Why Line Play Will Never Be Realistic in Football Games

[Jarodd21]

Re: Why Line Play Will Never Be Realistic in Football Games

I get great all around stats on 15 minute quarters in Madden with a 25 sec runoff.

You do? I got too many plays and scored too many points when I tried it at that. Sometimes I get too many plays and score too many points with 14min quarters with 25 second runoff. They should add a 30 second runoff for us fast playcallers. That would be perfect for 15min minute quarters for me.

[RGiles36]

Re: Why Line Play Will Never Be Realistic in Football Games

You do? I got too many plays and scored too many points when I tried it at that. Sometimes I get too many plays and score too many points with 14min quarters with 25 second runoff. They should add a 30 second runoff for us fast playcallers. That would be perfect for 15min minute quarters for me.

The run-off doesn't even work this year, unless it was fixed in a patch. It only does 15 or 20 secs, regardless of setting. I play at 13 mins, which normally gives me an accurate amount of plays.

[Jarodd21]

Re: Why Line Play Will Never Be Realistic in Football Games

The run-off doesn't even work this year, unless it was fixed in a patch. It only does 15 or 20 secs, regardless of setting. I play at 13 mins, which normally gives me an accurate amount of plays.

I just checked it out right now as we speak and 25 seconds went right off the clock after I choose my play. Went from 7:41 to 7:16. So it is working.

[Hova57]

Re: Why Line Play Will Never Be Realistic in Football Games

For me as far as the article goes they have a point, but what I think would contribute to better line play would be the logic of the AI and ratings two things that most football games struggle with. The issues we all have madden and ncaa is technically Logic driven. No one argues the animations look wrong for the most part, but its the way the AI handles the interaction. oline should work inside out , dline should be in their gaps or techniques. this is where most of the problem comes if the logic was as this simple to put in I think we would have better line play. I believe this is what they are trying to do with the run game. telling the AI where they need to go instead of looking for a body. if they could handle that down to the individual positions I think we would have better line play.

though the article doesn't talk about it I believe its the same struggles with cb/wr interaction also.

[k0brakai]

Re: Why Line Play Will Never Be Realistic in Football Games

Madden is run on animations, not movement. There isnt a speed rush, there is engage the guy in front of you asap, do a move asap, and run towards qb. There isnt a bull rush, there is engage guy in front of you, do insta rip on him, get to qb. The movements of arms, hips, legs, helmets and technique do not matter, so it won't look anything like real life.

You put the game on all madden and watch the CPU pull crazy pressure on your butt. Replay it and it is one big jumble of insta rips/swims and super speed dlinemen.

Madden 13 should stress technique.

The thing with madden is, anytime you see anyone blocking, its a 2 person (although they do have 3 person double+chip anims) animation selected from a library of animations. Which animation you see is probably driven about 75% by the difficulty you're playing on, and 25% the battle of the two players blocking stats. So in the case of CPU Vs CPU blocking, its already made its mind up as to how much time you will have.

Dont think i've ever seen a 4-3 defensive end come out his stance and run(read: get motion shifted) directly at the tackle's center mass in a real NFL game, but i see that all the time in madden

Backbreaker on the other hand never locks two players in animation, it's always two seperate players interacting of their own accord, which is why it instantly feels more real.

[Senator Palmer]

Re: Why Line Play Will Never Be Realistic in Football Games

You do? I got too many plays and scored too many points when I tried it at that. Sometimes I get too many plays and score too many points with 14min quarters with 25 second runoff. They should add a 30 second runoff for us fast playcallers. That would be perfect for 15min minute quarters for me.

I do it on All-Madden, so I don't know how huge of a difference that makes. I don't get the 120+ plays with the 25 sec runoff; it's usually in that 110 range. And I focus on the ground game with long, long drives, tough defense to keep the clock moving and I usually take my time pre-snap and go deep into the playclock.

My last franchise season, I went in with a focus on improving my run game and wound up leading the league in rushing with two 1,000 plus yard backs and I finished under 4,000 yard passing for the first time I can remember. The scores themselves weren't any crazier than I'm used to in Madden. I did average over 30 a game, although the "killing blow" usually came late in games. I had some blowouts, some great defensive battles -- one game I only put up 16 points against the Panthers no less.

I get something around close to 240 passing a game and 156 + on the ground.

Now, to be fair, if I did have a wide open offense and focused in being up tempo then I'm sure I could post the most asinine stats, but I make it a focus to keep things as grounded as possible. I played around with the Saints a few times because I like Peyton's offense and I threw the ball like 50 times and put almost 500 yards in the air with something like 59 points.

[Jarodd21]

Re: Why Line Play Will Never Be Realistic in Football Games

I do it on All-Madden, so I don't know how huge of a difference that makes. I don't get the 120+ plays with the 25 sec runoff; it's usually in that 110 range. And I focus on the ground game with long, long drives, tough defense to keep the clock moving and I usually take my time pre-snap and go deep into the playclock.

My last franchise season, I went in with a focus on improving my run game and wound up leading the league in rushing with two 1,000 plus yard backs and I finished under 4,000 yard passing for the first time I can remember. The scores themselves weren't any crazier than I'm used to in Madden. I did average over 30 a game, although the "killing blow" usually came late in games. I had some blowouts, some great defensive battles -- one game I only put up 16 points against the Panthers no less.

I get something around close to 240 passing a game and 156 + on the ground.

Now, to be fair, if I did have a wide open offense and focused in being up tempo then I'm sure I could post the most asinine stats, but I make it a focus to keep things as grounded as possible. I played around with the Saints a few times because I like Peyton's offense and I threw the ball like 50 times and put almost 500 yards in the air with something like 59 points.

Yea I'm an all-madden guy myself(got some good all-madden custom sliders your might wanna try on my sig since your an all-madden player) I don't do all-pro at all. Haha!

But when I played a couple of games with it on 15min quarters with the 25 second runoff I was averaging about 80+(by myself) plays a game. I'm a run first guy. I was getting about 25+ passes with Eli and about 25+ carries each with both Jacobs and Bradshaw. Scores and stats was kind of up there. It might be because of how fast I call my plays I don't know but I only should be getting around 55-65 plays a game. I'm playing with 14min quarters now with a 25 second runoff clock and Its ok but sometimes with that I still get a high amount of plays. A 30 second clock would be perfect for me and I hope they can add this because I really wanna play 15 min quarter games..

[Mike-O]

Re: Why Line Play Will Never Be Realistic in Football Games

Great article! Put my gaming expectations in perspective.

[ForUntoOblivionSoar∞]

Re: Why Line Play Will Never Be Realistic in Football Games

This is one of the main reasons I hate casual football gamers. Their desire to play arcade football has been ruining football videos games for years. Don't like a fearsome pass rush? Learn to use hot routes and screen passes to slow it down.

I do wish that football game designers would at least give us the option of playing with realistic line play, through sliders. I don't see why that cannot be done.

[jfsolo]

Re: Why Line Play Will Never Be Realistic in Football Games

For me as far as the article goes they have a point, but what I think would contribute to better line play would be the logic of the AI and ratings two things that most football games struggle with. The issues we all have madden and ncaa is technically Logic driven. No one argues the animations look wrong for the most part, but its the way the AI handles the interaction. oline should work inside out , dline should be in their gaps or techniques. this is where most of the problem comes if the logic was as this simple to put in I think we would have better line play. I believe this is what they are trying to do with the run game. telling the AI where they need to go instead of looking for a body. if they could handle that down to the individual positions I think we would have better line play.

though the article doesn't talk about it I believe its the same struggles with cb/wr interaction also.

I agree 100%. I think most of us could live with some deficiencies in animation coverage if we got the sense that the AI was programmed better in terms of trying to play assignment football.

[dawarthog]

Operation Sports sound like a bunch of EA apologists. After that 9 rating for Madden 11 what more can I say. Madden can now be compared to Mario Games as far as realism (ok that's a stretch but if you don't believe Madden is terrible then you're not being truthful. EA even admitted they have problem with this generation of systems. We have to be realist and not stick our head in the sand like EA want us to. Because the next generation of game consoles is around the corner and THINGS ONLY GOING TO GET WORSE WITH EA.

[Hova57]

Re: Why Line Play Will Never Be Realistic in Football Games

Operation Sports sound like a bunch of EA apologists. After that 9 rating for Madden 11 what more can I say. Madden can now be compared to Mario Games as far as realism (ok that's a stretch but if you don't believe Madden is terrible then you're not being truthful. EA even admitted they have problem with this generation of systems. We have to be realist and not stick our head in the sand like EA want us to. Because the next generation of game consoles is around the corner and THINGS ONLY GOING TO GET WORSE WITH EA.

The only thing I have to dispute with this is that you think the next gen is around the corner. With the current economic state the thought of a new gaming system produced in the next 3 years would be bad business. maybe for xbox cause of some issues, but i think they cleared up alot with the slim and hd.

[RGiles36]

Re: Why Line Play Will Never Be Realistic in Football Games

I just checked it out right now as we speak and 25 seconds went right off the clock after I choose my play. Went from 7:41 to 7:16. So it is working.

What about the play clock?

[Jarodd21]

Re: Why Line Play Will Never Be Realistic in Football Games

What about the play clock?

I'll check that out the next time I play but the game clock is definitely working..

[mjhyankees]

Re: Why Line Play Will Never Be Realistic in Football Games

I just dont' see how hard it is to do good presentation. It's not a game engine, it's not anything that wasn't done on old gen. It's probably a cost-analysis thing. Maybe they don't feel the extra cost (staff, hardware, time etc.) is worth it because not enough people complain about it. I agree that the presentation could be WAY better and wouldn't be hard to do. I'd personally pay another $5 for a great pregame, halftime and post game show, more varied graphics pregame and postgame, special superbowl presentation etc.