Why is button mashing considered to be not "sim"?

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  • MAzing87
    Pro
    • Jul 2009
    • 597

    #16
    Re: Why is button mashing considered to be not "sim"?

    OP, I get some of what you said. The poster above you, I don't get your analysis, but personally, I don't want the CPU to play the game for me.

    My reasons for going against button mashing has nothing to do with it being sim or not. I don't like the system in that it takes away the opportunity for me to see the "violent" cutscenes that they added because I have to focus on the bottom of my TV to figure out which button to press next. I have said this before and I'll say it here. A good way to implement this feature is to have both players punch in a series of face buttons on screen and the one who enters the buttons more accurately and quickly recovers the football. It's not as "violent" as you would want it, but it makes it much easier to enjoy the cutscenes more.

    I'm not sure who would think that they have the fastest fingers to mash away and break the max speed of players but I personally don't want to mash buttons on every single play every single time. That's what would happen if you wanted to mash buttons to represent players moving their legs. That would be more work than needed and can be annoying. I'm sure there are people who aren't as fast with their fingers, and using this idea, they would never reach a players max speed if they needed to mash buttons every single time.

    And another reason why I'm against button mashing is because of the potential exploiting factor that can go with it. OP, how would you feel if you worked really hard to cause a fumble (you are on defense) by mashing away, and the online opponent is a cheeser with a modded turbo controller, not working as hard or as "violent" as you are to get the ball back when you are down 25-21 with 35 seconds left to play and you have no timeouts? Offense recovers and the game is over.

    Regardless if I have the fastest fingers to win every fumble recovery or not, if any one of you can fund me a couple of dualshock controllers, then I would glady embrace this feature. I don't want to get violent with my controller. I want to have fun and play the game minus the button mashing mechanics.

    Comment

    • mmorg
      MVP
      • Jul 2004
      • 2304

      #17
      Re: Why is button mashing considered to be not "sim"?

      Originally posted by MoneyGames
      After posting plenty of threads and other posts here at OS Ive come to the concrete conclusion that in some, i said some, which is really most, sim players, really dont want to "play" madden. they actually want to just hike the ball and let the CPU do the rest, i think NFL head coach would fit that crowd perfectly.

      The other thing is that the F4F feature really scares most sim players. to begin with theyre bums w very narrow minds and to exclamate that more, they have slllloooooowwwww haaaanndsss, therefore a F4F mini game is something they know they'll lose 8-10 times and would much rather see it out the game.

      just my 2 cents, i know kehlis and mmorg are going to rave about this one. "its not sim" "its not realistic" "it doesnt happen on sundays"

      But this a video game, this is one of the only features that I feel EA has given the user some control over. everything else is up to the CPU AI

      GET YOUR THUMB GAME READY
      No I actually like tapping A to sprint in 2k, it was really fun to have to burst away from a crowd and really get up to top speed. Also pounding on A to break tackles was fun too especially if you had a guy like earl Campbell or another power back. I think it would be a welcome addition to the Madden series and even NCAA 06 had it to an extent.

      Madden really needs to incorporate it somehow and add true analog control to the joystick. That would really increase the amount of control we have over our runners and make it more realistic. As long as an overhaul of the physics in the game is included with this change I will be a very happy Madden customer.
      Check me out on Twitch and YouTube

      Comment

      • canes21
        Hall Of Fame
        • Sep 2008
        • 22921

        #18
        Re: Why is button mashing considered to be not "sim"?

        Mashing buttons really doesn't break controllers. I have the same original XBOX controllers I have had since they came out with the littler versions. I played 2k5 religiously too the past 4 years and button mashing occurs every play.
        “No one is more hated than he who speaks the truth.”


        ― Plato

        Comment

        • mmorg
          MVP
          • Jul 2004
          • 2304

          #19
          Re: Why is button mashing considered to be not "sim"?

          Originally posted by MAzing87
          I'm not sure who would think that they have the fastest fingers to mash away and break the max speed of players but I personally don't want to mash buttons on every single play every single time. That's what would happen if you wanted to mash buttons to represent players moving their legs. That would be more work than needed and can be annoying. I'm sure there are people who aren't as fast with their fingers, and using this idea, they would never reach a players max speed if they needed to mash buttons every single time.
          It's not about pressing it very very fast, players have a top speed and they still can't get above it no matter how fast the buttons are pressed. Sure the players with the more nimble fingers will be able to get their guys to top speed more, but those guys are also able to do more complicated moves with the players they are controlling anyway. You might as well say that everyone should just play coach mode because someones physical skills shouldn't effect the players on the field. This is one area where Money Games and I can agree on user skills.
          Check me out on Twitch and YouTube

          Comment

          • Deelron
            Rookie
            • Feb 2006
            • 199

            #20
            Re: Why is button mashing considered to be not "sim"?

            I'm not a big fan of button mashing, mostly because it seems silly to me most of the time, particularly while running. I know when I'm actually running I don't have to focus to much on getting a rhythm exactly right, my body just handles that for me, and I'd imagine for a professional athlete it'd be so second nature it'd just be superfluous. It'd be like having to hit a button to stand up straight, just seems to be extra for little gain that doesn't bear much resemblance to the actual sport being simulated.

            Additionally, I don't care for the button mashing for the fumble for a different reason, mainly because research by people like Football Outsiders and the like have showed no recognizable correlation between skill and recovering a fumble, showing that on a year to year basis it's luck and over time it's a coin flip. I wouldn't advocate a button mash mini-game to win the opening coin toss, and I don't care for something that appears to be equally dependent on luck.

            That being said, kudos for the implementation of the fumble mini-game, the fact that it's easily able to turn off makes it a good deal for both sides.

            Comment

            • leo2k2ndc
              Pro
              • Nov 2007
              • 884

              #21
              Re: Why is button mashing considered to be not "sim"?

              *YAWNNNNNNNN* Wake me up when something new is posted ....
              PSN = Leo202ndc

              Comment

              • canes21
                Hall Of Fame
                • Sep 2008
                • 22921

                #22
                Re: Why is button mashing considered to be not "sim"?

                Originally posted by leo2k2ndc
                *YAWNNNNNNNN* Wake me up when something new is posted ....
                Wake me up when something constructive is posted.
                “No one is more hated than he who speaks the truth.”


                ― Plato

                Comment

                • Only1LT
                  MVP
                  • Jul 2009
                  • 3010

                  #23
                  Re: Why is button mashing considered to be not "sim"?

                  Originally posted by MAzing87
                  OP, I get some of what you said. The poster above you, I don't get your analysis, but personally, I don't want the CPU to play the game for me.

                  My reasons for going against button mashing has nothing to do with it being sim or not. I don't like the system in that it takes away the opportunity for me to see the "violent" cutscenes that they added because I have to focus on the bottom of my TV to figure out which button to press next. I have said this before and I'll say it here. A good way to implement this feature is to have both players punch in a series of face buttons on screen and the one who enters the buttons more accurately and quickly recovers the football. It's not as "violent" as you would want it, but it makes it much easier to enjoy the cutscenes more.

                  I'm not sure who would think that they have the fastest fingers to mash away and break the max speed of players but I personally don't want to mash buttons on every single play every single time. That's what would happen if you wanted to mash buttons to represent players moving their legs. That would be more work than needed and can be annoying. I'm sure there are people who aren't as fast with their fingers, and using this idea, they would never reach a players max speed if they needed to mash buttons every single time.

                  And another reason why I'm against button mashing is because of the potential exploiting factor that can go with it. OP, how would you feel if you worked really hard to cause a fumble (you are on defense) by mashing away, and the online opponent is a cheeser with a modded turbo controller, not working as hard or as "violent" as you are to get the ball back when you are down 25-21 with 35 seconds left to play and you have no timeouts? Offense recovers and the game is over.

                  Regardless if I have the fastest fingers to win every fumble recovery or not, if any one of you can fund me a couple of dualshock controllers, then I would glady embrace this feature. I don't want to get violent with my controller. I want to have fun and play the game minus the button mashing mechanics.
                  Lol

                  Originally posted by mmorg
                  No I actually like tapping A to sprint in 2k, it was really fun to have to burst away from a crowd and really get up to top speed. Also pounding on A to break tackles was fun too especially if you had a guy like earl Campbell or another power back. I think it would be a welcome addition to the Madden series and even NCAA 06 had it to an extent.

                  Madden really needs to incorporate it somehow and add true analog control to the joystick. That would really increase the amount of control we have over our runners and make it more realistic. As long as an overhaul of the physics in the game is included with this change I will be a very happy Madden customer.
                  Madden did used to have button mash to break out of tackles. The tackle animation that you could break out of was always the same so you knew when you could do it. It was pretty cool. Like it better than using special moves to "branch" (no idea why they call it that) tackles.
                  "You mustn't be afraid to dream a little bigger, darling."

                  Comment

                  • Krodis
                    Rookie
                    • Jul 2008
                    • 491

                    #24
                    Re: Why is button mashing considered to be not "sim"?

                    Personally, I just hate button mashing. In any game. It's annoying, it's uncreative, I just hate it.

                    That said, if you really want the player to have control in the fight for the fumble, I really can't think of another way to do it. I'll probably turn it off myself though.

                    Comment

                    • canes21
                      Hall Of Fame
                      • Sep 2008
                      • 22921

                      #25
                      Re: Why is button mashing considered to be not "sim"?

                      Is holding the Right Trigger creative?
                      “No one is more hated than he who speaks the truth.”


                      ― Plato

                      Comment

                      • Lenn_nox
                        Rookie
                        • Jul 2009
                        • 28

                        #26
                        Re: Why is button mashing considered to be not "sim"?

                        Originally posted by canes21
                        Seriously I don't get why people say it is not sim. I love sim games and feel 2k8 did the best job to date so far. It had button mashing. Can someone please tell me why it is not sim at all?

                        I mean people complain about Fight for the Fumble because of the button mashing. I don't see what else EA could have done though. Button mashing is as violent as you can get with a controller and the fumble pile-ups are the most violent things in football and thats a fact. They kind of go hand in hand if you ask me.

                        Then people get angry and say its not "sim" when people want the option to button tap for sprint. If you ask me smashing A to sprint is a lot more realistic than holding a button. By holding the button your player will always go the same speed. By button smashing you can control your speed from a steady jog to a faster jog that allows you to cut, or you can go out and tap it fast and sprint. You basically control the ball carriers feet. The faster you tap, the faster he starts to move his legs.

                        I also notice people don't truly understand the concept behind button sprinting. They seem to think that it allows you to go past your max speed when in reality thats not true at all. Once you hit the "sprint" stage your runner runs to his 93 speed or whatever his rating may be. It doesn't allow Haynesworth to outrun McNabb for a pick 6 because I have a faster thumb.

                        The last thing I want to talk about is breaking or branching out of tackles with button mashing. People also seem to think this is fake or unsim. When you have to think about it though. Its not going to allow you to break out of someone who has a high 95 tackle rating. It gives you a fighting chance and allows you to pick up those extra yards. I also look at this as if you are controlling the runners feet once again. The faster you tap the button the faster and harder he keeps his feet moving so he can escape the tackle or at least gain those few yards needed for the first down.

                        Button mashing may seem like a bad idea or a gimmicky one too, but if you look at it, it really is a lot more realistic than you think.

                        Thoughts?

                        Canes, what you are really asking people here is..

                        "Why is it that developers can't please everybody"?

                        Dude I agree this is a viable way to recreate a fumble recovery with a controller.

                        But keep in mind when you post, that if people can complain .... THEY WILL!

                        Comment

                        • Bootzilla
                          MVP
                          • Jul 2002
                          • 1433

                          #27
                          Re: Why is button mashing considered to be not "sim"?

                          I guess if properly implemented button mashing is alright in certain circumstances. I'm not a fan of it. I feel that in most instances the things you button mash are actually things that are instinctively done.

                          When 2k used button mashing for it's jump balls in basketball I thought that was really stupid. In their football games, I felt like I was running around with a can of spinach, Popeye style ready to power up to truck someone. I thought that was the dumbest thing ever. A lot of people really liked it though. To each his own.

                          I think where the "sim" part comes in to play is that "sim guys" would prefer to beat the computer or human opponent by out smarting them by using superior strategy and play calling. Most of the guys that are great button mashers are also great "rocket catchers" and superior glitch finders.

                          It's like with boxing games when you're playing defense, looking for openings, counter punching, and fighting a strategic fight and your 9 year old nephew randomly mashes buttons and beats you, ha ha. Not sim.

                          Comment

                          • CreatineKasey
                            MVP
                            • Sep 2007
                            • 4897

                            #28
                            Re: Why is button mashing considered to be not "sim"?

                            I love the tapping. It makes things more challenging and involving.
                            Xbox Live Gamertag: CreatineKasey

                            M - I - N - N - E - S - O - T - A

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                            • canes21
                              Hall Of Fame
                              • Sep 2008
                              • 22921

                              #29
                              Re: Why is button mashing considered to be not "sim"?

                              I really don't see how button mashing = RC'er. When 2k5 came out I had a record of 30 -0, or around there. I could tap faster than anyone and if I broke into open field with Clinton Portis, I never lost. Just because I tapped extremely fast didn't mean I was using money plays in that game. In fact, I usually just ran the ball 40 times a game because I just love running the ball.

                              I still have the same finger speed because my guns always get locked in Call of Duty because I shoot over the fire limit, but when I play Madden I still pound the ball at least 30 times a game. Heck, I didn't even know how to RC until I came to OS.
                              “No one is more hated than he who speaks the truth.”


                              ― Plato

                              Comment

                              • MAzing87
                                Pro
                                • Jul 2009
                                • 597

                                #30
                                Re: Why is button mashing considered to be not "sim"?

                                Originally posted by Bootzilla
                                I guess if properly implemented button mashing is alright in certain circumstances. I'm not a fan of it. I feel that in most instances the things you button mash are actually things that are instinctively done.

                                When 2k used button mashing for it's jump balls in basketball I thought that was really stupid. In their football games, I felt like I was running around with a can of spinach, Popeye style ready to power up to truck someone. I thought that was the dumbest thing ever. A lot of people really liked it though. To each his own.

                                I think where the "sim" part comes in to play is that "sim guys" would prefer to beat the computer or human opponent by out smarting them by using superior strategy and play calling. Most of the guys that are great button mashers are also great "rocket catchers" and superior glitch finders.

                                It's like with boxing games when you're playing defense, looking for openings, counter punching, and fighting a strategic fight and your 9 year old nephew randomly mashes buttons and beats you, ha ha. Not sim.
                                Bingo!!!!

                                That's what I want in a sim game. Not only that but I want to execute the play where there isn't any discrepancies involved or unrealisti occurences (like TEs running faster than a secondary, passes being thrown across the field while a QB is running the other way, etc). And the plays don't have to be successful. I can live with failing to exectute plays if my opponent is able to stop me on offense or he calls a great play to counter mine on defense.

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