Player Attribute Inflation...AGAIN!

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  • DCEBB2001
    MVP
    • Nov 2008
    • 2569

    #121
    Re: Player Attribute Inflation...AGAIN!

    Originally posted by tlc12576
    DCEBB, I respect the way you explain your thought process and calculations when creating ratings. Even if I dont agree with every number you come up with, it's cool that you interact. IMO, this alone should be enough for EA to at least add you to the ratings process.

    One of my biggest gripes with EA concerning Madden is what seems like a "because I said so" response to so many questions. Almost like who are we to question them and they know what's best for a NFL football game. People can disagree but still respect each other in most situations if things are explained and discussed openly.

    However, so often people seem unwilling to explain themselves for fear of one thing or another. I really enjoy the way you discuss your ratings calculations and are so willing to entertain or even incorporate ideas from others.

    That said, has anyone been able to calculate how NCAA Football player ratings translate to Madden when importing draft classes? If someone could figure that out, maybe that can be used as a work around to the only potential problem I see with ratings adjustments. I think these ratings will be more to my liking than EA's but I just dont want the draft classes tainting it. If this equation can be solved and the NCAA Football ratings adjusted accordingly, then I would only use imported draft classes every year.

    Hopefully, we all succeed in showing EA a better way foward so we can "Quantum Leap" Madden back into the present. Maybe, in the year 2011 when we get flying cars and robot butlers, they can even add editable ratings along with imported draft classes to online franchise.
    This is VERY VERY possible. It is feasible to edit the rosters once you find out how the ratings are affected. For example, if a player has 99 SPD in NCAA, he will suffer a 3pt ratings drop when the players are transferred to Madden. Now, what needs to be calculated is how many points does each attribute drop when the transfer occurs. The problem, however, is that once 4 years pass in NCAA 11, the players that you recruited are once again rated according to EAs system. The only way to change it is to edit the draft classes, which I am unsure if THAT is even possible.
    Dan B.
    Player Ratings Administrator
    www.fbgratings.com/members
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    Petition to EA for FBG Ratings:
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    • tlc12576
      Banned
      • Jun 2009
      • 666

      #122
      Re: Player Attribute Inflation...AGAIN!

      Originally posted by DCEBB2001
      This is VERY VERY possible. It is feasible to edit the rosters once you find out how the ratings are affected. For example, if a player has 99 SPD in NCAA, he will suffer a 3pt ratings drop when the players are transferred to Madden. Now, what needs to be calculated is how many points does each attribute drop when the transfer occurs. The problem, however, is that once 4 years pass in NCAA 11, the players that you recruited are once again rated according to EAs system. The only way to change it is to edit the draft classes, which I am unsure if THAT is even possible.
      I was just thinking the same thing but 4 years of untainted franchise ratings is better than none.

      You are right though, they need to make draft classes editable. Lord forbid they actually give gamers more custom control. What would we want next, key cards to EA Tiburon? It's a slippery slope and Im sure EA just doenst want us hurting ourselves. LOL

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      • King Gro23
        MVP
        • Jan 2008
        • 2548

        #123
        Re: Player Attribute Inflation...AGAIN!

        Isn't the ratings in madden more of a success than skill. The skill comes from the USER & AI the success is solely what the ratings depend on. IMO
        Like Kushmir said what about the workout warriors.
        & OMG at Vernon Davis's combine numbers
        Both you guys have great points and what not, In my opinion there needs to be the perfect median between both.
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        • DCEBB2001
          MVP
          • Nov 2008
          • 2569

          #124
          Re: Player Attribute Inflation...AGAIN!

          Originally posted by King Gro23
          Isn't the ratings in madden more of a success than skill. The skill comes from the USER & AI the success is solely what the ratings depend on. IMO
          Like Kushmir said what about the workout warriors.
          & OMG at Vernon Davis's combine numbers
          Both you guys have great points and what not, In my opinion there needs to be the perfect median between both.
          First of all, I would argue that it is more about skill than success. Having great skill does not equate to success. Does it help? Sure...but is it correlated perfectly? NO. Think about it...it is probably a bit more difficult to get those 20 sacks in a season with K. Balmer than it is with D. Freeney because of the great difference in SPD, AGI, and ACC. This doesn't mean that Balmer can't get them, it just means he has to utilize different skills (STR, PMV, BSH) to get those 20 sacks.

          Workout warriors will have high RAW attributes, but will be low in other aspects.

          Case in point: Justin Ernest

          Now you are probably wondering who the heck is he!? He is the all time record holder for bench reps at either the NFL combine or an NFL pro day with 51 reps. He did it back in 1999 and was the 16th rated DT coming out that year from Eastern Kentucky.

          He was 6-3, 281, ran a 4.79, a 1.69, did 51 reps, 31 inches, 113 inches, a 4.24 shuttle, and a 7.37 3 cone. AMAZING numbers for a DT.

          So how is the guy rated? Well here is how his raw atts would breakdown:

          STR: 98
          AGI: 72
          SPD: 75
          ACC: 85
          JMP: 62

          Now remember kiddies...this is a DT! Those are amazing numbers for a DT...especially the AGI, SPD, and ACC.

          So why on earth do you not know who he is? Because he wasn't that great of a football player. So the argument is that he should NOT be docked from his RAW attributes, because clearly, he deserves those ratings for putting up those numbers...which are on even keel with anyone of any other position (remember, they are UNIVERSAL regardless of position).

          His low rating in the 50s is then the result of having a low AWR, TAK, and specialties (PMV, FMV, BSH, etc). This results in a balance that will mimic the desired OVR in combination with those great RAW attributes.

          Now if you are a player who has great RAW attributes AND great DYNAMIC attributes, you will most certainly have a much higher rating than a guy who is only good in one area. Guys like Jerry Rice and Emmett Smith would have average RAW attributes, but would be soooo great in the other areas that they would have great OVR ratings. This eliminates the "just because a guy is good, he deserves a 99 speed) ratings that EA has been doing forever and remains true to both qualitative and quantitative data.
          Dan B.
          Player Ratings Administrator
          www.fbgratings.com/members
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          Petition to EA for FBG Ratings:
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          • King Gro23
            MVP
            • Jan 2008
            • 2548

            #125
            Re: Player Attribute Inflation...AGAIN!

            I think were coming off at different points. I think your pertaining to IRL. I was talking about it within the video game of madden. Thanks for the explanation though, those are crazy numbers for a DT (combine numbers) I'm too tired to fully post what I mean so I will have to get at this thread in the morning. I guess the thing is where will the disparity be between players on Raw attributes with such a little range of numbers in a sense?
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            • DCEBB2001
              MVP
              • Nov 2008
              • 2569

              #126
              Re: Player Attribute Inflation...AGAIN!

              Originally posted by King Gro23
              I think were coming off at different points. I think your pertaining to IRL. I was talking about it within the video game of madden. Thanks for the explanation though, those are crazy numbers for a DT (combine numbers) I'm too tired to fully post what I mean so I will have to get at this thread in the morning. I guess the thing is where will the disparity be between players on Raw attributes with such a little range of numbers in a sense?
              OK first of all, those numbers are crazy for a DT, but they are legit. It's not my fault the guy is a beast. Should he be docked because of his position? I don't think so. That's how we have gotten into the ratings mess we are in today. Within the video game they will use their different skill sets to get sacks or do whatever you want your player to do. If your WR has an 80 SPD, then don't be going deep with him very often...instead use his great route running to create separation on short routes. The bottom line is that EA presently has all the WRs rated from 99-70 in speed, when it should be stretched out limitless. The range is 99 to 12 (the max to min) for every attribute. They include the best marks achieved since 1998 and the worst marks achieved by players from combines and pro days...if they ran it, we have the results. This of course does not include outliers that lie more than 3 STDEV from the population mean. So we have stretched them out, universally, as far as the game will allow...from 99 to 12. You will certainly notice a disparity between Calvin Johnson and Larry Fitzgerald on the RAW side of things...but you will also notice how Larry is a better receiver with more points accumulated via CTH, RTE, CIT, SPC, etc...
              Dan B.
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              Petition to EA for FBG Ratings:
              https://www.change.org/p/ea-sports-t...bers-index-php

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              • King Gro23
                MVP
                • Jan 2008
                • 2548

                #127
                Re: Player Attribute Inflation...AGAIN!

                I mean his combine numbers where "crazy" as in those are some superb numbers. Thats just beasting the combine. I wasn't commenting on his RAW attributes and I see now. Too much calculating for a young buck like me. I like the idea of utilizing each value in the range. Sounds good brother this whole thread just makes you scratch your head about EA like as to reasoning.
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                • DCEBB2001
                  MVP
                  • Nov 2008
                  • 2569

                  #128
                  Re: Player Attribute Inflation...AGAIN!

                  Originally posted by King Gro23
                  I mean his combine numbers where "crazy" as in those are some superb numbers. Thats just beasting the combine. I wasn't commenting on his RAW attributes and I see now. Too much calculating for a young buck like me. I like the idea of utilizing each value in the range. Sounds good brother this whole thread just makes you scratch your head about EA like as to reasoning.
                  Yeah...EA has some things quite jacked up. What is the point of having ratings range from 12-99 if you don't ever go below 50 for some of these ratings?
                  Dan B.
                  Player Ratings Administrator
                  www.fbgratings.com/members
                  NFL Scout
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                  • tlc12576
                    Banned
                    • Jun 2009
                    • 666

                    #129
                    Re: Player Attribute Inflation...AGAIN!

                    Originally posted by DCEBB2001
                    Yeah...EA has some things quite jacked up. What is the point of having ratings range from 12-99 if you don't ever go below 50 for some of these ratings?

                    On this me and you agree whole heartedly!

                    Donny Moore, if you happen to peek at this thread again, please at least explain your logic for players SPD(speed) rating. I have NEVER understood why that rating would vary from one position to another. 40 times are universal, there is no such thing as position specific 40 clocking. I really want to understand how Maden can continue to have faster players with speed ratings lower than slower players.

                    Sometimes I feel like Im in the Twilight Zone concerining next-gen Madden. I cant understand how so many people can honestly believe it when they say this is a NFL sim game. I honestly believe the only thing EA wants from the NFL for Madden is it's player names and team trademarks. Everything else for Madden, they just want to invent themselves, IMO. Doesnt seem that they intend for next-gen Madden and beyond to be NFL sim besides the NFL branding. I think the intention is to create some kind of Madden sim brand of video game football that EA can innovate. I guess this is their startegy to combat the competition when and if the exclusive NFL license is over.

                    I dont enjoy the NFL because it resembles Madden, I try to enjoy Madden because it is supposed to be a simulation of the NFL.

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                    • DCEBB2001
                      MVP
                      • Nov 2008
                      • 2569

                      #130
                      Re: Player Attribute Inflation...AGAIN!

                      Originally posted by tlc12576
                      On this me and you agree whole heartedly!

                      Donny Moore, if you happen to peek at this thread again, please at least explain your logic for players SPD(speed) rating. I have NEVER understood why that rating would vary from one position to another. 40 times are universal, there is no such thing as position specific 40 clocking. I really want to understand how Maden can continue to have faster players with speed ratings lower than slower players.

                      Sometimes I feel like Im in the Twilight Zone concerining next-gen Madden. I cant understand how so many people can honestly believe it when they say this is a NFL sim game. I honestly believe the only thing EA wants from the NFL for Madden is it's player names and team trademarks. Everything else for Madden, they just want to invent themselves, IMO. Doesnt seem that they intend for next-gen Madden and beyond to be NFL sim besides the NFL branding. I think the intention is to create some kind of Madden sim brand of video game football that EA can innovate. I guess this is their startegy to combat the competition when and if the exclusive NFL license is over.

                      I dont enjoy the NFL because it resembles Madden, I try to enjoy Madden because it is supposed to be a simulation of the NFL.
                      So according to EA...

                      If a DT runs a 5.00 and a QB runs a 5.00, then the QB would have a speed of 70 and the DT a speed of 40...

                      wonderful...
                      Dan B.
                      Player Ratings Administrator
                      www.fbgratings.com/members
                      NFL Scout
                      www.nfldraftscout.com/members

                      Petition to EA for FBG Ratings:
                      https://www.change.org/p/ea-sports-t...bers-index-php

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