Why does the player's overall rating change when I start my career?

[Rezzo503]

Re: Why does the player's overall rating change when I start my career?

I just thought of something.

Do the Play Now OVR calculate the Players Production Rating?

I know teams use this to determine OVR in CCM.

[lopey986]

Re: Why does the player's overall rating change when I start my career?

this could be that you're using the default CFM roster instead of importing the new roster you downloaded. that explains player position changes.

As far as overall changing in CFM...it's fantastic! it shows you who out there are OVR lovers. the attributes don't change and they play as they should on the field. people just have issues starting a WR with 87 SPD, RTE, CTH & CIT if his OVR is a 72. this kid Jared Abbrederis has been a godsend in my raiders franchise(ymmv). he's the only WR on the team that I can rely on!

that isn't my problem at all. my problem is that when you auto reorder your depth chart in the menus based on all the schemes you run and then you go into the game and guys are 10-20 worse/better overall than in the depth chart in the menus. i just want the overall to remain the same between in game and in menu.

the other problem is when you go to free agency in the offseason, the only attribute they show you is OVERALL and nothing else unless you go to each players "player card" which takes forever. thus, all the free agent signings you make are based off OVERALL yet once you start doing your depth chart you are supposed to look at other thing. nothing is cohesive in this game at all, it all clashes.

and also, OVERALL directly impacts the stats your players put up when you simulate. in a season with the bears where i changed the WR scheme to SPEED, devin hester became a 94 overall and topped 1000 yards and 10 tds. in another one when i left the scheme at possession he is a 77 who had 450 yards and 1 td when simulated. so overall is affecting the sim stats but we are not supposed to look at overall? as i said, the whole system clashes from one step to the next.

[StayPlation82]

Re: Why does the player's overall rating change when I start my career?

I wasn't talking to you directly, sorry buddy, I missed a quote.

but to respond to you...I think there needs to be cohesiveness. the in game depth is the way to find out what they truly are. but even then say you want a speed WR and your guy is a 77 in that scheme and an 87 in his true rating. you have to ask yourself is having a speed WR what you truly want?

as far as FAs guys, they are still rated based on your scheme so I don't really have a problem. I would like to see attributes more prominent or at least a better way to research them before hand. as far as simmed games i'm not really into it but I can see the pros an cons in their approach.

[Caliboy626]

Re: Why does the player's overall rating change when I start my career?

I've been having the same issue in CFM. I went to test with the Patriots. Rob Gronkowski is a 98 overall and he is a spread scheme with vertical threat. Had that scheme and role for him yet he is a 90 overall. Chandler Jones is 81 overall with hybrid defensive fronts and 3-4 versatile. Again the scheme and role matched what I was using yet his overall was a 71. I know people are saying the overall "doesn't matter", but it makes no sense to me how players can be this far off when you are playing in their ideal scheme and position role.

Chandler Jones a 3-4 end??? Im pretty sure he only weighs 265 pounds. Last time I checked there wasn't very many 3-4 teams looking for an end that small. Change him to a versatile 4-3 end and I think you would have better success.

[My_Oozing_Eye]

Re: Why does the player's overall rating change when I start my career?

Thanks for all of the input everyone... this has been very helpful!

I believe this is a summary of what we "know". Can someone confirm? Can anyone add clarity to some of the open questions?

1) When starting a CCM, be careful to choose the offensive and defensive systems you want. The coordinators default playbook will dictate the system used.

2) Changing your offensive of defensive system mid season will not make an impact on ratings.

3) Once a season is started, you will see OVR ratings in the lobby mode that are independent of your system.

4) Once a season is started, when IN GAME, you will see OVR ratings that are impacted by both the system you chose before the season started AND the hot cold impact of your players.

5) Since the IN GAME OVR ratings are a better indicator of the impact of your player, you should use those ratings to set your depth chart in the game lobby. (Where the numbers will be different... and possibly non sensical since they are not related to your scheme.)

6) Unknown - If a player has a low OVR in the lobby, but higher OVR in game (Due to the system you use) can you get them "cheaper" as their contract demands are driven by the OVR rating in the lobby?

7) Unknown - During Free agent bidding is the OVR rating adjusted for your scheme or is it independent of scheme?

8) unknown - is there a way to make existing coaches use different schemes (Example Dom Capers Def Packers is a 3-4 Aggressive coordinator. Can he every run a 4-3) and have the OVR ratings be driven by the scheme and not the coach?

9) Unknown - Does the playbook you choose over ride the system to create OVR ratings for your players in the lobby or IN GAME?

[My_Oozing_Eye]

Re: Why does the player's overall rating change when I start my career?

Bump... C'mon does can anyone clarify?

[SkatzFanOff]

Re: Why does the player's overall rating change when I start my career?

I actually decided to log into my account just to post the following:

The fact I have to sort through a 12 page thread to make sense of what has historically been the most basic ****ing stat in all of sports games since I was about, oh, 6, is stunning.

Honestly. The fact this thread even exists means that their ratings system is a colossal failure.

And when I was looking into scouting players to fit my scheme and saw a bunch of 60 overalls for 3-4 Run Stoppers (which is what I'm looking for) over the course of 5 drafts, then I got even more baffled.

[SkatzFanOff]

Re: Why does the player's overall rating change when I start my career?

One thing that might make the whole process more clear is this quote from the Madden 13 downloadable guide about the INTANGIBLE rating:

Calculated off of a player’s intangible ratings. Player type and position are also taken into consideration. For example, a QB’s intangible rating would be weighed heavier on short, medium, and deep accuracy while a defensive end is weighed on block shed- ding, power, and finesse moves

[NightOwl]

Re: Why does the player's overall rating change when I start my career?

I always assumed this happened so there was room to use the progress players feature. Idk if that is the reason or not but it's the only logical answer I could ever give myself. If all the players went in with their high ratings, the overalls would be crazy high after progressions. I personally think it is all completely terrible. What happened to being able to just play a simple season mode where I could play the teams schedule that year as it was intended to be played with the correct players and numbers on each team

[12]

Re: Why does the player's overall rating change when I start my career?

I wish EA would just drop the OVR rating altogether to stop the incessant whining from people who do not understand what scheme fits are.

Schemes only affect the useless OVR rating - it affects nothing else.

[12]

Re: Why does the player's overall rating change when I start my career?

Keep in mind my reply was for the people complaining about the OVR rating. Lot of good discussion going on in the last two or three pages here.

[SkatzFanOff]

Re: Why does the player's overall rating change when I start my career?

If the game still weighs the overall into depth chart re-ordering, free agency, etc, then that "useless" number is clearly skewing things, and thus the system has failed. To me, it's that simple. I don't recall browsing this forum over the last decade to make sense of the simplest number in sports gaming.

[azj222]

Re: Why does the player's overall rating change when I start my career?

Thanks for all of the input everyone... this has been very helpful!

I believe this is a summary of what we "know". Can someone confirm? Can anyone add clarity to some of the open questions?

1) When starting a CCM, be careful to choose the offensive and defensive systems you want. The coordinators default playbook will dictate the system used.

2) Changing your offensive of defensive system mid season will not make an impact on ratings.

3) Once a season is started, you will see OVR ratings in the lobby mode that are independent of your system.

4) Once a season is started, when IN GAME, you will see OVR ratings that are impacted by both the system you chose before the season started AND the hot cold impact of your players.

5) Since the IN GAME OVR ratings are a better indicator of the impact of your player, you should use those ratings to set your depth chart in the game lobby. (Where the numbers will be different... and possibly non sensical since they are not related to your scheme.)

6) Unknown - If a player has a low OVR in the lobby, but higher OVR in game (Due to the system you use) can you get them "cheaper" as their contract demands are driven by the OVR rating in the lobby?

7) Unknown - During Free agent bidding is the OVR rating adjusted for your scheme or is it independent of scheme?

8) unknown - is there a way to make existing coaches use different schemes (Example Dom Capers Def Packers is a 3-4 Aggressive coordinator. Can he every run a 4-3) and have the OVR ratings be driven by the scheme and not the coach?

9) Unknown - Does the playbook you choose over ride the system to create OVR ratings for your players in the lobby or IN GAME?

Below my view from lots of reading and testing

1) Schemes (base schemes and position preferences) are tied to coaches, they can to a certain extent be changed by a user playing as a coach

2) Changing schemes has an impact on ratings also midseason - BUT you have to be playing as a coach to make the changes

3) / 4) / 5) Wrong - the IN GAME ratings are not related to scheme (i.e. they reflect what you see in the play now or general roster/depth chart section) but can be impacted by hot/cold streaks (and XP progression obviously as well). If your schemes are properly set up and reflect the way you would like to play the depth chart in the lobby is a good starting point to make depth chart decisions

6) Based on limited testing, I don't think a that you can "cheat" a player into taking a lesser contract based on bad scheme fit induced low overall ... bad scheme fit may moreover make it less likely that he resigns

7) The overall you see during FA bidding reflects your scheme, however contract demands will be driven more by base overalls and competition for the player

8) Absolutely and as described above under 1) you can change schemes and position preferences if you play as a coach (i.e. NOT owner mode) - the only limitation unfortunately will be that the listed positions stay the same, i.e. even if you change from a 3-4 to a 4-3 it will still list 1 DT and 2 MLB rather than 2 DT and 1 MLB (and vice versa) ... you would also have to deal with the fact that your players would have a 'weak' scheme fit at the outset as Madden aligns players scheme preferences with the hard coded coaches chemes to the largest extent (although this should not impact overalls, just resignings etc.)

9) I haven't seen any indication that the listed playbook has any effect on overalls (it may have on simulations and obviously played games) - but haven't tested this either

To illustrate the above using the Kyle Williams example debated in the earlier parts of this thread, he will show as a 67 or sth in the lobby depth chart when you load CCM that is because Madden set the default DT position preference to Nose Tackle where he is a bad size fit in Madden terms hence the low overall (also unfotunately the position preferences listed for BUF are those that match a 3-4 although the Doug Marrone base scheme is a 4-3 but I assume this was an oversight - this also leads to BUF showing a very low overall when you initially set-up your CCM / import rosters). If you change the position preference to Run Stopper for instance Kyle Williams overall will increase to 91 or sth similar as this better fits his skill set again in Madden terms. IN GAME he will always have the same ratings in any case and those refelecting a 90ish overall on the original non scheme specific base scale ....

Hope this helps somewhat shed more light into the topic which is hard as in this version there are so many moving variables ...

[RyanLeaf16]

Re: Why does the player's overall rating change when I start my career?

Below my view from lots of reading and testing

1) Schemes (base schemes and position preferences) are tied to coaches, they can to a certain extent be changed by a user playing as a coach

2) Changing schemes has an impact on ratings also midseason - BUT you have to be playing as a coach to make the changes

3) / 4) / 5) Wrong - the IN GAME ratings are not related to scheme (i.e. they reflect what you see in the play now or general roster/depth chart section) but can be impacted by hot/cold streaks (and XP progression obviously as well). If your schemes are properly set up and reflect the way you would like to play the depth chart in the lobby is a good starting point to make depth chart decisions

6) Based on limited testing, I don't think a that you can "cheat" a player into taking a lesser contract based on bad scheme fit induced low overall ... bad scheme fit may moreover make it less likely that he resigns

7) The overall you see during FA bidding reflects your scheme, however contract demands will be driven more by base overalls and competition for the player

8) Absolutely and as described above under 1) you can change schemes and position preferences if you play as a coach (i.e. NOT owner mode) - the only limitation unfortunately will be that the listed positions stay the same, i.e. even if you change from a 3-4 to a 4-3 it will still list 1 DT and 2 MLB rather than 2 DT and 1 MLB (and vice versa) ... you would also have to deal with the fact that your players would have a 'weak' scheme fit at the outset as Madden aligns players scheme preferences with the hard coded coaches chemes to the largest extent (although this should not impact overalls, just resignings etc.)

9) I haven't seen any indication that the listed playbook has any effect on overalls (it may have on simulations and obviously played games) - but haven't tested this either

To illustrate the above using the Kyle Williams example debated in the earlier parts of this thread, he will show as a 67 or sth in the lobby depth chart when you load CCM that is because Madden set the default DT position preference to Nose Tackle where he is a bad size fit in Madden terms hence the low overall (also unfotunately the position preferences listed for BUF are those that match a 3-4 although the Doug Marrone base scheme is a 4-3 but I assume this was an oversight - this also leads to BUF showing a very low overall when you initially set-up your CCM / import rosters). If you change the position preference to Run Stopper for instance Kyle Williams overall will increase to 91 or sth similar as this better fits his skill set again in Madden terms. IN GAME he will always have the same ratings in any case and those refelecting a 90ish overall on the original non scheme specific base scale ....

Hope this helps somewhat shed more light into the topic which is hard as in this version there are so many moving variables ...

^^^^^QFT^^^^^

I get why people are upset by this issue. I am too, but, quite honestly. The above post is absolutely correct. The OVR does not matter. It is an aesthetic thing that we all look to because we've been conditioned to look for it. The OVR is low, but, it doesn't matter because it doesn't effect the players on-field performance. His OVR will always be low if he doesn't fit your scheme, but, his production will be high if you put him in the right position and look for the right attributes for each position.

In my Cowboys owner CFM, I have Jay Ratliff out for an extended period of time. So I am looking for a 3rd DT that can play the Nose, while Hatcher plays the UT in Ratliff's absence. I come across a guy on the trade block from Cleveland - Ishmaa'ily Kitchen. Cleveland runs a 3-4, his OVR rating that I can see is 52. Doesn't matter, I looked at this guy's numbers. His STR, BSH, PWR are all fantastic for a backup and his PRC is not bad for a backup. I don't care about his OVR, because they are simply basing it off of my scheme versus the scheme he is in. That doesn't matter, he will still play at a higher level than a 52.

The Madden community has to re-wire itself, so to speak, about OVR ratings and what they mean. It plays too large of a role in franchise and people are relying on it too much.

Just don't look at OVR and start looking at specific ratings and you'll be fine.

[pedro_s]

Re: Why does the player's overall rating change when I start my career?

Just got my game yesterday, and downloaded the rosters, went to play connected franchise (offline).

Then got crazy because I chose the Patriots and Rob Ninkovich was a 70 OVR. Chandler Jones was about 71.

Even if I select the Patriots coach he is still bad. That makes no sense whatsoever.
Also, Vince Wilfork is a 90+ but Tommy Kelly is like 67.

If I go to schemes and change the LE and RE to speed rusher, then Ninkovich is a 83 and Chandler Jones goes to 81.

But it should not be necessary to do that...I'm playing with the Patriots coach and default schemes!

I believe EA has this stuff wrong...even though the idea is good, it's not properly done.

Just don't look at OVR and start looking at specific ratings and you'll be fine.

Then why put it visible for us in the game?