How Close are we to a COMPLETELY NEW Madden ENGINE?

[Only1LT]

Re: How Close are we to a COMPLETELY NEW Madden ENGINE?

Because then you'd be stuck with every single football game you hate and have it released on an annual basis.

Also, these companies are NOT going to just avoid taking your millions of dollars each year. It's lunacy to even think that.

I never said it was likely that they would change anything. On the contrary, I am of the opinion that what is most likely form Tiburon is that they will do little.

All I'm saying is that scrapping everything doesn't necessarily have to be a terrible idea, and there are scenarios where it is actually the only idea. I don't know what the situation is over at Tiburon, so I can't say whether they do or don't need to scrap everything. I'm just saying that, hypothetically speaking, scrapping everything might not be a terrible idea at all, and I gave a few examples why.

[Only1LT]

Re: How Close are we to a COMPLETELY NEW Madden ENGINE?

That may not be possible without a new engine; otherwise, if the rumors are true, why would Ian ask for a new engine ? Ian and company have made improvements to the game; however, the core issues(flaws) still remain. It could be due to a lack of talent, or a need for a new engine. I really can't say which because, I don't know how game development works; i thought that if Ian and company thought they needed a new engine,since they are the developers, they would build it themselves rather than requesting one. We also don't know if Ian actually asked for a new engine; that's simply a rumor as you've stated.

If building a new engine takes away time from other projects that the higher ups deem as more important, or if said new engine requires financing for R&D, then yes, those are two scenarios (though there are several others) that would precipitate the dev team having to make a formal request before beginning such an undertaking.

[LiquorLogic]

Re: How Close are we to a COMPLETELY NEW Madden ENGINE?

In other words my fellow sim brothers, we are dinosaurs.

Not true at all. The reason why franchise has been untouched is because EA has no competitors. All the other sports genres, where there's competition, aren't ignoring their franchise modes. If us "sim brothers" were dinosaurs that would be reflected across all sports genres. The only thing that EA's data reflects is that on and offline franchise modes suck ! That's why they're not being used. I love franchise, but I haven't so much as touched it this year.

It's true that online play is the most popular by a long shot, but there are a lot of sales that would be lost if EA had a viable competitor who had a robust franchise mode.

[kennyacid]

Re: How Close are we to a COMPLETELY NEW Madden ENGINE?

you wont see a big change as long as people are buying it as is. They know their game will be bought because its the only show in town. If enough people were not to buy the game for a year, then EA would get the message and see people are serious about being tired of the same game being released. BUT we all know that will never happen as long as there isn't another NFL game to go to so they pretty much can do what. Is it right? No but its reality

[Pared]

Re: How Close are we to a COMPLETELY NEW Madden ENGINE?

I never said it was likely that they would change anything. On the contrary, I am of the opinion that what is most likely form Tiburon is that they will do little.

All I'm saying is that scrapping everything doesn't necessarily have to be a terrible idea, and there are scenarios where it is actually the only idea. I don't know what the situation is over at Tiburon, so I can't say whether they do or don't need to scrap everything. I'm just saying that, hypothetically speaking, scrapping everything might not be a terrible idea at all, and I gave a few examples why.

So you want to have a discussion that is completely hypothetical?

I'm sorry, if it's not realistic or doable... what is the point of discussing this then? To dream?

I'm not trying to come off as rude; Explain to me how this even benefits anyone interested in making Madden better when we all know they won't scrap the game completely.

[tlc12576]

Re: How Close are we to a COMPLETELY NEW Madden ENGINE?

Not sure what problems you have, but the problems I have require some major work. Tiering the play calling system and gap/contain assignments for example. Not sure it would mean a "rebuild" though.

That was my point. LOL! I didnt bother to list all my issues with Madden, just stated that they could be resolved without a new engine, IMO.

I think anyone saying they'd be happy with Madden 2005 is not thinking about 2010 expectations, especially comparing Madden to other sports titles. Much of what we complain about now existed back then too. We just had more side features.

That;s not what I said. Here is what I said.

Like a few people have already said, if Madden 11 graphically was the same but had all the features of Madden 2005, alot of gamers would be happy. Even more so, if it had a 2k5 style presentation, maybe using the NFL network instead of ESPN, a full featured complete online franchise and some kind of moderated online ranked games system. These tweaks shouldnt require a "new" engine, just a little effort from EA, IMO.

I will not bother listing all the features from Madden 2005 but I think we all can agree that Madden 11 doesnt have most of them. Even the features it might have from 2005 are not implemented correctly. Im no fan of Madden 2005 because I was playing NFL 2k5 but adding all of Madden 2005's features to Madden 11 would defintely be an joyful improvement, IMO.

[jeremym480]

Re: How Close are we to a COMPLETELY NEW Madden ENGINE?

No way would I trust EA with building a new engine at this point. We might get stuck with unplayable games like Madden 06-09 all over again.

I'm not hardcore about football like many of you, so I understand and totally respect how you feel and what you are saying in terms of wanting something that resembles the NFL both strategy wise and gameplay wise. I think that the franchise is finally in the right direction once again and if they keep building on it every year by the end of the xbox 360 era we will have a complete game like how Madden 05 was at the end of the PS2 era. Re-build the engine when a new line of next gen systems come out. That's my opinion.

This is basically how I feel, as well. When they scrap this engine then I pretty much guarantee 2 or 3 bad, bare bones year's like 06 & 07. I'm actually dreading the change more than I'm looking forward to it. Plus, why scrap something when there's still some room for improvement?
IMO, Madden has made significant improvements from 09 to 10 and again from 10 to 11. If they keep cleaning up game-play and go "all in" with franchise mode (I'm talking about everything from last gen position battles, morale, etc. and working IR) then I'll be happier than a pig in mud.

[guaps]

Re: How Close are we to a COMPLETELY NEW Madden ENGINE?

you wont see a big change as long as people are buying it as is. They know their game will be bought because its the only show in town. If enough people were not to buy the game for a year, then EA would get the message and see people are serious about being tired of the same game being released. BUT we all know that will never happen as long as there isn't another NFL game to go to so they pretty much can do what. Is it right? No but its reality

That's not true. Madden might be top of the pop in America, but the FIFA series is the most profitable EA Sports' title world-wide (FIFA 10 sold 9.7 million games in the first four months alone) and they are continuously making huge strides each year and have since 2007 with FIFA 08.

• FIFA 08 was the first next-gen game with the brand new engine.

• FIFA 09 had more than 250 improvements, including a "collision system, which calculates speed, weight, and power when the players collide, as each player will have their own individual strength and power statistics depending on their body characteristics" <-- please, bring that to Madden!

• FIFA 10 brought fewer changes to gameplay, but introduced a new Manager Mode (FIFA's answer to Franchise Mode).

• FIFA 11 will introduce a new passing system, player personalities to allow the AI to emulate the real players traits, a new mode that improves and merges Be A Pro and Franchise Mode and many more features.

All of FIFA's innovation are coming despite FIFA taking off as the best selling sports game in history. EA Canada is definitely not resting on its laurels, just look at the improvements to NHL 11. Madden's problems are not based on sales, but on a lack of ability to take the game to the next level. Personally, I would prefer if all EA Sports' games were made by EA Canada.

[Only1LT]

Re: How Close are we to a COMPLETELY NEW Madden ENGINE?

So you want to have a discussion that is completely hypothetical?

I'm sorry, if it's not realistic or doable... what is the point of discussing this then? To dream?

I'm not trying to come off as rude; Explain to me how this even benefits anyone interested in making Madden better when we all know they won't scrap the game completely.

I'm not sure that we are understanding each other. You said that scrapping everything is a terrible idea. I said that it isn't necessarily a terrible idea, and gave examples of situations when it might actually be a good idea. That's all.

Stop me when we get to the point where I am out of line.

[rooney8]

Re: How Close are we to a COMPLETELY NEW Madden ENGINE?

I don't think we will see a new engine until next gen which could be 4-5 years from now which means we will continue to see alot of the same problems. I think the current dev team has done well but the game just feels stale and boring to me at this stage so I would love to be surprised with a new game engine for M12.

[Pared]

Re: How Close are we to a COMPLETELY NEW Madden ENGINE?

I'm not sure that we are understanding each other. You said that scrapping everything is a terrible idea. I said that it isn't necessarily a terrible idea, and gave examples of situations when it might actually be a good idea. That's all.

Stop me when we get to the point where I am out of line.

Again, if it is not realistic for Madden, what is it exactly we are discussing as being a possibility?

We are discussing Madden, in the Madden forum right?

If not then you would have a point. If you ignore sales, financials, budgets, reasonable solutions then I'm not sure what is your point. We could discuss the topic in a vacuum but that doesn't pertain to what I posted in response to the thread.

[sparky the sun devil]

Re: How Close are we to a COMPLETELY NEW Madden ENGINE?

Ian Cummings said when he first got the job; he asked to be able to develop a whole new game engine with physics, but EA didnt want to spend the extra money. With sales continuing to drop maybe we are getting closer than people realize

[REDRZA]

Re: How Close are we to a COMPLETELY NEW Madden ENGINE?

That was my point. LOL! I didnt bother to list all my issues with Madden, just stated that they could be resolved without a new engine, IMO.



That;s not what I said. Here is what I said.


I will not bother listing all the features from Madden 2005 but I think we all can agree that Madden 11 doesnt have most of them. Even the features it might have from 2005 are not implemented correctly. Im no fan of Madden 2005 because I was playing NFL 2k5 but adding all of Madden 2005's features to Madden 11 would defintely be an joyful improvement, IMO.

Hoping for features from a game that is 6 years old, built on lesser hardwarem is NOT what gamers want. Quite the contrary, by the year 2010, we should be blown away by this game now. Instead, we are playing PS2 legacy code that has far outlasted its life span. They should be doing things with this game we havent even thought of. Just hasn't happened because its obvious most Madden fans glorify old, past games while being blind to what the games SHOULD be by now. You see quality, and overall polish in games like halo, COD, and even other sports titles like NHL, FIFA, NBA 2K, and the beautiful MLB the Show!

Stop dwelling and "settling" on versions of Madden's from 5 years ago, on much lesser hardware, and start to think where Madden SHOULD be by now.

[REDRZA]

Re: How Close are we to a COMPLETELY NEW Madden ENGINE?

This is basically how I feel, as well. When they scrap this engine then I pretty much guarantee 2 or 3 bad, bare bones year's like 06 & 07. I'm actually dreading the change more than I'm looking forward to it. Plus, why scrap something when there's still some room for improvement?
IMO, Madden has made significant improvements from 09 to 10 and again from 10 to 11. If they keep cleaning up game-play and go "all in" with franchise mode (I'm talking about everything from last gen position battles, morale, etc. and working IR) then I'll be happier than a pig in mud.

Thats straight fallacy and a built in cop out from EA. There is no reason in the world EA couldnt have been pumping out this same game engine for years, with tunes ans tweaks like they have been doing for many, many years, while behind the scenes have been working on a brand new game engine that is better in every way. Graphically, a new animation system that uses real time physics, smarter and adaptive AI, a much more robust online suite of options, and a much deeper franchise mode.

EA is the single largest 3rd party software publisher and Madden is their flagship title. We are being slapped in the face because we line up each and every year with the "hope" they finally get it. Well guess what, they don't. NHL 11, MLB The Show, Fight Night, and 2K NBA basketball are all far and away better sports games than EA's football showings. There is no need for them to blow us away with Madden because we suffer from the battered wife syndrome. "He didnt mean it", "he had a bad day", "He really loves me", ands the best one "I dont want to press charges" LMAO!. It's our own fault we are stuck with 10 year ols code and legacy issues..... we keep buying the game to record sales figures every year.

They wont get it until we suck it up for a year and give developers that really deserve our money their due. MLB The Show, NBA 2K11, Fight Night Champions, FIFA, not to mention all the great "AAA" titles like Halo Reach, GT5, God of War III, Killzone 3, COD series, ETC, ETC,.

[tlc12576]

Re: How Close are we to a COMPLETELY NEW Madden ENGINE?

Hoping for features from a game that is 6 years old, built on lesser hardwarem is NOT what gamers want. Quite the contrary, by the year 2010, we should be blown away by this game now. Instead, we are playing PS2 legacy code that has far outlasted its life span. They should be doing things with this game we havent even thought of. Just hasn't happened because its obvious most Madden fans glorify old, past games while being blind to what the games SHOULD be by now. You see quality, and overall polish in games like halo, COD, and even other sports titles like NHL, FIFA, NBA 2K, and the beautiful MLB the Show!

Stop dwelling and "settling" on versions of Madden's from 5 years ago, on much lesser hardware, and start to think where Madden SHOULD be by now.

Redrza, I think you are totally missing my point. I am by NO means a fan of next-gen Madden's progress. What I am saying is rather than adding a new engine, there is alot that can be done with the current engine. They could start with bringing Madden 11 up to par with the features of Madden 2005.

I would love to see EA create a NFL football game that meets 2010 football video game expectations. In the meantime, they should at least create one with features equal to the year 2006.

Maybe the term "features" is causing some confusion. I mean like if Madden 11 had for example, defensive playmaker, Tony Bruno Show, newspapers, player roles and more franchise control. Are you actually saying that these things wouldnt improve Madden 11 and make more people happier with the game? Why is adding things that where good ideas in Madden 2005 not a good idea? So you would rather leave Madden 11 exactly as it is rather than add features from Madden 2005, if you can't get new features that "blow you away"?

You are entitled to your opinion, I guess we just disagree and that's cool.