Madden 13 emphasizing post-launch support

[Fist Of Kings]

Re: Madden 13 emphasizing post-launch support

So basically you're saying, "We're looking into it" like the topic creator said? People pay good money for these games and it's disappointing to see these vague answers that don't really answer anything. This game has a bunch of issues that add up and ruin the experience.

If you guys are going to basically leave this game as it is, I'd like know instead of me holding on to this game hoping for missing features to be returned or bugs being fixed.

[EmmdotFrisk]

Re: Madden 13 emphasizing post-launch support

So basically you're saying, "We're looking into it" like the topic creator said? People pay good money for these games and it's disappointing to see these vague answers that don't really answer anything. This game has a bunch of issues that add up and ruin the experience.

If you guys are going to basically leave this game as it is, I'd like know instead of me holding on to this game hoping for missing features to be returned or bugs being fixed.

I will give you more answers when I have them. When we know what will be addressed, you will know. There is absolutely no point to try and string our fans along.

[Big FN Deal]

Re: Madden 13 emphasizing post-launch support

The goal is to create a realistic NFL simulation and quality video game. Things that are currently in Madden are designed to emulate reality.

This is exactly what I mean. If you and the dev team truly believe this statement then how is it reasonable for people that don't believe this is the case and have posted many different forms of evidence to support their belief, to think Madden will ever optimally replicate football?

I am not trying to have some "gotcha" moment or anything silly like that, I am just trying to relay that there is a disconnect between what EA Tiburon says they want to accomplish in Madden and what they actually do. Madden 13 implemented 430 new catch animations, according to EA Tiburon, yet they seem to be accessible by any and every player on the football field, beyond the LOS. That's not designed to emulate reality and if people affiliated with making Madden believe it is, then again, I don't see how this game can ever be optimally realistic.

I am not trying to call you out, I am trying to expose the underline issue, imo, this blatant disconnect. The first step to improvement is admitting there is a problem and I see that disconnect as a fundamental problem that more resources, less "suit" influence or new consoles can not fix.

[EmmdotFrisk]

Re: Madden 13 emphasizing post-launch support

This is exactly what I mean. If you and the dev team truly believe this statement then how is it reasonable for people that don't believe this is the case and have posted many different forms of evidence to support their belief, to think Madden will ever optimally replicate football?

I am not trying to have some "gotcha" moment or anything silly like that, I am just trying to relay that there is a disconnect between what EA Tiburon says they want to accomplish in Madden and what they actually do. Madden 13 implemented 430 new catch animations, according to EA Tiburon, yet they seem to be accessible by any and every player on the football field, beyond the LOS. That's not designed to emulate reality and if people affiliated with making Madden believe it is, then again, I don't see how this game can ever be optimally realistic.

I am not trying to call you out, I am trying to expose the underline issue, imo, this blatant disconnect. The first step to improvement is admitting there is a problem and I see that disconnect as a fundamental problem that more resources, less "suit" influence or new consoles can not fix.

I believe the disconnect is the level of emulation. The hardcore community wants 100% authenticity. We want real life to = Madden. While I would love this, I understand the limitations of making a video game.

I cannot talk to my players and tell them assignments like in real life, so there is a playcall screen the emulates that.

I cannot scream at my CB when he gets beat on the same route every time. He will not then adjust to the route. Someone would have to design and develop a way to replicate this exact scenario. Now think about every scenario possible in the game of football and try and think of a way to replicate that in game.

What it comes down to is creativity and good design to try and get to as close as possible as the real life counterpart. So in this instance what you are saying is Madden is designed poorly. The designs don't reflect the exactness of how you would like to see it emulate or replicate real life.

For example, Total Control Passing was designed to give the QB more control with throwing to open parts of the field. While the concept is great and it is implemented ok, it could be better. QB accuracy needs to play a bigger role. QB awareness needs to play a bigger role, and lastly, WR skills needs to play the biggest role.

Now lets walk through the mind of a designer. How do we get the WR to react to the new pass realistically. We can't tell him, react to ball in air, so we have to program it through logic.

Lets say an elite WR with high Awareness, route running, and agility can get to a ball 5 yards off his route Max. So how do we get this to play out on the game.

Maybe we find an average rating for the WR's AWR, RTE, and AGI which equates to a number. If the range of # is between X and Y, player reacts to new trajectory after Z yards.

So the formula might be:

X = (AWR + RTE + AGI)/3

If X => 90
Then Y = 3 yards

If X =between 80 to 89
Then Y = 4 yards

If X =between 70 to 79
Then Y = 5 yards

If X =between 60 to 69
Then Y = 6 yards

If X =between 50 to 59
Then Y = 7 yards

If X =between 40 to 49
Then Y = 8 yards


This would mean that the ball would have to travel Y amount of yards in the air AFTER seeing the ball, before the WR reacted to the new trajectory.


Right now, the WR just adjust immediately once the ball leaves the QB hand.

[homeycool]

Re: Madden 13 emphasizing post-launch support

I will give you more answers when I have them. When we know what will be addressed, you will know. There is absolutely no point to try and string our fans along.

EmmdotFrisk you are the man! I would have lost my cool so many times over if I had to deal with same responses over and over.

The point of making this thread was not to start a bashing spree, but honestly evaluate whether or not EA has lived up to what the article said about community interaction and post-launch feedback.

I do think EA has done better in some regards, mainly you and your constant interaction with this tough crowd, but it could be much better in my opinion. For instances, we still have not had a third patch confirmed. I know that it is not practical to specify fixes until they are certain to be fixed, but I would be VERY surprised if EA didn't KNOW if there is or is not going to be a 3rd patch.

From what it sounds like to me, EA uses a waterfall process model to develop their software. In which case it seems like the team is in the designing phase of these feature additions and bug fixes, which is why they are unable to commit to fixing them until they have a workable design/solution all mapped out.

I'm pretty sure based on the information you are giving us that they are well past gathering and developing requirements. The old adage is that if proper time is given to design, then coding is straight forward and will take less time than designing. Of course, there is still verification and testing that needs to happen before anything is ready to go out (this is internally, not the verification done by Sony and Microsoft)

My guess (which is just that, a complete guess) is that we are about 3-4 weeks from a 3rd patch being released, if in fact there is a 3rd patch in the works.

[roadman]

Re: Madden 13 emphasizing post-launch support

EmmdotFrisk you are the man! I would have lost my cool so many times over if I had to deal with same responses over and over.

The point of making this thread was not to start a bashing spree, but honestly evaluate whether or not EA has lived up to what the article said about community interaction and post-launch feedback.

I do think EA has done better in some regards, mainly you and your constant interaction with this tough crowd, but it could be much better in my opinion. For instances, we still have not had a third patch confirmed. I know that it is not practical to specify fixes until they are certain to be fixed, but I would be VERY surprised if EA didn't KNOW if there is or is not going to be a 3rd patch.

From what it sounds like to me, EA uses a waterfall process model to develop their software. In which case it seems like the team is in the designing phase of these feature additions and bug fixes, which is why they are unable to commit to fixing them until they have a workable design/solution all mapped out.

I'm pretty sure based on the information you are giving us that they are well past gathering and developing requirements. The old adage is that if proper time is given to design, then coding is straight forward and will take less time than designing. Of course, there is still verification and testing that needs to happen before anything is ready to go out (this is internally, not the verification done by Sony and Microsoft)

My guess (which is just that, a complete guess) is that we are about 3-4 weeks from a 3rd patch being released, if in fact there is a 3rd patch in the works.

Which is pretty much how patches from Madden and NCAA have proceeded in the past. For Madden, the last patch usually drops sometime in October.

[huskerwr38]

Re: Madden 13 emphasizing post-launch support

AI playcalling cannot be fixed with a tuner but we know its a major issue.

Well, in looking at the tuner updates for NHL, it seems like they mostly adjust AI issues that deal with abilities, like some sort of internal slider set. Is this what tuners can do? Can you explain exactly what tuners can be used for. Thanks

[Big FN Deal]

Re: Madden 13 emphasizing post-launch support

I believe the disconnect is the level of emulation. The hardcore community wants 100% authenticity. We want real life to = Madden. While I would love this, I understand the limitations of making a video game...(Abbreviated for space)

Who pray tell, does this disconnect apply to? Quite often when I engage in a discussion about the realism lacking in Madden, someone retorts with "no game is perfect" in various wording. I consider myself a reasonable person and you too, so of course no reasonable person expects a "100% authenticity". I have stated many times that the vast majority of my expectations for this video game, Madden, comes from what I have seen or experienced in other video games to emulate real life, not real itself.

To the ideas offered in your post, those sound great for innovation for total control passing in a video game but I don't understand why Madden can't copy what other football games have done before, until they achieve a way to do it better. Again, I am not presenting wishlists or uneducated ideas with respect to programming about how to improve Madden, I am just asking why can't the devs emulate NFL realism in Madden the way and at the level other devs have in other video games?

[EmmdotFrisk]

Re: Madden 13 emphasizing post-launch support

Who pray tell, does this disconnect apply to? Quite often when I engage in a discussion about the realism lacking in Madden, someone retorts with "no game is perfect" in various wording. I consider myself a reasonable person and you too, so of course no reasonable person expects a "100% authenticity". I have stated many times that the vast majority of my expectations for this video game, Madden, comes from what I have seen or experienced in other video games to emulate real life, not real itself.

To the ideas offered in your post, those sound great for innovation for total control passing in a video game but I don't understand why Madden can't copy what other football games have done before, until they achieve a way to do it better. Again, I am not presenting wishlists or uneducated ideas with respect to programming about how to improve Madden, I am just asking why can't the devs emulate NFL realism in Madden the way and at the level other devs have in other video games?

What do you mean by copy? Do you mean cut and paste code? or try and re-create?

[GiantBlue76]

Re: Madden 13 emphasizing post-launch support

What do you mean by copy? Do you mean cut and paste code? or try and re-create?

Come on man, give the guy some credit. Of course he doesn't mean cut and paste the code. He means recreating what other games have been able to do.

[EmmdotFrisk]

Re: Madden 13 emphasizing post-launch support

Well, in looking at the tuner updates for NHL, it seems like they mostly adjust AI issues that deal with abilities, like some sort of internal slider set. Is this what tuners can do? Can you explain exactly what tuners can be used for. Thanks

Things that are predicated by sliders, difficulty, speed. So some AI can be tuned but some can't. It really comes down to the exact issue on a case by case basis.

[EmmdotFrisk]

Re: Madden 13 emphasizing post-launch support

Come on man, give the guy some credit. Of course he doesn't mean cut and paste the code. He means recreating what other games have been able to do.

Give the guy some credit. What are you talking about?

[EmmdotFrisk]

Re: Madden 13 emphasizing post-launch support

Come on man, give the guy some credit. Of course he doesn't mean cut and paste the code. He means recreating what other games have been able to do.

This is a legitimate question because he didn't specify which games.

He didn't say previous EA games which would imply copy, paste. Nor did he give specific examples.

[TreFacTor]

Re: Madden 13 emphasizing post-launch support

Give the guy some credit. What are you talking about?

Big FN Deal wasn't suggesting copying code from a game EA doesn't own into Madden....we may not be programmers but we're smarter than that. He is referring to copying what other games have done successfully that Madden has failed to do this entire generation of consoles.

The fundamentals of football (proper pocket formation)
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/GQ3nCh7KTX4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Respect to player movement and interaction
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/KdaxTY3OqiQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Remove scripted outcomes of plays or interactions
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/GAM8IjljHvQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/npEeGsHuKqU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


Some people can overlook these things... others can not.

This is a legitimate question because he didn't specify which games.

He didn't say previous EA games which would imply copy, paste. Nor did he give specific examples.

Come on.....did you REALLY think he was suggesting using old code from previous Maddens? That didn't work out so well this year.

[bucky60]

Re: Madden 13 emphasizing post-launch support

I will give you more answers when I have them. When we know what will be addressed, you will know. There is absolutely no point to try and string our fans along.

Good morning Emmd.

I guess my concern would be, if your team doesn't even know what can or can't be fixed at this time, then we can't even be close to a patch release. Could you at least give us a MINIMUM wait. Not an actual date of release, but just a, it won't be for AT LEAST XXXXXXX.