Are Levels of play ruining gameplay?

[GamingJones]

Re: Are Levels of play ruining gameplay?

ratings means nothing on MADDEN.

Gameplay level on the other hand is what determinate the outcome of the play and game.

Player ratings are useless...

I insist, they should have 4 or 5 player ratings that means something than having the amount they have now without 1 single rating meaning something on the field.

You know, I cannot really disagree with this.

I cannot name how many times my 90+ rated CB drops passes right at him on All-Madden, while the CPU's 350 pound DT makes an acrobatic interception.

[Tyrant8RDFL]

Re: Are Levels of play ruining gameplay?

Individual bump was great. Playing against Stallworth or Moss I would play off them and shade the safties to their side and play tight on everyone else. Most gamers always sent them on fly routes so it worked like a charm.

I'll have to give Madden 08 on pc a try. I'm not much of a pc gamer usually. I prefer the consoles and my HDtv.

I use my HDTV as my monitor since its 1080p. Also note the 360 controller is fully supported on the p.c. and works perfectly.

Yes I also loved the way of disguising your defense in last gen madden it was awesome.

[Tyrant8RDFL]

Re: Are Levels of play ruining gameplay?

Good post. I agree with a lot of what you mentioned. But that doesn't coincide with my point. People still complained about those games in the past. Mario running, too easy a passing game, money plays, OLine blocking, etc. The list could probably go on and on.

And I'm talking about Madden 10. Why anyone would mentioned '09 when '10 is the most recent release doesn't make sense to me. I can work with '10. '09 was a piece of trash to me.

Your right they did complain, and I knew they were going to pay for it. The pressure from 2k5 and the Madden gamers forced EA into taking madden with a whole new engine and the franchise has never been the same.

MLB the show stood with what worked and just made it better on the next gen console.

Madden should have done the same, but your right they do complain, but for us that want to advise in making certain aspects better. Should be persistent in being heard, so the franchise can be what it once was.

What frustrates me the most is, the higher level I plan on the more stupid my players get.

That's a horrible way to make a game competitive.

Brother I know the feeling, and to me this says that the developers took a lazy approach in making the game competitive.

[Phixius]

Re: Are Levels of play ruining gameplay?

Every mode should be realism. The difficulty should be based on the cpu's playcalling and the team you're up against. The A.I. of the players on the field should be based on their attributes.

[Tyrant8RDFL]

Re: Are Levels of play ruining gameplay?

Every mode should be realism. The difficulty should be based on the cpu's playcalling and the team you're up against. The A.I. of the players on the field should be based on their attributes.

This is true and to add the higher the level the quicker you must be in timing to execute your play or move.

[oneamongthefence]

Re: Are Levels of play ruining gameplay?

Maybe they should make a madden all play for the ps3. Like the wii version and make a madden hardcore version for us grownups and sim people. Wow that sounded childish. Lol

[Bellsprout]

Re: Are Levels of play ruining gameplay?

So bad teams should play better than they are? Or good teams should play worse than they are?

I'd rather go 2-14 as the Browns if that's how bad they play than go 8-8 because the game made the Browns be average instead horrible like they are in real life.

It's a video game. At the end of the day it's supposed to be fun. If you're good at the game, you should have a chance to beat anybody with anybody else.

If I'm going to lose no matter what I do, how is that fun?

[Meast21Forever]

Re: Are Levels of play ruining gameplay?

What if 12 year olds want to play with the Raiders? What if my girlfriend jumps on and decides to play with the Bucs? What if I want to start a chise with my poor, poor 4-12 Skins? If there aren't levels of play, crappy teams don't stand a chance. The ratings are there and they're not going anywhere. Debating whether they should be there is like debating whether or not to have a kicking game in the NFL. Regardless of how logical the argument, it's never going to change. That said, if I want to use my poorly rated Skins team against the Saints, if there aren't levels of play in the game, I don't stand a chance.

You have to think of mass appeal. Madden cares about the hardcore gameplay guys and the sim guys, but there are more players that simply play the game for fun. If someone gets the game just so they can beat the cpu on rookie 100-0, let em. If that's fun for them, grand. Different gamers expect different things from the game. That's why there are different levels.

[Tyrant8RDFL]

Re: Are Levels of play ruining gameplay?

What if 12 year olds want to play with the Raiders? What if my girlfriend jumps on and decides to play with the Bucs? What if I want to start a chise with my poor, poor 4-12 Skins? If there aren't levels of play, crappy teams don't stand a chance. The ratings are there and they're not going anywhere. Debating whether they should be there is like debating whether or not to have a kicking game in the NFL. Regardless of how logical the argument, it's never going to change. That said, if I want to use my poorly rated Skins team against the Saints, if there aren't levels of play in the game, I don't stand a chance.

You have to think of mass appeal. Madden cares about the hardcore gameplay guys and the sim guys, but there are more players that simply play the game for fun. If someone gets the game just so they can beat the cpu on rookie 100-0, let em. If that's fun for them, grand. Different gamers expect different things from the game. That's why there are different levels.

Keeping the levels is fine, is how they are executed is the question. All we ask is for a level where the players play to their true abilities. This way we can get games in where they feel realsitic , natural, and most imporantly unpredicatble.

Your Skins are 4-12 but why should you ahve to dummy the game down to be competitive?

Wouldnt you like a level where if you call a great game on both sides of the ball, and execute your plays that you win. Regardless of who you play?

What we have now is pretty phony.

[splff3000]

Re: Are Levels of play ruining gameplay?

Keeping the levels is fine, is how they are executed is the question. All we ask is for a level where the players play to their true abilities. This way we can get games in where they feel realsitic , natural, and most imporantly unpredicatble.

I don't think there needs to be a realism setting. I'm pretty sure the devs have said many times that playing all pro you get a true representation of the ratings. So there's your realism setting right there. The problem is that increasing/decreasing the difficulty should not alter these ratings. They should be constant on all difficulty settings.

Like many others have said, I feel that increasing the difficulty level should mean increasing the cpu's AWARENESS of what you're doing, not increasing the players abilities. For example: On rookie, the cpu notices that you like to run on first down. On pro, the cpu notices that you like to run to the strong side on first down. On all pro, the cpu notices that you like to run off tackle to the strong side on first down. On All Madden, the cpu notices that you like to run off tackle to the strong side on first down, but you have a tendency to bounce it outside. That's what I think the higher difficulty should entail. I hate to say it, but I believe 2k5 did something like this. It wasn't perfect, but it was a start.

One other thing, like someone else said, I think once you get to All Pro and All Madden, the timing of button presses should become more important. You should be required to be more precise with your timing to perform moves and what not, more so on All madden than All Pro, but both should require some form of precision with button presses.

Through out all of this, the ratings would remain the same. If your DE is better than your opponents LT on rookie, then he's better than him on All Madden as well. No more ratings boosts!!!

[PGaither84]

Re: Are Levels of play ruining gameplay?

What if 12 year olds want to play with the Raiders? What if my girlfriend jumps on and decides to play with the Bucs? What if I want to start a chise with my poor, poor 4-12 Skins? If there aren't levels of play, crappy teams don't stand a chance. The ratings are there and they're not going anywhere. Debating whether they should be there is like debating whether or not to have a kicking game in the NFL. Regardless of how logical the argument, it's never going to change. That said, if I want to use my poorly rated Skins team against the Saints, if there aren't levels of play in the game, I don't stand a chance.

You have to think of mass appeal. Madden cares about the hardcore gameplay guys and the sim guys, but there are more players that simply play the game for fun. If someone gets the game just so they can beat the cpu on rookie 100-0, let em. If that's fun for them, grand. Different gamers expect different things from the game. That's why there are different levels.

2k5 had a feature called "performance equalizer." Madden should adapt that for casuals.

Also, I don't have a problem with having "Rookie/Pro/All-Pro/All-Madden" difficulty settings. I have a problem with how they are implemented just like a lot of other people here do. It has been said many times, the game doesn't get more or less difficult, it just makes the user and computer players better or worse than each other on a sliding scale. According to Ian, the goal of All-Pro is supposed to be that both the computer and user players are on the same level. If that is true, and I have no reason to belive it isn't, then we start to see other problems creep up. We see poor coaching and playcalling by the computer that has been talked about a lot. We see differences in execution between user and computer contolled teams that have been doccumented and talked about. We see a lot of flaws and how Madden doesn't properly express football on any level of difficulty.

Once Tiburon is able to create a game that properly expresses football along with a rating system that shows us the difference between highly rated and low rated players and proper play calling logic, only then can we really talk about changes in difficulty. I work with someone who likes to play on his PS2 [and played Madden 09 for it.] He is married and doesn't play a lot, but there are several times where he will tell me durring a break about some game he played and what happened and what went well and what went wrong and ask questions on how ot play etter. He loves to play on Pro mode because Rookie is too easy for him but All-Pro and harder are way too much for him when he tries. He just flat out enjoies the game and that is cool. I try to give him advise on having a balance between runs and passes and mixing in the play action, or not trying to go for the bomb on 3rd and 7, but try and call a screen every once in a while. I could go on, but you get my point. Part of it is how last gen did a better job of this than current Madden does. Last gen wasn't perfect, but it did a better job.

What I want is to play the best football game ever made... but to get there it takes time. What we need right now if for Madden to get back to where it was before. Once we are there, then we should look to move forward.

[KBLover]

Re: Are Levels of play ruining gameplay?

I don't think there needs to be a realism setting. I'm pretty sure the devs have said many times that playing all pro you get a true representation of the ratings. So there's your realism setting right there. The problem is that increasing/decreasing the difficulty should not alter these ratings. They should be constant on all difficulty settings.

Except the game isn't realistic at that level. Which is why people can take bad teams and smoke good ones or they see AI problems in online play where you're forced to all-50's sliders (supposedly the realism setting, right?).

It's why people like Valdarez deviate from all-50's because the realism ISN'T there and part of that is that you're fighting the engine more so than the ratings, imo.

[splff3000]

Re: Are Levels of play ruining gameplay?

Except the game isn't realistic at that level. Which is why people can take bad teams and smoke good ones or they see AI problems in online play where you're forced to all-50's sliders (supposedly the realism setting, right?).

It's why people like Valdarez deviate from all-50's because the realism ISN'T there and part of that is that you're fighting the engine more so than the ratings, imo.

Oh I wasn't saying it was like a real game on All Pro. I was just saying that the devs say that All Pro is where the ratings are actually depicted like they should be. I believe that's what the OP wanted in his realism setting. This game needs waaaaaay more than just a realism setting to fix its problems.

[KBLover]

Re: Are Levels of play ruining gameplay?

Oh I wasn't saying it was like a real game on All Pro. I was just saying that the devs say that All Pro is where the ratings are actually depicted like they should be. I believe that's what the OP wanted in his realism setting. This game needs waaaaaay more than just a realism setting to fix its problems.

Yeah, in fact - if 50's are how the ratings are 100% expressed (not higher or lower) then it really says a lot about the engine and player AI in the game that there's debate/feeling that ratings don't matter. Might also explain why there's like 1,000 ways to set sliders to get 'realistic' output (stats, gameplay, etc).

That's why I really really wonder about that statement. Was he [Ian] referring to the ratings themselves or the engine's use of the ratings? If it's the ratings themselves, there shouldn't be so many ways to get realistic stats? If it's the engine's use - then it seems more plausible, but also explains why it's hard to get exact pinpointing of what slider does what and to what degree.

[Tyrant8RDFL]

Re: Are Levels of play ruining gameplay?

This game needs waaaaaay more than just a realism setting to fix its problems.

Better gameplay, last gen control button layout, and animations to name a few, but for sure we need players to really duplicate what their true abilities are on the football field.

That is where the chess game begins. Right now its the 3-5 plays that work.