eagles, I don't want to be sacked 10 times every time I play the Giants just cause they're the Giants. I want to be able to scheme against them and protect my QB.

[Von Dozier]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Blog: A Deeper Look Into Pass Blocking

I like how they used the 2k clip example...I guess they are getting tired of the 2k crap...Nice!!!

I didn't see that as them "getting tired" of it. I see it fully as them learning from 2k's system and how they can use it in their own.

[Deegeezy]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Blog: A Deeper Look Into Pass Blocking

I'd like to know if they've worked on adding TE and HB's chip blocking to help out their tackles against the elite pass rushers. as the Eagles, I don't want to be sacked 10 times every time I play the Giants just cause they're the Giants. I want to be able to scheme against them and protect my QB.

RBs chip-blocking before going out on their route would be nice! I don't think any game has this.

[KANE699]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Blog: A Deeper Look Into Pass Blocking

2 things I noticed........ the names on the back of the jerseys are still huge for some reason.


All the equipment errors


Other than these this blocking is looking great!

[scalise89]

this is all well and great but i was just thinking, do you guys remember seeing the MADDEN 06/Next Gen Trailer with the eagles vs. the giants...I remember being so hyped for that to be the future with fire works and awesome / amazing graphics and everything, well it just doesn't look like that in the current madden games, everything is not as hyped as that video...why is it not? take a look to refresh your memory, can someone explain this... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxyTUaqm2GU

[backbreaker]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Blog: A Deeper Look Into Pass Blocking

That was beautiful Tiburon. I like it very much.

[TombSong]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Blog: A Deeper Look Into Pass Blocking

One thing I pulled from this blog that helps is the example Ian gave about 2K in regards to defenders not recognising situations.

Most I think(I sure did) would have interpreted that as being a "AI" problem when its really players stuck in a animation loop.

With what Ian has proposed to remedy problems in both games sounds logical. But also raises some questions.

The animation windows that will allow defenders a way out you say will aloow the elite linemen to be more disruptive on the initial early window. I love the way it sounds. So scenerio:

If I have Demarcus Ware is shooting from the edge and he hits the pre-engage window upon approaching a Tackle...a average one. I would expect him to win 6 out of 10 times(enough for it to be noticable, a annoyance to the offense to the point they have to adjust). I would love this because it causes the offense to have to adjust.

NOW will the offense be given functions to help them double Ware with line blocking audibles/motion spy(TM)...(where you can send a TE in motion and while he is in motion you can hot assign him to pick up a specific LB or double a DE)

I feel that whatever feature you bring to the table should have direct / game changing impact on the overall football strategy going on during the game.

Your blog of your feature sounds good and I like it but will you tweak it to have IMPACT and give both sides of the ball ways to adjust and counter ?

[CapnKill]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Blog: A Deeper Look Into Pass Blocking

Very nice, looks good. Yes, that was one of the frustrating things with 2K, I'm glad you guys identified that.

And its VERY nice to finally see some other teams! I was really getting tired of Pit vs Az

[drae2]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Blog: A Deeper Look Into Pass Blocking

That was beautiful Tiburon. I like it very much.

Your avatar is beautiful man!! The video looks great too.

[LBzrule]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Blog: A Deeper Look Into Pass Blocking

beautiful. romo got owned rofl. i really like the animations, looks very life like. well done. and to answer someones question about ratings. look at the last clip with procedual steering. thats an elite pass rusher, he completely owns that tackle. the one on the left is the tackle doing a great job keeping the DE at bay.

damn Ian, this brings a tear to my eye. tear of joy

edit: now that you guys mention it, it seems they go straight for the tackle then start to run the arc. guys like freeney fire at the outside shoulder and 'get small' and dip under the tackle to get around him. i mean sometimes the tackle doesnt even touch him. Elite pass rushers dip and get their arm underneath the tackle and go around.

but they did show 3-4 DE's who cant really dip their shoulders as quickly like a freeney or merriman can...

they are in Nickel though. They are staying a little bit lower coming out of their stance than they did at CD. It's looking better. I'd like to see some smaller, faster guys rush the passer. I had some fun with Suggs in the CD build. Should have subbed him in.

[djKianoosh]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Blog: A Deeper Look Into Pass Blocking

RBs chip-blocking before going out on their route would be nice! I don't think any game has this.

for real man.. i see Westbrook do this all the time. Portis too, whenever these guys play the Giants. I watch a TON of NFC East games and nobody leaves their Tackles alone against the Giants' D line. chip blocking is a fundamental part of protection. and like I said, just cause they're the Giants doesn't mean I should be sacked 10 times in every madden game I play against them. I don't want that "predetermined" stuff in the game.

[Boucher]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Blog: A Deeper Look Into Pass Blocking

this is all well and great but i was just thinking, do you guys remember seeing the MADDEN 06/Next Gen Trailer with the eagles vs. the giants...I remember being so hyped for that to be the future with fire works and awesome / amazing graphics and everything, well it just doesn't look like that in the current madden games, everything is not as hyped as that video...why is it not? take a look to refresh your memory, can someone explain this... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxyTUaqm2GU

CGI my friend

[SteelerSpartan]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Blog: A Deeper Look Into Pass Blocking

Looks pretty good at this stage in development...

loved the last part where Flacco got hammered from behind....wouldn't be good if Qbs could easily sprint out of the way his tackle was steering the rusher. I think their needs to be a higher chance of a hold if someone does that


Still not enough footage to say "OMFG Its Fixed" but it looks like we're headed in the right direction.

[Valdarez]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Blog: A Deeper Look Into Pass Blocking

I really like the comparison with APF2K8 that game does so many things well (except sales, heh), but then, it's a game I know really well, so I can relate to it more than Madden. Definitely makes it easier to connect features / functionality that way. I'm probably in the minority on that one though.

I don't quite see where the defender doesn't recognize that someone is running past them in the video below. I have seen animations that I have been unable to break (particularly in the coverage game), but I'm honestly not sure what I'm supposed to be seeing in the clip below (pointers anyone?).<object height="405" width="600">

<embed src="http://vimeo.com/moogaloop.swf?clip_id=4599183&server=vimeo.com&sho w_title=1&show_byline=1&show_portrait=0&color=00AD EF&fullscreen=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always" height="405" width="600"></object>Blocking animations - APF2k8 from easports on Vimeo.

In the first part of the video, you can't see what's going on the entire field, so it's hard to know what made the offensive player react. In the second part of the video, it looks like the defensive player is going after the ball carrier, which is what you want, right? And he's only held up for a moment, which again, is what you want especially once the passing game turns to a running one (i.e. run blocking is in effect).

For typical blocking situations, they implemented much longer animations (instead of short looping ones), and this helped their visual quality quite a bit

I get the concept of a longer running animation, it's something I thought they did with their sprint/running animations.

That steering is so very important. If you watch how 2K handles their DE steering in APF2K8, they steer the DE about a step or two behind where the QB drop should end. Thus as the QB if you pull back too far, especially at the start of a play, before the DE/T have engaged, then you're going to get sacked a lot. This is why I don't think a forced drop back is necessary, and why an automatic one will suffice.

I think one thing you're going to need to change is have the DE's pull more to the outside on their line play (unless stunting. twists and such). The DE's appear to be going straight for the OL in front of them, instead of trying to find a path to the QB and actually being blocked. I say that, becaue if you don't, then you'll never be able to stop a QB from pulling back too far.

1. The DEs should track the QB and follow them backwards step for step until they are forced to engage with the lineman when the QB stops in the pocket.
2. The G/T should only fall back as far as the radius of the pocket allows him (because they know the step fallback for the QB, and are trying to protect an area/pocket) and then he should generally stay to the outside, allowing the QB to stay protected inside the pocket, but not outside of it.
3. QBs that pull back too far should be sacked by DEs who tracked their fallback, and were missed by the Offensive Tackle because the QB was not where he was meant to be.
4. Unless it's a rollout (meaning play calls for a QB rollout), a QB that pulls back and out of the pocket should get heavy pressure by the DEs (again why #1 is important).
5. The Tackle needs to fall back more as well. It's really hard to tell from the video clip, but it looks like the QB's drop is a 5 step drop, but the OT only reacts as though it's a one step drop (at least based on the way 2K's implementation of it works). <object height="405" width="600">

<embed src="http://vimeo.com/moogaloop.swf?clip_id=4599453&server=vimeo.com&sho w_title=1&show_byline=1&show_portrait=0&color=&ful lscreen=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always" height="405" width="600"></object>Madden NFL 10 - Pass blocking & branch windows from easports on Vimeo.