Madden NFL 12 Ratings - Top 6 Wide Receivers

[TheAlter95]

I would rate Jennings and Calvin even at 91 each.

you obviously dont watch football, calvin is by far better than a 91 overall, mike and mike said hes number one in the lague and he is very good johnson and johnson are the best

[TheAlter95]

you obviously dont watch football, calvin is by far better than a 91 overall, mike and mike said hes number one in the lague and he is very good johnson and johnson are the best

league is what i meant

[Bellsprout]

Re: Madden NFL 12 Ratings - Top 6 Wide Receivers

you obviously dont watch football, calvin is by far better than a 91 overall, mike and mike said hes number one in the lague and he is very good johnson and johnson are the best

And clearly, Mike & Mike are the definitive source for football knowledge.

I'm not saying I disagree, I'm just saying that "because Mike & Mike said so" is a laughable reason.

league is what i meant

You can just click the Edit button on the post and fix it that way.

[Evan_OS]

Re: Madden NFL 12 Ratings - Top 6 Wide Receivers

Really, The man averages 1,000 yards in 50 or so catches? He had the highest per catch average last season. He has proven that he can go all the way on any play. If they were to pass to DeSean 100+ times a season he would be destroying records. I mean he came in 71st in catches last season but he was tied for 12 in total receiving yards. If that's not Top 10 talent, I don't know what is.


Not to mention he can outrun any corner in the league and has superb route running....

He only averages a ton of yards on so little catches because for the most part, he's only a deep threat. He's got speed, above average hands, and above average route running. I'm not saying he's a bad or average receiver, but there's at least 7 or 8 wideouts I'd take before him.

As far as the Eagles passing too him 100+ times and breaking records, not so sure about that. If they could throw to him 100+ times I think they would, it's not that they're not throwing to him that many times, but he's probably not open that many times.

[BlackJackRabbit]

Re: Madden NFL 12 Ratings - Top 6 Wide Receivers

How exactly does he have superb route running?

And what do you mean by "if they were to pass to DeSean 100+ times a season..."? They DO pass to him 100+ times per season. In 2009, he was #20 in the league in targets with 118 targets in 15 games. Last year he had 96 targets in 14 games (obviously would have been over 100 had he played all 16 games), so unless you want the Eagles to throw the ball to him like 80% of the time, he's getting the ball thrown to him about as much as possible. He just doesn't have good hands, which is obviously on him.

I thought I already addressed this. Desean wasn't among the leaders in drops in the league; however, Reggie Wayne (who is on the list) was among the league leaders in drops. Nobody is arguing that Wayne shouldn't be on the list.

[Yeah...THAT Guy]

Re: Madden NFL 12 Ratings - Top 6 Wide Receivers

I thought I already addressed this. Desean wasn't among the leaders in drops in the league; however, Reggie Wayne (who is on the list) was among the league leaders in drops. Nobody is arguing that Wayne shouldn't be on the list.

DeSean had BY FAR the highest drop percentage in the league. Reggie Wayne wasn't even in the bottom 15.

DeSean Jackson had the 7th worst catch percentage in the league. Reggie Wayne was 23rd best in the league.

[SuperNoVa27]

Re: Madden NFL 12 Ratings - Top 6 Wide Receivers

A lot of D.Jax's drops come from him either moving too fast to actually get a handle on the ball and bad throws from Vick.

If he isn't that great of a route runner, then how does he get wide open as often as he does?

Also, if he is only a big deep threat (if) then he would definitely be one of the best deep threats in the league/game.

I'd rather have the guy who would be wide open down the field 35% of the pass plays than the guy who would be open across the middle half the plays in Madden and that should be shown in the ratings.

[BlackJackRabbit]

Re: Madden NFL 12 Ratings - Top 6 Wide Receivers

DeSean had BY FAR the highest drop percentage in the league. Reggie Wayne wasn't even in the bottom 15.

DeSean Jackson had the 7th worst catch percentage in the league. Reggie Wayne was 23rd best in the league.

Stop trying to pick and choose numbers that only help your argument. If you're not going to question Wayne's hands when he was among the league leaders in drops, then you can't question Desean's hands for being among the league leaders in drop percentage.

Drops are a subjective stat anyway. What one person considers a drop, another person may consider a bad pass.

A lot of D.Jax's drops come from him either moving too fast to actually get a handle on the ball and bad throws from Vick.

If he isn't that great of a route runner, then how does he get wide open as often as he does?

Also, if he is only a big deep threat (if) then he would definitely be one of the best deep threats in the league/game.

I'd rather have the guy who would be wide open down the field 35% of the pass plays than the guy who would be open across the middle half the plays in Madden and that should be shown in the ratings.

I honestly think people merely underestimate Jackson's route running because of his speed,and the the fact that he is such a deep threat. Jackson's route running is fine, and I guess the people saying that Desean is only a deep threat never saw the Atlanta, Lions, or Cowboys game this season.

[Yeah...THAT Guy]

Re: Madden NFL 12 Ratings - Top 6 Wide Receivers

Stop trying to pick and choose numbers that only help your argument. If you're not going to question Wayne's hands when he was among the league leaders in drops, then you can't question Desean's hands for being among the league leaders in drop percentage.

Drops are a subjective stat anyway. What one person considers a drop, another person may consider a bad pass.

Drop percentage is drops/catchable balls (meaning it excludes the balls that are inaccurate), which is why Larry Fitzgerald's catch percentage is low but his drop percentage is good.

DeSean Jackson has both one of the worst catch percentages in the league and the worst drop percentage in the league (and the only player that drops over 20% of catchable passes last year).

Over the past 3 seasons, it was only slightly better, as he was still in the bottom 5 with the likes of Braylon Edwards, Randy Moss, and Terrell Owens.

Are they good WRs? Absolutely (and I think Moss and T.O. are HOF bound). But regardless, all four of those guys are known for not having the best hands (although when Moss actually tries, they're pretty good).

But if you think it was just because Vick is an inaccurate passer (which as I said, drop percentage is only drops/catchable passes), here's the other Philly receivers who should have pretty bad catch percentages as well if Vick was the problem.

Maclin: 61%
Avant: 68%
Cooper: 39% (but only 19 passes thrown to him)
Jackson: 49% (on nearly 100 passes)

According to DVAR (an advanced stat that figures out yards over replacement adjusted for the defense), Jackson is rated behind both Maclin and Avant, and finds himself ranked 45th in the league, just after Jabar Gaffney. According to DVOA (adjusted value over average), Jackson ranks 3rd on the team again, and finds himself ranked 44th in the league.

Last year, ranking the guys that went deep the highest percentage of their catches, Jackson ranks 9th. Of the 8 guys above him, he had a higher catch percentage than 2 (Lee Evans and Malcolm Floyd). Steve Breaston went deep .5% less, and had probably the most inaccurate QBs in the league last year (no way to really prove this, but come on, they were god awful), and even he had a 54% catch percentage.

So again, is DeSean a good WR? Absolutely. If you rank the WRs by win probablility added, Jackson ranks 5th. If you rank them by expected points added, Jackson ranks 10th. But is he a top 5 WR? There's no chance in hell, and I think it's debateable at best that he's a top 10 WR. He's already getting targeted over 100 times per season easily if he stays healthy, so there's really no reason to expect him to put up much better numbers than he currently is (unless he improves his route running or his hands), and his numbers are good, not great.

And for what it's worth, last year, Mike Wallace beat DeSean in just about every single statistic.

[BlackJackRabbit]

Re: Madden NFL 12 Ratings - Top 6 Wide Receivers

Drop percentage is drops/catchable balls (meaning it excludes the balls that are inaccurate), which is why Larry Fitzgerald's catch percentage is low but his drop percentage is good.

DeSean Jackson has both one of the worst catch percentages in the league and the worst drop percentage in the league (and the only player that drops over 20% of catchable passes last year).

Over the past 3 seasons, it was only slightly better, as he was still in the bottom 5 with the likes of Braylon Edwards, Randy Moss, and Terrell Owens.

Are they good WRs? Absolutely (and I think Moss and T.O. are HOF bound). But regardless, all four of those guys are known for not having the best hands (although when Moss actually tries, they're pretty good).

But if you think it was just because Vick is an inaccurate passer (which as I said, drop percentage is only drops/catchable passes), here's the other Philly receivers who should have pretty bad catch percentages as well if Vick was the problem.

Maclin: 61%
Avant: 68%
Cooper: 39% (but only 19 passes thrown to him)
Jackson: 49% (on nearly 100 passes)

According to DVAR (an advanced stat that figures out yards over replacement adjusted for the defense), Jackson is rated behind both Maclin and Avant, and finds himself ranked 45th in the league, just after Jabar Gaffney. According to DVOA (adjusted value over average), Jackson ranks 3rd on the team again, and finds himself ranked 44th in the league.

Last year, ranking the guys that went deep the highest percentage of their catches, Jackson ranks 9th. Of the 8 guys above him, he had a higher catch percentage than 2 (Lee Evans and Malcolm Floyd). Steve Breaston went deep .5% less, and had probably the most inaccurate QBs in the league last year (no way to really prove this, but come on, they were god awful), and even he had a 54% catch percentage.

So again, is DeSean a good WR? Absolutely. If you rank the WRs by win probablility added, Jackson ranks 5th. If you rank them by expected points added, Jackson ranks 10th. But is he a top 5 WR? There's no chance in hell, and I think it's debateable at best that he's a top 10 WR. He's already getting targeted over 100 times per season easily if he stays healthy, so there's really no reason to expect him to put up much better numbers than he currently is (unless he improves his route running or his hands), and his numbers are good, not great.

And for what it's worth, last year, Mike Wallace beat DeSean in just about every single statistic.

I'm done arguing. Jackson doesn't have suspect hands nor is his route running suspect. It's funny that you keep ignoring the fact that Desean isn't among the league leaders in drops, just drop %.

Do you have access to coaches tape or something? That's the only way you could actually analyze Jackson's route running.

[ibigmike]

calvin johnson is the second best receiver on this list behind aj.! period.!

[Yeah...THAT Guy]

Re: Madden NFL 12 Ratings - Top 6 Wide Receivers

I'm done arguing. Jackson doesn't have suspect hands nor is his route running suspect. It's funny that you keep ignoring the fact that Desean isn't among the league leaders in drops, just drop %.

Do you have access to coaches tape or something? That's the only way you could actually analyze Jackson's route running.

Please point out where I say he's a bad or suspect route runner. All I say is the only way his stats will get better is if he catches the ball more and if he runs better routes. That's a fact. He's already getting over 100 targets per year easily. That's as much as you can ask for as a WR. Jackson dropped somewhere between 8-10 passes last year depending on your definition of a drop, which again, is among the league leaders last year. PFF says he dropped it 12 times. I disagree. But it's definitely in the 8-10 range, which still puts him near the worst in the league in both drops and drop percentage. You obviously have some sort of crush on DeSean Jackson dude. Everyone has favorite players and everyone believes their favorite is better than he is. It's alright. Jackson is an excellent home run threat, an excellent punt returner, and a good wide receiver. That's a pretty damn good player. But the fact of the matter is that his hands are pretty suspect, and he doesn't do much over the middle of the field like most of the other top WRs in the NFL.

[TheAlter95]

And clearly, Mike & Mike are the definitive source for football knowledge.

I'm not saying I disagree, I'm just saying that "because Mike & Mike said so" is a laughable reason.


You can just click the Edit button on the post and fix it that way.

lol, darnit