3-4....NOBODY gets sacks, NEEDS FIXED!!!!

[maddenislife]

Re: EA needs to fix the 3-4 Defense!!!

Exactly! That's just what I talked about in the other thread I made... I'll post it here and delete the other one.

Separate Depth Charts for 4-3 and 3-4 teams. (This is just an example)

CB---------- 5T--- NT--- 5T---------------- CB
-------DE/OLB- MLB - MLB- DE/OLB--------

----------------S ---------- S-----------------------

5T (5-technique for lack of a better term), NT, and DE/OLB would all have their own specific rating qualifications. You want Glenn Dorsey to be your NT? Well his rating is going to take a hit because while he might play well as a DT in a 4-3, there are different attributes that make a 3-4 NT more effective.

The 5T for laziness sake (because EA wont want to spend the time anyway) their rating qualification could be the same as or close to DT ratings... but a different position would be nice because they have different responsibilites/attributes required to play the position.

Finally, what makes the 3-4 nightmares for QBs, the DE/OLB. Having a totally seperate rating for this position would eliminate the ability to plug any OLB in and be sucessful. Derrick Brooks is a HOFer but would not survive as an OLB in a 3-4. They need to have ratings similar to (but not exact) of DE. This way when you switch a low-70s Vernon Gholston to DE he doesnt go up to 90. But there should be a slight drop off when you switch a DE to DE/OLB because of coverage responsibilites.

Another thing this would improve is the Draft in Franchise Mode. The CPU Cowboys would not draft a DE who is 6'3" 255lbs and expect him to play the 5-Technique in their 3-4. Instead, players who have the DE/OLB position would default to whatever position best suits them for the scheme they are drafted into. Same would work with Free Agency when say Shawne Merriman isn't resigned. Instead of going to the Saints to play OLB, he would be switched to play DE because that is what their scheme dictates (much like how OLB Greg Ellis for the Cowboys is now DE Greg Ellis for the Raiders).

Simmed stats in Franchise are scewed because the same sim logic is applied to both 3-4 and 4-3 teams where DE's and DT's get the most sacks, when we all know that is FALSE! Creating all new positions and depth charts would allow for stats to be realistic and a good step in the right direction for gameplay.

and that emulates my feelings exactly...good post

[Obelysk]

Re: 3-4....NOBODY gets sacks, NEEDS FIXED!!!!

I love the idea of twineers and different depth chart I think that can help some of the problems. Also they need to differentiate between the SILB and WILB which have different roles on the defense.

[mvandor]

Re: EA needs to fix the 3-4 Defense!!!

It seems that when I use the 3-4 in my franchise my Defensive Ends and Defensive Tackle get the most sacks out of any position on the team. In the 3-4 that doesn't happen...The outside Linebackers get most of the sacks..and in Madden 2010 Offline Franchise the Sim stats don't show that... I think Ea needs to fix that and also make it easier for an OLB to get sacks.

Another Problem is that the CPU AI blocks the same for a 3-4 defense as it does for a 4-3 defense..that needs to be fixed.....

Also during the off season during the draft and Free Agency Ea needs to address some things

Scenario 1:

The CPU Chargers enter free agency looking to upgrade their DE because Igor Olshansky signed with the Cowboys last year and hasn't been replaced. So they scour the free agent world and pick up... Dwight Freeney? What do you do? Now a 3-4 team has just signed a DE that doesn't fit their defense yet his ratings wont take a hit because they are universal for DE's in 3-4 and 4-3. And the CPU certainly wont make the switch to OLB.

Scenario 2:

The CPU Chiefs enter the 2010 draft looking to upgrade their OLB... they just switched to a 3-4 defense last year and need a PASS RUSHER. Sitting at the 11th pick there's an OLB... 6'0" 232 with 45 POW and 56 FIN... Might be a great fit at MLB or outside for a 4-3 team, but the CPU wont switch positions. But, 4 picks later the Steelers take a DE who is 6'5" 255 lbs who has a speed rating of 83. This guy who would, in reality, switch to OLB in their defense... but not in Madden!

The hybrid position would fix this so that who ever drafts them, they default into whatever position is more appropriate for the scheme... either DE or OLB.

This needs to be fixed


Special Thanks to "ImSkyKid"

100% agree, the 3-4 executes very poorly compared to reality in this game, the LB's cannot break free of the blocks perhaps because of strength ratings bellow that of OL/DL.

[bigal093]

Re: 3-4....NOBODY gets sacks, NEEDS FIXED!!!!

well i think it helps a little bit, when you change the scheme to stop the run for the DE, DT, and OLBs, then balanced for MLB. all at 100 tendency. This worked pretty well for stats when simmed. the steelers lead the league in sacks and farrior had 9(a little unreal) and either woodley or harrison had 11. but this could just be chance though.
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[monkeybutlerz]

Re: 3-4....NOBODY gets sacks, NEEDS FIXED!!!!

i struggle getting sacks, b/c the problem is the D-line doesn't ever eat up anyone more than one player

casey hampton can eat up 2-3 IRL
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Great NTs do get double and sometimes triple teamed, but that's generally on running plays, if I'm not mistaken. The main problem IMO is that the 3-4 OLBs don't win their one-on-one matchups very well. I'd like to see them properly run the arc and get that dip under the tackle. The 3-4 is also effective because generally the line has no idea where the extra rush is going to be coming from.

Disguising plays, faking blitzes, mixing up where the rush is coming from, overload blitzes, etc. just don't really equate to a solid pass rush from the 3-4 defense in this game.

[sportyguyfl31]

Re: 3-4....NOBODY gets sacks, NEEDS FIXED!!!!

There's never been a football game that has gotten the 3-4 completely right. Not a one

[monkeybutlerz]

Re: 3-4....NOBODY gets sacks, NEEDS FIXED!!!!

There's never been a football game that has gotten the 3-4 completely right. Not a one

True, but doesn't mean that it's right. Especially now, when so many teams in the league are utilizing it and so many star players play in those systems (Suggs, James Harrison, Lamar Woodley, Shawne Merriman, Demarcus Ware, Joey Porter, Ed Reed, Troy Polamalu, Ray Lewis, Shaun Rogers, Haloti Ngata, etc.) it has to be implemented in Madden.

The goal of the development team is to capture the essence of the sport and allow its users to get to enjoy the experience. When you can't take your favourite team and play with the system that they employ successfully on Sundays (i.e. Ravens and Steelers Ds), then it takes away from that experience and those teams lose part of their identity.

[steelers1]

Re: 3-4....NOBODY gets sacks, NEEDS FIXED!!!!

if EA had a Steelers/Ravens fan on the team, I bet this would have been their 1st priority. I don't like the Ravens, but hardcore fans of both teams know and love their defenses.

[rickywal]

Re: EA needs to fix the 3-4 Defense!!!

This is why I think a "HYBRID" position or DE/OLB and separate depth charts would work. All the current players and CPU generated rookies that fall in to the "HYBRID" position would receive that distinction.

Players like Mario Williams, Julius Peppers, Patrick Kerney would stay as DE.

D Ware, Dwight Freeny, Shawne Merriman, Aaron Maybin would become DE/OLB or "HYBRIDS" and would switch to their most appropriate position depending on which team picks them up in free agency.

Vince Wilfork, Casey Hampton, BJ Raji would be NT whose rating would be different than DT. Like in the post above, if you move Glenn Dorsey from DT to NT, his ratings will drop because being an elite NT is different than DT.

5T could have similar attributes to DT... Chris Canty, Richard Seymore, Luis Castillo, and Tyson Jackson could be picked up and play in the correct position whether 3-4 or 4-3.

If a 3-4 team picked up a 4-3 OLB via free agency, their rating would take a hit because the HYBRID position has different qualifications associated to it.

Almost half the teams in the NFL run some variation of the 3-4 and it's about time that is reflected throughout the game.

I think they should all get just DE, IL (interior lineman) or LB. Players that are versatile ('Hybrids') and even some that are not so should have 'playable positions'. Already ratings rise and fall when you put them in different positions and all this would do is key you into positions they can play. At the moment I think some people feel a little guilty dropping a LB in at DE when he is rated better there but in the NFL if a coach sees a player that would be better at another position they make the switch.

I do agree though that NT and DT should be different and actually have some variance in the ratings of what players better play that position.

[bigal093]

Re: 3-4....NOBODY gets sacks, NEEDS FIXED!!!!

if EA had a Steelers/Ravens fan on the team, I bet this would have been their 1st priority. I don't like the Ravens, but hardcore fans of both teams know and love their defenses.

idk if there aren't any fans of the ravens/steelers on the team, b/c they are popular teams, but i do agree, i know and love the steelers D
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[bigal093]

Re: 3-4....NOBODY gets sacks, NEEDS FIXED!!!!

last post like 2 days ago, and the thread is already back to page 21!!! man the forums are jumping. it took me like 15 min to find it. lol......i really hope they can patch some AI changes in the 2nd patch, for the 3-4. I think that is a fair request. just make the D-Lineman tend to plug the holes and take up more than one guy. or run stop, or whatever but im sure there's something that can be done as far as the AI in a patch. then i really hope, and really wan't a complete overhaul of the 3-4 in madden 11. make me want big men to clog the line. not dwight freeney. i wan't players like him to be pretty bad at DL in the 3-4 and great at LB, but also factor in pass coverage.
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[Bulldogs78]

Re: 3-4....NOBODY gets sacks, NEEDS FIXED!!!!

Guys, read my thread on how to create great D and Versus's thread. Combine the two. With 3-4, you'll see the difference. Big difference.

[hyacinth1]

Re: 3-4....NOBODY gets sacks, NEEDS FIXED!!!!

I think it also depends on your team w/ the sacks. I am using the niners and I'll be lucky to sniff a sack in a game. I've used other teams in exhibition games and found better defenses will get sacks, i.e. Pitt. That's one thing I like about this years game, you can really see the difference in the ratings.

[Gotmadskillzson]

Re: 3-4....NOBODY gets sacks, NEEDS FIXED!!!!

Yeah this year it really does matter what team you playing as.

[bigal093]

Re: 3-4....NOBODY gets sacks, NEEDS FIXED!!!!

but i would have a ton more success with any team if they used a 4-3 instead of a 3-4. the 3-4 limits you. it doesn't work realistically so that is where it doesn't really differ at all in how players play than the 4-3 so it makes it less effective.
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