Madden NFL 25 Demo Available Now, Post Your Impressions (360, PS3)

[GiantBlue76]

Re: Madden NFL 25 Demo Available Now, Post Your Impressions (360, PS3)

Well I just fired up the demo for a quick confirmation on a concern I had about player differential and sure enough it's present. Anyone can feel free to try it out themselves, I played with the Packers(me) vs Seahawks(cpu) and subbed out the starting TE for an Offensive lineman. Sure enough he ran routes just as crisp as if it were Finely. Granted he could NOT make plays on the ball or catches like Finely but as far as the release off the line, route running and YAC, any difference was negligible.

There was one play where the TE/OL was wide open on a horizontal out towards the sideline, due to two receivers going deep vertical, he caught the ball and turned it up field along the sideline as if he were an agile light on his feet skill position player, not a 300+ pound lineman.

Also, the foot planting was definitely a needed addition but it seems to be generic and superimposed with little to no regard for player height, weight or applicable ratings. So it seems that like in M13, IE is just about adding physics for certain collisions or contact, not about bringing physics to how the entire game is animated and plays out. Kudos to anyone that is enjoying the demo and will enjoy the retail but I just can't overlook this stuff anymore.

I hope all these word games and slight of hand stop with Madden on the new consoles. Now I wonder if the fluid movement touted for Ignite Engine is something that will impact the entire game or will it be more of the same.

Wow... Just wow... Why oh why can we not get a realistic moving football game??? Why is player movement so hard to manage? This is very disappointing.

So you mean to tell me that the lineman was able to get open too???

[Big FN Deal]

Re: Madden NFL 25 Demo Available Now, Post Your Impressions (360, PS3)

Wow... Just wow... Why oh why can we not get a realistic moving football game??? Why is player movement so hard to manage? This is very disappointing.

So you mean to tell me that the lineman was able to get open too???

Take what I say with a grain of salt because I am a Madden hatemonger but I couldn't tell any difference. I look forward to what those that do deeper analysis on the game have to say later.

[ch46647]

Re: Madden NFL 25 Demo Available Now, Post Your Impressions (360, PS3)

Wow... Just wow... Why oh why can we not get a realistic moving football game??? Why is player movement so hard to manage? This is very disappointing.

So you mean to tell me that the lineman was able to get open too???

Completely agree, you can tell there was not a complete re-write to the locomotion and that is what this game desperately needs. They did add some foot planting to the ball carrier, but it IS NOT universal.

I think that is one of the reasons why this game feels so stale. The movement still is not even close to being realistic, and unless you are the ball carrier, players are still gliding and skating across the field at warp speed.

This is especially noticeable with catch up speed, the reason why there is very little "open field" in this game is players all speed up when they are behind the play. It is like a magnet to the ball carrier. When you intercept a ball on offense, watch how fast the offensive lineman come in pursuit at you...

LOCOMOTION is still not fixed, and is still the #1 problem with this game IMO.

Lastly, the second biggest problem is this infinity engine just does not represent physics well at all. NHL and FIFA are on the right track with their collision engines.

I challlenge all of you to simply download the NHL demo next Tuesday, and feel how much better the gameplay looks and feels. Madden just feels so disjointed, and everything seems pre-determined and out of our control...

[TalenT]

Re: Madden NFL 25 Demo Available Now, Post Your Impressions (360, PS3)

So I download the demo last night, boot it up & it gets hung (freezes) during one of the pre-game scenes. LOL

.....Not a good start.

[Only1LT]

Re: Madden NFL 25 Demo Available Now, Post Your Impressions (360, PS3)

Also, the foot planting was definitely a needed addition but it seems to be generic and superimposed with little to no regard for player height, weight or applicable ratings. So it seems that like in M13, IE is just about adding physics for certain collisions or contact, not about bringing physics to how the entire game is animated and plays out. Kudos to anyone that is enjoying the demo and will enjoy the retail but I just can't overlook this stuff anymore.

I hope all these word games and slight of hand stop with Madden on the new consoles. Now I wonder if the fluid movement touted for Ignite Engine is something that will impact the entire game or will it be more of the same.

I had wanted to touch on this as well, but my impression was already quite long.

The fact that they added foot planting, in and of itself, is nice, but it's pretty cosmetic. Not only doesn't it animate all that great (there is not much, if any, indication of weight transfer in the animation, just a foot plant for foot plant's sake) but it doesn't slow you down all that much either. This is why I said a couple pages back that people saying zigzag or swerve running is dead, were overstating the case. The animation may no longer zig zag, but the changes of direction don't impose too much of a speed penalty or loss of balance, so it's kind 6 of one, half dozen of the other.

Now this isn't to say that there aren't improvements in both animation and locomotion. The game does look, feel, and control better. It doesn't extend to receiver routes, unfortunately, because they make some really unrealistic cuts and that's probably a part of the reason why receivers are getting open so easily a lot of the time.

I'm very skeptical about the True Step on Next Gen too. Holding out hope and waiting on judgement, but I'd be lying if I didn't say that my Spidey sense is tingling...

[ch46647]

Re: Madden NFL 25 Demo Available Now, Post Your Impressions (360, PS3)

Wow... Just wow... Why oh why can we not get a realistic moving football game??? Why is player movement so hard to manage? This is very disappointing.

So you mean to tell me that the lineman was able to get open too???

IMO, if the next-Gen Madden 25 simply just completely changes the locomotion for ALL PLAYERS on the field then we will be on the right track.

This is one of the biggest reasons why defense is not any fun, and hasnt been for 8 years. You feel so out of control on defense because your user controlled guy is using one locomotion system, while everyone on the field is using a completely different locomotion system.

There is little to no sense of foot planting, momentum, weight, acceleration/de-celeration to any AI controlled players.

This ladies and gentleman, is the #1 reason why Madden has felt so off and disjointed this entire generation.

The new "True-Step" has to work and HAS to be universal if we are to have hope next-generation.

[GiantBlue76]

Re: Madden NFL 25 Demo Available Now, Post Your Impressions (360, PS3)

Completely agree, you can tell there was not a complete re-write to the locomotion and that is what this game desperately needs. They did add some foot planting to the ball carrier, but it IS NOT universal.

I think that is one of the reasons why this game feels so stale. The movement still is not even close to being realistic, and unless you are the ball carrier, players are still gliding and skating across the field at warp speed.

This is especially noticeable with catch up speed, the reason why there is very little "open field" in this game is players all speed up when they are behind the play. It is like a magnet to the ball carrier. When you intercept a ball on offense, watch how fast the offensive lineman come in pursuit at you...

LOCOMOTION is still not fixed, and is still the #1 problem with this game IMO.

Lastly, the second biggest problem is this infinity engine just does not represent physics well at all. NHL and FIFA are on the right track with their collision engines.

I challlenge all of you to simply download the NHL demo next Tuesday, and feel how much better the gameplay looks and feels. Madden just feels so disjointed, and everything seems pre-determined and out of our control...

I've been harping on player movement for YEARS now. Almost to the point where I may actually be going insane. Think about this for a second... PLAYER MOVEMENT. This should be the VERY FIRST thing that is properly addressed in ANY sports game. No matter what kind of facemasks, socks, uniforms, celebrations, presentation or audio you have in the game, if the players move unrealistically on the field, the game is going to stink. 2k got the attention of the Madden proper due to outstanding animation and player movement. It's just baffling to me...

[roadman]

Re: Madden NFL 25 Demo Available Now, Post Your Impressions (360, PS3)

I did have Graham Harrell come in for an injured Rodgers and he couldn't hit anything, just like in real life. lol

That's another thing, though. What the heck is with these injuries? My goodness, you could start a MASH unit with these injuries.

[jpdavis82]

Re: Madden NFL 25 Demo Available Now, Post Your Impressions (360, PS3)

I had wanted to touch on this as well, but my impression was already quite long.

The fact that they added foot planting, in and of itself, is nice, but it's pretty cosmetic. Not only doesn't it animate all that great (there is not much, if any, indication of weight transfer in the animation, just a foot plant for foot plant's sake) but it doesn't slow you down all that much either. This is why I said a couple pages back that people saying zigzag or swerve running is dead, were overstating the case. The animation may no longer zig zag, but the changes of direction don't impose too much of a speed penalty or loss of balance, so it's kind 6 of one, half dozen of the other.

Now this isn't to say that there aren't improvements in both animation and locomotion. The game does look, feel, and control better. It doesn't extend to receiver routes, unfortunately, because they make some really unrealistic cuts and that's probably a part of the reason why receivers are getting open so easily a lot of the time.

I'm very skeptical about the True Step on Next Gen too. Holding out hope and waiting on judgement, but I'd be lying if I didn't say that my Spidey sense is tingling...

I understand your skepticism, the way I understand it and this is based on a press row podcast I heard with Victor Lugo at E3. The current gen engine does not allow for transitional animations for every step. The ignite engine is supposed to allow for them for each step, which will be 3x the rate of animations allowed for locomotion vs current gen. The only time I heard a EA developer say zig zag and ice skating was totally gone, as far as I remember, was during the IGN interview with Cam Weber in reference to next gen. Simfballcritic said a while back that ice skating and zig zag can still happen on current gen, but it happens a lot less with Madden 25.

[ch46647]

Re: Madden NFL 25 Demo Available Now, Post Your Impressions (360, PS3)

I had wanted to touch on this as well, but my impression was already quite long.

The fact that they added foot planting, in and of itself, is nice, but it's pretty cosmetic. Not only doesn't it animate all that great (there is not much, if any, indication of weight transfer in the animation, just a foot plant for foot plant's sake) but it doesn't slow you down all that much either. This is why I said a couple pages back that people saying zigzag or swerve running is dead, were overstating the case. The animation may no longer zig zag, but the changes of direction don't impose too much of a speed penalty or loss of balance, so it's kind 6 of one, half dozen of the other.

Now this isn't to say that there aren't improvements in both animation and locomotion. The game does look, feel, and control better. It doesn't extend to receiver routes, unfortunately, because they make some really unrealistic cuts and that's probably a part of the reason why receivers are getting open so easily a lot of the time.

I'm very skeptical about the True Step on Next Gen too. Holding out hope and waiting on judgement, but I'd be lying if I didn't say that my Spidey sense is tingling...

On top of what seems like a completely different locomotion system for AI and user controlled players. This guy hit the nail on the head with what he said right here.

If there are any game changers reading this, please COPY AND PASTE these last few pages and send them to the developers. This is why Madden is so far off from a gamplay perspective from EA's own NHL and FIFA. Everything just seems so disjointed and out of control.

Football (any sport) is all about anticipation and reaction. You cannot anticipate or react to anything in Madden because the way the game animates and moves makes no sense.

It is the same way with the physics engine. In theory it is good, and sometimes it looks fantastic. But it is completely random and you literally have no clue what kind of results you are going to get.

(Back to hockey for a moment. Download the demo and grab Zdeno Chara, I guarantee you will know EXACTLY what will happen when you hit a smaller player)

[GiantBlue76]

Re: Madden NFL 25 Demo Available Now, Post Your Impressions (360, PS3)

On top of what seems like a completely different locomotion system for AI and user controlled players. This guy hit the nail on the head with what he said right here.

If there are any game changers reading this, please COPY AND PASTE these last few pages and send them to the developers. This is why Madden is so far off from a gamplay perspective from EA's own NHL and FIFA. Everything just seems so disjointed and out of control.

Football (any sport) is all about anticipation and reaction. You cannot anticipate or react to anything in Madden because the way the game animates and moves makes no sense.

It is the same way with the physics engine. In theory it is good, and sometimes it looks fantastic. But it is completely random and you literally have no clue what kind of results you are going to get.

(Back to hockey for a moment. Download the demo and grab Zdeno Chara, I guarantee you will know EXACTLY what will happen when you hit a smaller player)

I'm sorry, but we shouldn't need to jump through hoops and make notice of this. Either the developers are good enough to see this themselves or there is no hope for Madden ever getting to the next level.

[Big FN Deal]

Re: Madden NFL 25 Demo Available Now, Post Your Impressions (360, PS3)

I understand your skepticism, the way I understand it and this is based on a press row podcast I heard with Victor Lugo at E3. The current gen engine does not allow for transitional animations for every step. The ignite engine is supposed to allow for them for each step, which will be 3x the rate of animations allowed for locomotion vs current gen. The only time I heard a EA developer say zig zag and ice skating was totally gone, as far as I remember, was during the IGN interview with Cam Weber in reference to next gen. Simfballcritic said a while back that ice skating and zig zag can still happen on current gen, but it happens a lot less with Madden 25.

I guess trying to decipher all the Da Vinci Code like things from Tiburon about Madden are getting old for some. For instance, I believe Weber when he says that but I have no idea what it really means, in relation to how it effects game play. I am starting to think it may very well just be more cosmetics, meaning movement will look better and more fluid but have nothing to do with physics or player differential.

So we could essentially end up with a much more realistic moving Madden on new consoles but where every player moves basically the same. A 300+ pound OLineman should NOT be moving like an agile TE. Even if they add in a player modifier for every position, that still leaves players with lower ratings moving the same and skilled players doing so too, when not using the modifier.

[ghettogeeksta]

Re: Madden NFL 25 Demo Available Now, Post Your Impressions (360, PS3)

Cut scenes gotta gotta go! I don't want a fricken mini dance cam stopping the flow of the game. They need to have the players celebrate without stopping the game like other sports titles. If next gen Madden 25 have cut scenes especially the same old recycled ones from current gen, it's an auto fail and I won't buy it! My fricken thumbs are sore from pressing the A button to skip pass them.

[jpdavis82]

Re: Madden NFL 25 Demo Available Now, Post Your Impressions (360, PS3)

On top of what seems like a completely different locomotion system for AI and user controlled players. This guy hit the nail on the head with what he said right here.

If there are any game changers reading this, please COPY AND PASTE these last few pages and send them to the developers. This is why Madden is so far off from a gamplay perspective from EA's own NHL and FIFA. Everything just seems so disjointed and out of control.

Football (any sport) is all about anticipation and reaction. You cannot anticipate or react to anything in Madden because the way the game animates and moves makes no sense.

It is the same way with the physics engine. In theory it is good, and sometimes it looks fantastic. But it is completely random and you literally have no clue what kind of results you are going to get.

(Back to hockey for a moment. Download the demo and grab Zdeno Chara, I guarantee you will know EXACTLY what will happen when you hit a smaller player)

There's no need to do that, I talked to them about this months ago. They said this is something they have been stressing with the devs and the devs have been working on this, trying to figure out how to get weight & momentum to matter on next gen. The devs want to get where we do guys, it's just going to take a little longer. Not a lot longer, but a little bit longer.

[Only1LT]

Re: Madden NFL 25 Demo Available Now, Post Your Impressions (360, PS3)

I understand your skepticism, the way I understand it and this is based on a press row podcast I heard with Victor Lugo at E3. The current gen engine does not allow for transitional animations for every step. The ignite engine is supposed to allow for them for each step, which will be 3x the rate of animations allowed for locomotion vs current gen. The only time I heard a EA developer say zig zag and ice skating was totally gone, as far as I remember, was during the IGN interview with Cam Weber in reference to next gen. Simfballcritic said a while back that ice skating and zig zag can still happen on current gen, but it happens a lot less with Madden 25.

No, I read up and listened to the presentations of True Step. What I am skeptical about isn't the talking points, it's the IGN Live Demo.

Reading about and hearing about True Step, made it sound great. Watching the game actually in motion during the demo... was a mixed bag at best. Looked better than current gen Madden, but seemed to fall far short of what they were touting it to be. It seemed to be something that wasn't persistent. It would look just like current gen, then the runner would change direction or do a special move, and it would look all Next Gen like for that brief moment, then go right back to looking like current gen. It's early and they have time to go, so I'm not writing it off by any means. Just wasn't a great first impression and again, I'm a bit skeptical based, not only on track record, but by the only visual evidence of the tech in action that I have to go on at the moment. Nothing would make me happier than to be proven wrong about this as this is easily one of the biggest issues with the game.

I din't mean the devs said zigzagging was dead. I meant I had seen several GCs say it was dead.