Madden NFL 25 Demo Available Now, Post Your Impressions (360, PS3)

[roadman]

Re: Madden NFL 25 Demo Available Now, Post Your Impressions (360, PS3)

That's a horrible video lol. What difficulty was that on rookie? 13 sacks in a game! I enjoyed the sack dances but that was crazy. I did like the fact he beat him both inside and outside but Baluga was beaten like a drum all game.

Plus, I think a lot of those sacks were shown on replays, too. Two of Rodgers at the end w/safety, etc........

[icicle22]

Re: Madden NFL 25 Demo Available Now, Post Your Impressions (360, PS3)

I do remember in NCAA 13, there were a few streak plays that were just "money" plays. I would go to them if I was losing and had the ball on my own 20 with 15 seconds left to go. It felt cheap. If you have too much ability to throw safe long balls, it will absolutely break the game, since you'll run nothing else.

understood. But it kills the realism if I can never lead a receiver on a bomb. With Aaron Rodgers literally every pass seems to be underthrown. I had five picks, 4 of them on streaks where my guy had beaten the CB but Rodgers could never lead him. And I threw the ball early enough that it was a possibility. Madden 13 total control passing was never as good as 2k5 implementation but it was an improvement. I hate to see them undo this now but it does seem purposeful.....probably to take cheesing out of the game for online. Which kills the realism for those of us that choose to play "real" football.

[GiantBlue76]

Re: Madden NFL 25 Demo Available Now, Post Your Impressions (360, PS3)

Plus, I think a lot of those sacks were shown on replays, too. Two of Rodgers at the end w/safety, etc........

No they weren't. It showed him having 13 sacks in the stat overlay. Not to mention, the video proves my point. Did anyone notice ANY other lineman closing in other than Clemons who he was controlling? This is what I mean guys - SACKS DOES NOT EQUAL PRESSURE! Sacks are a result of good pass rushing or good coverage, but consistent pressure is what I am looking for. Meaning, I don't want ANY QB sitting in the pocket for 10+ seconds. I realize we all WANT this to be right in the game, but the fact is, it is NOT. NCAA has this working, which is what is so frustrating. No matter who you play in that game, if you sit in the pocket for more than 4 seconds, you are getting thumped. It completely collapses.

[GiantBlue76]

Re: Madden NFL 25 Demo Available Now, Post Your Impressions (360, PS3)

Not to play devils advocate but Seattle did sack Aaron 8 times in the FIRST HALF last year. As a Packers fan that video quickly reminded me of that nightmare of a game from start to finish.

Come on now... Let's not base things off of one particular occurrence that was more of an anomaly. Just because it happened once in real life, that doesn't mean it should happen consistently in the game. That's been a problem with Madden for a long time. Consistency is the key - realistic representation of the game the MAJORITY of the time.

[roadman]

Re: Madden NFL 25 Demo Available Now, Post Your Impressions (360, PS3)

No they weren't. It showed him having 13 sacks in the stat overlay. Not to mention, the video proves my point. Did anyone notice ANY other lineman closing in other than Clemons who he was controlling? This is what I mean guys - SACKS DOES NOT EQUAL PRESSURE! Sacks are a result of good pass rushing or good coverage, but consistent pressure is what I am looking for. Meaning, I don't want ANY QB sitting in the pocket for 10+ seconds. I realize we all WANT this to be right in the game, but the fact is, it is NOT. NCAA has this working, which is what is so frustrating. No matter who you play in that game, if you sit in the pocket for more than 4 seconds, you are getting thumped. It completely collapses.

Geez, sorry I didn't see the sack display, but my point still stands, there were replays of sacks in that video, if not, my eyes are going on me.

[GiantBlue76]

Re: Madden NFL 25 Demo Available Now, Post Your Impressions (360, PS3)

Geez, sorry I didn't see the sack display, but my point still stands, there were replays of sacks in that video, if not, my eyes are going on me.

That's ok Terry, I'm getting old too, lol.

[tril]

Re: Madden NFL 25 Demo Available Now, Post Your Impressions (360, PS3)

why are'nt the players actually touching the ground. its very noticeable after a play. as the players walk back to the huddle its like they are walking on air back to the huddle. when the get to the huddle its like they step down and they actually touch the grass. its also very noticeable on close ups.
I also noticed this in EA's basketball dribble video demo!!!

I don't know if this existed in previous Maddens but its very noticeable in Madden25.

[ghettogeeksta]

Re: Madden NFL 25 Demo Available Now, Post Your Impressions (360, PS3)

I thought it was known that they toned down precision passing this year.
IMO, passing is be broken in this game until the implement real ball physics. Fifa 14 now has Real Ball Physics, and NBA Live 14 has Bounce Tek, it's time for Madden to head in the same direction, I'm expecting them to implement real ball physics in Madden 15, but who knows, this franchise is always behind when it comes to innovation.

[Only1LT]

Re: Madden NFL 25 Demo Available Now, Post Your Impressions (360, PS3)

Could you elaborate on what was different about passing in 99 and 04/07? I played Gameday on ps1 so I don't have any recollection of that game and I don't remember 04 & 07 well enough to recall the passing....

Madden 99 was the introduction and quick death of something called Route Based Passing.

With Route Based Passing (RBP henceforth) you had a button, I believe it was L2, that was held to activate it.

What RBP did was change the way that Madden handles passing. How Madden handles passing, generally, is that the pass goes where the receiver is or direction he is running basically, and doesn't give much thought to what the route is, the read, or what the receiver is doing at a given point in time. For example. You have a curl route. The ball is snapped. You immediately get pressured. You throw the ball very early. The ball goes to the receiver. If he is still running upfield, it will turn it into a seam pass of sorts. The receiver knows it's in the air. Turns and catches the ball, or it's intercepted, or swatted, or dropped, etc. Basically no matter what scenario plays out, the ball has a chance to be caught by either the receiver or defender. ALWAYS! The same thing happens with a Fly pattern. Throw the ball the second you snap the ball and it will become some type of seam/out type pattern. Even though the ball should be thrown way downfield, it goes to the receiver only about 7yds downfield.

What you had in 99 was a pass mechanic that was route dependent or route tethered instead of receiver tethered. Example. You have a Go. You hold L2 (RBP button), you hit the icon of the receiver that is running the Go the second you snap the ball. All the same as in the other scenario, but with RBP, the ball still goes 50yds upfield. Doesn't matter that the receiver is nowhere near it, it knows what the route is and where it is supposed to be, so that's where it goes. This works the same for every route. Want to throw that Out or Flag before your receiver even breaks? Use the L2 button. Try this on Any other Madden and it will turn your Out or Flag into a seam type pass.

Now why would you want this? Many reasons. The biggest advantages are that it is more realistic. In life, you throw a Go by timing the throw. You know about how far you can throw a pass and you know how fast your receiver runs. You throw the ball at a certain time and you let him run under it. In Madden other than 99 (and 2003 and 07) it is very difficult to time the throw to have the receiver run under it. Even with Total Control Passing, which really doesn't exist, it's just a BS marketing name, but I digress, you rarely can lead the receiver enough to get it over the defender. The ball is tethered to the receiver by invisible forces (being dramatic) and will usually be underthrown. With RBP, if the pass is underthrown, it's your fault. You didn't throw it early enough. If it's overthrown, it's your fault. You threw it too early. The same works for every single route in the game.

This is the other benefit of RBP. You actually had passes hit the ground without being touched by either Offense or Defense. What a novel idea right? You would under and overthrow people all the time and it wasn't the AI making you do it, it was because you were in control and didn't do your job. Why couldn't you do your job? That's the last man advantage of RBP.

Pressure mattered. Not Pressure as in sacks. Sacks always matter, but pressure without sacks. Just like real life, when you felt pressure, you threw the ball earlier than you wanted. When you did that, the receiver wasn't looking for the ball, because he was not at the point of breaking in his route. When he's not out of his break, the ball gets thrown where you don't want it. This leads to balls in the dirt or balls in the hands of zone defenders that are in the right place at the right time and looking in the backfield.

All of this is nonexistent in Madden today. It makes no difference if you get pressured. Throw the ball at any time and it will be in the vicinity for the receiver, no matter the route or where he is in the route. If you are good at user catching, you prevent all but the most egregious errors from being an interception or even (gasp) a ball that hits the dirt. This is why 99 passing, to me, was so great.

The RBP button never appeared again on any Madden after 99, but there were routes in certain Madden games (2003 and 2007) that would mimic RBP, without the button. Mainly Go routes could be overthrown very easily and would also go over the heads of defenders very easily if you had even a step on the defender.

Madden passing became, and continues to become, more dumbed down and mindless ever since 99.

A similar type of RBP was subsequently found in the NFL2K franchise thereafter (cough, cough, coincidence, cough) but worked sans an actual RBP button. It didn't work as strictly route based as it did in Madden 99, though, and had a small bit of tethering. It was a much better mix then Tiburon has been able to come up with though and is nowhere near as blatant.

TLDR. Basically, like many other ideas, good and bad, Madden 99 introduced and touted and named a new feature, that happened to actually be quite great, and then it was removed after only one iteration, never to be seen again. At least not in an EA game.

[GiantBlue76]

Re: Madden NFL 25 Demo Available Now, Post Your Impressions (360, PS3)

Madden 99 was the introduction and quick death of something called Route Based Passing.

With Route Based Passing (RBP henceforth) you had a button, I believe it was L2, that was held to activate it.

What RBP did was change the way that Madden handles passing. How Madden handles passing, generally, is that the pass goes where the receiver is or direction he is running basically, and doesn't give much thought to what the route is, the read, or what the receiver is doing at a given point in time. For example. You have a curl route. The ball is snapped. You immediately get pressured. You throw the ball very early. The ball goes to the receiver. If he is still running upfield, it will turn it into a seam pass of sorts. The receiver knows it's in the air. Turns and catches the ball, or it's intercepted, or swatted, or dropped, etc. Basically no matter what scenario plays out, the ball has a chance to be caught by either the receiver or defender. ALWAYS! The same thing happens with a Fly pattern. Throw the ball the second you snap the ball and it will become some type of seam/out type pattern. Even though the ball should be thrown way downfield, it goes to the receiver only about 7yds downfield.

What you had in 99 was a pass mechanic that was route dependent or route tethered instead of receiver tethered. Example. You have a Go. You hold L2 (RBP button), you hit the icon of the receiver that is running the Go the second you snap the ball. All the same as in the other scenario, but with RBP, the ball still goes 50yds upfield. Doesn't matter that the receiver is nowhere near it, it knows what the route is and where it is supposed to be, so that's where it goes. This works the same for every route. Want to throw that Out or Flag before your receiver even breaks? Use the L2 button. Try this on Any other Madden and it will turn your Out or Flag into a seam type pass.

Now why would you want this? Many reasons. The biggest advantages are that it is more realistic. In life, you throw a Go by timing the throw. You know about how far you can throw a pass and you know how fast your receiver runs. You throw the ball at a certain time and you let him run under it. In Madden other than 99 (and 2003 and 07) it is very difficult to time the throw to have the receiver run under it. Even with Total Control Passing, which really doesn't exist, it's just a BS marketing name, but I digress, you rarely can lead the receiver enough to get it over the defender. The ball is tethered to the receiver by invisible forces (being dramatic) and will usually be underthrown. With RBP, if the pass is underthrown, it's your fault. You didn't throw it early enough. If it's overthrown, it's your fault. You threw it too early. The same works for every single route in the game.

This is the other benefit of RBP. You actually had passes hit the ground without being touched by either Offense or Defense. What a novel idea right? You would under and overthrow people all the time and it wasn't the AI making you do it, it was because you were in control and didn't do your job. Why couldn't you do your job? That's the last man advantage of RBP.

Pressure mattered. Not Pressure as in sacks. Sacks always matter, but pressure without sacks. Just like real life, when you felt pressure, you threw the ball earlier than you wanted. When you did that, the receiver wasn't looking for the ball, because he was not at the point of breaking in his route. When he's not out of his break, the ball gets thrown where you don't want it. This leads to balls in the dirt or balls in the hands of zone defenders that are in the right place at the right time and looking in the backfield.

All of this is nonexistent in Madden today. It makes no difference if you get pressured. Throw the ball at any time and it will be in the vicinity for the receiver, no matter the route or where he is in the route. If you are good at user catching, you prevent all but the most egregious errors from being an interception or even (gasp) a ball that hits the dirt. This is why 99 passing, to me, was so great.

The RBP button never appeared again on any Madden after 99, but there were routes in certain Madden games (2003 and 2007) that would mimic RBP, without the button. Mainly Go routes could be overthrown very easily and would also go over the heads of defenders very easily if you had even a step on the defender.

Madden passing became, and continues to become, more dumbed down and mindless ever since 99.

A similar type of RBP was subsequently found in the NFL2K franchise thereafter (cough, cough, coincidence, cough) but worked sans an actual RBP button. It didn't work as strictly route based as it did in Madden 99, though, and had a small bit of tethering. It was a much better mix then Tiburon has been able to come up with though and is nowhere near as blatant.

TLDR. Basically, like many other ideas, good and bad, Madden 99 introduced and touted and named a new feature, that happened to actually be quite great, and then it was removed after only one iteration, never to be seen again. At least not in an EA game.

[frankstallone83]

Re: Madden NFL 25 Demo Available Now, Post Your Impressions (360, PS3)

This is the other benefit of RBP. You actually had passes hit the ground without being touched by either Offense or Defense. What a novel idea right?

mind = blown.

Thanks for the explanation. I do remember playing some games that had rbp but I can't remember which ones; probably 2k on dreamcast and I remember nfl fever having a different passing mechanic...it's all a bit foggy...

[simsdog]

Re: Madden NFL 25 Demo Available Now, Post Your Impressions (360, PS3)

it is literally impossible to stop the run on all-madden, the ball is snapped and everyone of my defenders is pancaked for colin kapernick to run 90 yds. I'm giving up around 200 yrds a game. The defense is broken

[ckarlic]

Re: Madden NFL 25 Demo Available Now, Post Your Impressions (360, PS3)

why are the players actually touching the ground. its very noticeable after a play. as the players walk back to the huddle its like they are walking on air back to the huddle. when the get to the huddle its like they step down and they actually touch the grass. its also very noticeable on close ups.
I also noticed this in EA's basketball dribble video demo!!!

I don't know if this existed in previous Maddens but its very noticeable in Madden25.

I noticed this as well. Glad i wasnt the only one. Im on the PS3

[Gerg04]

Come on now... Let's not base things off of one particular occurrence that was more of an anomaly. Just because it happened once in real life, that doesn't mean it should happen consistently in the game. That's been a problem with Madden for a long time. Consistency is the key - realistic representation of the game the MAJORITY of the time.

Not for nothing Madden has never been a Sim football game. Whether it's 13 sacks or putting up 50+ on the scoreboard, we always have and always will see these types of results in Madden.

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk 4

[jpdavis82]

Re: Madden NFL 25 Demo Available Now, Post Your Impressions (360, PS3)

Not for nothing Madden has never been a Sim football game. Whether it's 13 sacks or putting up 50+ on the scoreboard, we always have and always will see these types of results in Madden.

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk 4

Until next gen anyway. Madden is heading the direction of sim, it's going to take another year maybe even two but people will see it. The problem right now is that the game hasn't been balanced out on the defensive side of the ball. We finally have realistic run blocking and on next gen M25, realistic pass blocking, but the defense is at a major disadvantage now. Once they address the pass rush and fully addressing WR/DB interactions(everything I've heard points to this and defense in general, being a big focus of Madden 15) we should start to see a much more sim style game.