Are Levels of play ruining gameplay?

[Tyrant8RDFL]

Re: Are Levels of play ruining gameplay?

If players only performed based on their ratings, you literally couldn't win with a team that was worse than the team you're playing against. The higher rated OVR team would always win, because they have better rated players.

This is not true, and actually present a great challenge to the gamer to see if we can defeat the favorite.

Now we know in sports the phrase they use when a upset takes place. "And that is why we play the game"

You can not fall into what looks good on paper , because if that was the case no one would watch sports and betting on the game would be a breeze, but it is not easy and the sport is unpredictable, and that my friend is the beauty of the game.

A lower seeded team can beat any team, but I agree so much has to go right and luck sometimes gets involved, but no one should ever say a good team will always beat a bad team. That is not true.

Example. Raiders beating the Eagles this season , and last season how the Cardinals made it to the super bowl. That was something not many saw coming.

I can go on and on with games that were upsets , but Im sure you get the picture.

Also by having a realism setting it would really put your GM skills to the test when your rebuilding a very bad team, and make it extremely satisfying when you generate a winning team.

The problem with the idea of a "realism setting" is that people have their own idea of what constitutes a "realistic" experience. Ask 10 different people what they think of a certain slider set or difficulty setting and you'll likely get 10 different answers.

Yes when using sliders you are 100% correct. Everyone has their own idea on what is a realistic setting, but there has never been a setting where it was told to us that this level represents players ratings and attributes to their real life performance, so we turn to sliders and try to capture that.

When I mentioned sliders in my post I was trying to say that sliders can not generate a realistic level of performance of the players.

[Tyrant8RDFL]

Re: Are Levels of play ruining gameplay?

thats a good question i have never noticed a difference strategically, and since they get a physical boost i would have to say yes it ruins gameplay....

different levels streach ratings IMO, this logic is extremely flawed and i wish the difficulty levels forced us to defend a more aggressive cpu looking to use the entire playbook instead of a cpu that gets better physical abilities.

the cpu FB cant block freeney on all pro but on all madden he can pancake him, thats bad gameplay, to fix this why not have the FB go for his legs or play with higher risk methods like holding him and risk the penalty,

Exactly why I had written this post. Thank you

Im sure more will see the light on this when they really think about it.

[carnalnirvana]

Re: Are Levels of play ruining gameplay?

This.

That is a definite problem w/ the game engine that needs to be fixed ASAP. The ratings on All Madden have no impact, a rookie CPU QB rated 55 can come in and torch you like he's Tom Brady. That needs to be fixed.

the ratings IMO is the biggest thing wrong in this game, a guy like joey porter a pass rusher should be rated nicely to work the d line, if he ever dropped back in coverage he should be burned, maybe he can play a 5 yd zone for maybe 5 seconds the most. his coverage stats should be in the 30's at most.

he should have single digit ratings for blocking( not 47), he should have little to no catch, his agility( not that it matters in madden) should be less than 50. other than in a 3-4 scheme he should be terrible.

but the game uses the same scheme for most teams so joey has to be rated allround to fit the same plays and all round LB would have....

i remember marvin harrison had a stiff arm of about 55, spin in the 80's, juke in the 80's slusiveness in the 80's

THATS why when the cpu catches the ball he turned into a RB carring guys and breaking tackles, anybody who watched 88 play know he got down after a short pick up and his yac was on big plays

the ratings are too similar for any player to stand out and thanks to the OVR rating if you edit guys they become garbage on the team

[roadman]

Re: Are Levels of play ruining gameplay?

Exactly why I had written this post. Thank you

Im sure more will see the light on this when they really think about it.

As long as your realism mode implements an upset mode, I'm good to go with your idea.

[Tyrant8RDFL]

Re: Are Levels of play ruining gameplay?

As long as your realism mode implements an upset mode, I'm good to go with your idea.

Please elaborate specifically?

The more detailed information the better.

[oneamongthefence]

Re: Are Levels of play ruining gameplay?

It just means that a lower rated team would have to out strategize a better team. Realism would suggest that the better rated team would always win but ask the super bowl giants. Their team many would say should have lost but they outplayed and out strategized the patriots. Upsets do happen so I agree that a lower rated team should have to work harder to beat a higher rated team. Cause that's realism.

[SA1NT401]

Re: Are Levels of play ruining gameplay?

the problem is that 98% of all the ratings are pretty worthless and are more there for show than anything else. They perform based on the difficulty settings and not their attributes (aside from Speed and Acceleration of course).

If ratings actually mattered, difficulty levels would actually work. But...ratings dont....really matter.

[Only1LT]

Re: Are Levels of play ruining gameplay?

I came to realize that Madden should have a level of play called Realism.

In this level you will get the results of the players true attributes and raitngs, and this will determine the true outcome of a play.

Where matchups really mean something, and having a real gameplan to exploit a teams weakness means something.

With levels being set from rookie to All Madden. Your not getting a true representation of the sport. In rookie star players play below thier level, and in All Madden you get low skilled players playing above their level, but we do not have that level where players play true to their abilities.

I understand why they have done this, and that is cool, but I think if there is one level that truly has the players perform to their real abilities. You can really get that unpredictable play we want, and at the sametime really play teams that duplicate their true to life style of play.

To clear this up some more. Players want realistic results, but by picking a level of play either the game is to easy or to hard, but we do not have that level where from game to game it differs from getting blown out to a easy win, or a battle to the end all in the same season. Usually to get something like this you would have to change the level of play during that season.

What I would suggest is make 3 levels of play.
Rookie
Realism
All Madden

I think this would be great , and present a clearer picture for playing football on Madden.

I know someone is going to mention this , but sliders do not do it.

I hear what you are saying, but I think that this is something that the developers, past and present, have been trying to accomplish all along. They just have not been successful at it.

[Only1LT]

Re: Are Levels of play ruining gameplay?

If players only performed based on their ratings, you literally couldn't win with a team that was worse than the team you're playing against. The higher rated OVR team would always win, because they have better rated players.

Not true. Lesser teams beat upper echelon teams all the time in real life. If you scout your opponent and come up with the right gameplan and execute that gameplan, then on a given day, you can beat anyone. A videogame would be no different, especially if you are talking about human vs human.

[BezO]

Re: Are Levels of play ruining gameplay?

Difficulty & realism are 2 different things, or at least they should be. IMO, realism is about how the game moves... players adhering to the laws of physics, running at relative speeds, reactions, tendencies, animations, ect. Difficulty should control how much timing of moves, play calling, ect effect the outcome of plays.

Example: 90 elusive RB versus 60 tackle DB. On whatever level is deemed realistic, jukes/spins should require good timing and work at a certain rate. On higher difficulties, jukes/spins should require better timing to work at that same rate. On lower levels, timing should be less strict. Either way, the game still plays realistic(according to my definition), but takes more skill/knowledge on higher difficulties and less on lower difficulties. Said another way, difficulty should only effect the user, not the CPU.

As for good teams always winning, the better team wins most of the time. A gamer choosing a lesser team should win for the same reasons they do IRL... better preparation, better play calling, better performance, better effort, ect. I'm not sure why anyone would want teams playing at the same level. What would be the sense of using one team over another other than the colors & names? When you pick a lesser team, you should embrace the challenge or pick a better team.

[carnalnirvana]

Re: Are Levels of play ruining gameplay?

i wish difficulty was expressed by a teams play calling. rookie/pro should be hands offs mixed in with short throws. cpu not really aggressive to claw out every first down...

allpro - the cpu know how to set up big plays down the field, more aware of the down markers and the play to get them there, and more aware of the end of the first half momentum swings.

all madden - the cpu wants to win, they set up play action, they blitz, they fake blitzes, the cpu USES PUMP FAKES, more screens, 4th and 3 conversions attempts in opposition territory randomly, fake onside kicks ramdomly, the cpu risks penalties, gamble on picks

all ratings should be the same on every difficulty, but the mentality should change

there is no mental agression in madden, its all stat boost

[Tyrant8RDFL]

Re: Are Levels of play ruining gameplay?

It just means that a lower rated team would have to out strategize a better team. Realism would suggest that the better rated team would always win but ask the super bowl giants. Their team many would say should have lost but they outplayed and out strategized the patriots. Upsets do happen so I agree that a lower rated team should have to work harder to beat a higher rated team. Cause that's realism.

And it also adds that much more enjoyment when you win those games. You would really feel like you executed a great game plan, and truly earned that victory.

the problem is that 98% of all the ratings are pretty worthless and are more there for show than anything else. They perform based on the difficulty settings and not their attributes (aside from Speed and Acceleration of course).

If ratings actually mattered, difficulty levels would actually work. But...ratings dont....really matter.

Well hopefully they do matter this year, so we can experience a better game of football.

I hear what you are saying, but I think that this is something that the developers, past and present, have been trying to accomplish all along. They just have not been successful at it.

Maybe your right , but I have always felt the difficulty levels either making them better as a whole or worst, so I can't really say I think they have tried in the past, but maybe your right. I just wish they has one level of play that is just about the players true attributes and ratings as a player.

Why should I have to move QB accuracy up or down, if your telling me this player is a 88 pass acc then at what level is he at 88?

Difficulty & realism are 2 different things, or at least they should be. IMO, realism is about how the game moves... players adhering to the laws of physics, running at relative speeds, reactions, tendencies, animations, ect. Difficulty should control how much timing of moves, play calling, ect effect the outcome of plays.

Example: 90 elusive RB versus 60 tackle DB. On whatever level is deemed realistic, jukes/spins should require good timing and work at a certain rate. On higher difficulties, jukes/spins should require better timing to work at that same rate. On lower levels, timing should be less strict. Either way, the game still plays realistic(according to my definition), but takes more skill/knowledge on higher difficulties and less on lower difficulties. Said another way, difficulty should only effect the user, not the CPU.

As for good teams always winning, the better team wins most of the time. A gamer choosing a lesser team should win for the same reasons they do IRL... better preparation, better play calling, better performance, better effort, ect. I'm not sure why anyone would want teams playing at the same level. What would be the sense of using one team over another other than the colors & names? When you pick a lesser team, you should embrace the challenge or pick a better team.

Your on to something . I can go for that where difficulty is more about better timing to execute a play. That is real nice, so a combo of what we both feel can really make the gameplay experience awesome.

Not true. Lesser teams beat upper echelon teams all the time in real life. If you scout your opponent and come up with the right gameplan and execute that gameplan, then on a given day, you can beat anyone. A videogame would be no different, especially if you are talking about human vs human.

Exactly. ANY GIVEN SUNDAY!!! A true fan of the sport understands that quote.

[Tyrant8RDFL]

Re: Are Levels of play ruining gameplay?

i wish difficulty was expressed by a teams play calling. rookie/pro should be hands offs mixed in with short throws. cpu not really aggressive to claw out every first down...

allpro - the cpu know how to set up big plays down the field, more aware of the down markers and the play to get them there, and more aware of the end of the first half momentum swings.

all madden - the cpu wants to win, they set up play action, they blitz, they fake blitzes, the cpu USES PUMP FAKES, more screens, 4th and 3 conversions attempts in opposition territory randomly, fake onside kicks ramdomly, the cpu risks penalties, gamble on picks

all ratings should be the same on every difficulty, but the mentality should change

there is no mental agression in madden, its all stat boost

I see what your saying. That is not bad at all, so pretty much the higher the level the better it duplicates the NFL.

I likes

[Matt23134]

Re: Are Levels of play ruining gameplay?

i wish difficulty was expressed by a teams play calling. rookie/pro should be hands offs mixed in with short throws. cpu not really aggressive to claw out every first down...

allpro - the cpu know how to set up big plays down the field, more aware of the down markers and the play to get them there, and more aware of the end of the first half momentum swings.

all madden - the cpu wants to win, they set up play action, they blitz, they fake blitzes, the cpu USES PUMP FAKES, more screens, 4th and 3 conversions attempts in opposition territory randomly, fake onside kicks ramdomly, the cpu risks penalties, gamble on picks

all ratings should be the same on every difficulty, but the mentality should change

there is no mental agression in madden, its all stat boost

Agreed. But, could the Madden developers ever get the AI at such an intelligent level without having to take easy street and make it cheap?

[BezO]

Re: Are Levels of play ruining gameplay?

i wish difficulty was expressed by a teams play calling. rookie/pro should be hands offs mixed in with short throws. cpu not really aggressive to claw out every first down...

allpro - the cpu know how to set up big plays down the field, more aware of the down markers and the play to get them there, and more aware of the end of the first half momentum swings.

all madden - the cpu wants to win, they set up play action, they blitz, they fake blitzes, the cpu USES PUMP FAKES, more screens, 4th and 3 conversions attempts in opposition territory randomly, fake onside kicks ramdomly, the cpu risks penalties, gamble on picks

What about coaching styles? How would a down field passing team play on Rookie. How would a conservative team play on All Madden?