In a nutshell, what's wrong with next gen madden.

[kmart2180]

Re: In a nutshell, what's wrong with next gen madden.

The Secondary needs to play smarter all together. I dont understand why they program a safety to go cover a 5-10 out wr when a TE/slot wr is going deep in there zone. And cover 2 corners dont leave that out untill they see the qb about to throw to the rb/fb usually. In madden they go right to the rb/fb leaving the out causing the safety to go there to early in the play....leading to wide open TE/slot wr's.

I hate having to tell myself not to what i call " abuse/spam Vernon Davis"on offense in these type situations or he'd have 300+ yards a game.

Back to OP topic.....I dont recall last gen maddens having these "pre-determand outcomes, or at least i dont remember them as much. The easiest way to see that this is true is just play best team vs worst team in franchise mode and at the end of the game quit it and play it again. Last gen it didnt matter how many times you reset it the better team won usually. Now its always a completely opposite outcome. And i dont just mean on wins and losses. You could have a hall of fame qb go from dominating to struggling from game to game and why? Its the same bum team....Its there way of implementing "any given sunday" which is cool and all if it didnt feel so cheap and fixed or maybe even scripted is the better term. You all had to have the game where they script you to lose and your 90+ rb just happens to fumble on 2 back to back series right lol.

[chrome_305]

Re: In a nutshell, what's wrong with next gen madden.

This is my problem with madden....I can't even get through the first quarter without getting bored and turning the game off.The audio is garbage, animations look weird, no gang tackling(like back breaker), commentary puts me to sleep and players on the field make me feel like I'm playing a pin ball game.


The game is just not inviting. It's a shame really since I like football but I think madden is for casual fans and not sim fans.Good thing I rented this game or I would be pissed.

[Broncos86]

Re: In a nutshell, what's wrong with next gen madden.

This is my problem with madden....I can't even get through the first quarter without getting bored and turning the game off.The audio is garbage, animations look weird, no gang tackling(like back breaker), commentary puts me to sleep and players on the field make me feel like I'm playing a pin ball game.


The game is just not inviting. It's a shame really since I like football but I think madden is for casual fans and not sim fans.Good thing I rented this game or I would be pissed.

Just wanted to correct one thing: Madden 12 specifically added gang tackles.

[Illustrator76]

Re: In a nutshell, what's wrong with next gen madden.

A total, complete and utter lack of technique, animations and execution for every single position of the field.

[PGaither84]

Re: In a nutshell, what's wrong with next gen madden.

P, I think you might be better off just letting Madden 12 go. You might be getting frustrated for no real good reason with Madden 13 in the pipeline.

I want to enjoy Madden 12. I want to win with my 49ers in franchise mode.

I don't want to blow out the computer. I also don't want to buy a 2nd controller and build defensive game plans just to make the AI play some real defense.

I want sliders that make game play more realistic. I don't want sliders that just make my players terrible in order to make the game tougher.

"Oh, look, my receivers can't catch, my line can't block, my back never breaks a tackle and fumbles all the time. My defense can't cover or tackle. This is fun and challenging." No.

Offensive game plan for the run first 49ers: Don't run the ball, spread them out and throw over the middle all day. Score all the points!







I guess part of my frustration as a Madden gamer and a fan of real life football is that my team kicked a TON of field goals and had trouble punching it in for TDs. Suddenly I play the same, but I am able to convert and put 6 points on the board and not just 3... so it's a blow out. It just feels liek passing is too easy because the defense doesn't defend very well, even with All-madden sliders and 100 reaction time. I have 75 interception. Maybe I should try 100. I dunno.

[RGiles36]

Re: In a nutshell, what's wrong with next gen madden.

The AI leaves the middle of the field open all day. Sure, they will cover it on some plays, but not very many. Just attack the middle on almost every down and you will see enough plays wide open to put up 21 points per half on the D...

I guess everyone has a unique experience. I don't find that the middle of the field is always open -- with the exception of the 'Four Verts'. The inner most WR/TE almost always breaks behind the defense for a big gain.

And even if there was an open area of the field, All-Madden suggests that my offensive line may not be able to hold their blocks long enough to successfully complete the pass.

"Oh, look, my receivers can't catch, my line can't block, my back never breaks a tackle and fumbles all the time. My defense can't cover or tackle. This is fun and challenging." No.

I think that's a simplistic way to look at it, but it's a matter of perspective.

My perspective is that All-Madden doesn't make my team incompetent, but rather it puts a premium on acquiring players with higher ratings. That chase for better players has breathed life into my franchise. I look forward to getting some talent on the D-line to finally slow down the run, and some interior OL help to give me more time in the pocket.

While difficulty and AI are separate things, they are intertwined. I don't know how one expects to have a more difficult game without the game manipulating player behavior to a degree. In NBA2K, the AI tends to get open easily and knock down those shots on higher difficulties. The AI doesn't outsmart you, it just makes the game harder. Essentially, Madden is doing the same thing.

[m1ke_nyc]

Re: In a nutshell, what's wrong with next gen madden.

Just wanted to correct one thing: Madden 12 specifically added gang tackles.

correction they added consecutive hit tackles up to 3, and a double hit tackle can be made, there is no true gang tackling in Madden 12. We had that somewhat with pro tak but it was heavily flawed.

[Broncos86]

Re: In a nutshell, what's wrong with next gen madden.

correction they added consecutive hit tackles up to 3, and a double hit tackle can be made, there is no true gang tackling in Madden 12. We had that somewhat with pro tak but it was heavily flawed.

Good luck arguing that subjective point. We've been around the block 100 times on it already.

[Tyrant8RDFL]

Re: In a nutshell, what's wrong with next gen madden.

While I certainly have some complaints about NCAA12, I do feel I have a bit more input while playing that game. But Madden just has a different feel.

I agree with this statement big time.

[chrome_305]

Re: In a nutshell, what's wrong with next gen madden.

correction they added consecutive hit tackles up to 3, and a double hit tackle can be made, there is no true gang tackling in Madden 12. We had that somewhat with pro tak but it was heavily flawed.

You sir are correct.

I want gang tackling like Back Breaker has in its game.I don't want a cut scene of a pile up by both teams.I also don't want to see the double hit tackle because momentum is not a factor.That is just one thing that is wrong with madden.The list has been growing for 7+ years.

I did find another issue I have with madden and that is everyone moves the same, throws the same and mirror each other.It's kind of funny watching all the CPU players pivot at the same time.

[Only1LT]

Re: In a nutshell, what's wrong with next gen madden.

Just wanted to correct one thing: Madden 12 specifically added gang tackles.

He said like Backbreaker.

[PGaither84]

Re: In a nutshell, what's wrong with next gen madden.

My perspective is that All-Madden doesn't make my team incompetent, but rather it puts a premium on acquiring players with higher ratings. That chase for better players has breathed life into my franchise. I look forward to getting some talent on the D-line to finally slow down the run, and some interior OL help to give me more time in the pocket.

Well, I was referring to custom All-Madden Sliders to make the experience even more difficult. I am already playing with 15 user accuracy, 0 pas blocking and 30 catching. Sure, that is 5 points higher than default all-madden catching, but any lower than 30 and it feels like how I described. Make it harder by making your receivers drop passes all game. Right now, unless they have high catch in traffic, they drop it when they get popped. They also drop open passes from time to time as well. Below 30, it feels like a catch is the exception.

I have Tackling on 25 against 30 CPU break tackle. If you go 10 or more points higher on break tackle, you watch receivers break tackles and run for scores or huge gains on most pas play. Also, Backs tend to pick up 12ypc.

I am trying to find better sliders, but sliders can only do so much. They can't make the AI call good plays, make adjustments, or anything like that. I am interested in getting sliders where the ratings and match ups matter. I like to play football, but user control just ruins everything... even when I try to play sim. "Look at me, I'm not generally careless with the football. I found a a hole in the defense and made a play. I am now winning 28-7 at half time. I just broke my hand patting myself on the back."

I think, and this is just an idea, that the lack of mistakes and penalties along with poor game play leads to unrealistic play and results despite how realistic you try to play the game.

I am not a great Madden player, and I don't think you have to be to be too good for the computer. You have to have a certain level of skill/knowledge, but you don't have to be an expert either.

While difficulty and AI are separate things, they are intertwined. I don't know how one expects to have a more difficult game without the game manipulating player behavior to a degree. In NBA2K, the AI tends to get open easily and knock down those shots on higher difficulties. The AI doesn't outsmart you, it just makes the game harder. Essentially, Madden is doing the same thing.

I just don't know basketball enough to be any good. I play around with it, use the Sacramento Kings and try to be "not awful." I enjoy the presentation and just enjoy it.

I can't do the same thing with Madden. I know what I am doing, and it looks the the computer doesn't.

[KBLover]

Re: In a nutshell, what's wrong with next gen madden.

I think, and this is just an idea, that the lack of mistakes and penalties along with poor game play leads to unrealistic play and results despite how realistic you try to play the game.

And then you're using sliders to try to emulate those mistakes, but since the mistakes don't really exist, they show up as more "Madden shortcut" type deals, like passes going to defenders or 10 yds out of bounds sometimes.

But in order to get just more misfires, the trade off is the wildly inaccurate passes. I play on 7 QB Acc, 20 WR catching, and finally, I see my weaker RTE WR messing up routes and throwing off timing of the pass play, I see stone-handed players "alligator arm" catches and not grab all my misfires (I don't think there's too many drops, I've seen guys make some seriously good catches on some of my throws, even on contact, and I don't User catch).

But then it might increase "psychic DBs" or make the "run the route before the WR" show up some more, etc.

Same thing on defense. It's hard to get false steps and misreads without making them utterly stupid or just play bad football. The tackling is another. You want some missed tackles but then you don't want it to happen constantly or with little regard to ratings.

I won't even go there with penalties. Eventually, I'll go back to screwing around with them, but not right now...and maybe not until/if I venture in M13.

[PGaither84]

Re: In a nutshell, what's wrong with next gen madden.

I wanted to make a separate reply about what I want from my game play experience:

Alex Smith isn't VERY accurate... but even with 15 accuracy and L stick Passing I can be accurate enough and manage my throws. I can't make every throw with him, so I don't try. However, I can shred a defense with him and my weapons.

This brings me to my next part... my weapons. They start and end with Vernon in the passing game. I like Crabtree and Morgan [who is now a Redskin] but they both only have like 84 or so route running. They should be almost worthless against man coverage... but that's okay, thanks to L stick Passing, I can throw them open or find the open receiver in the zone. Also, Davis can just tear it up all day long too.

The O-Line can run block really well, but only my LT and LG can pas protect worth a darn. With poor pass blocking and poor receiver play, it should be hard to move the ball in the air. There i a reason the 49ers went 1/13 [or really 0/12] on 3rd down agaisn the Giants. There is a reason why the first come back score agaisnt the saints was a QB scramble and the other was a TD to 97+ OVR super TE Vernon Davis. When I play Madden, I can spread the rock and the love around even against 100 reaction time and 75 interception [thinking about 100 interception when I turn the game back on just to try and improve coverage.] I don't think I should be have such a successful passing attack. But it shouldn't be drop city and wild passes all over the field either. I should have to scramble and throw the ball away or check down a lot... until I get good receivers. Hopefully Moss and Manningham will help this year.

[Broncos86]

Re: In a nutshell, what's wrong with next gen madden.

Yeah, I'd say it's safe to expect O-Line/D-Line play to remain largely the same for this year.