2K Partners with NFLPA to Allow NFL Players in Multiple Football Games

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  • canes21
    Hall Of Fame
    • Sep 2008
    • 22930

    #166
    Re: 2K Partners with NFLPA to Allow NFL Players in Multiple Football Games

    Originally posted by ksuttonjr76
    No, they don't.



    And that's against zero competition, but "against" NFL 2K5. Real talk, Take-Two is no NBA Live level of competition against EA.
    That does not include digital sales which is now how the majority of people buy games. Over three quarters of game sales are digital now. Unless I am mistaken, the majority of Madden's sales are also digital copies. If Madden is moving 4.5 to 6 million physical copies per year, but sells more digital copies annually, then they are selling over 10 million copies per year.
    “No one is more hated than he who speaks the truth.”


    ― Plato

    Comment

    • Kanobi
      H*F Cl*ss *f '09
      • Apr 2003
      • 6054

      #167
      Re: 2K Partners with NFLPA to Allow NFL Players in Multiple Football Games

      Originally posted by canes21
      I did find this quote from the press release interesting.

      “We’re thrilled to be working with the NFLPA and OneTeam to bring the biggest and best stars in football to the games we’re working on,” said David Ismailer, President of 2K. “We want to give fans experiences that are authentic, memorable and fun, and having a roster of real-life sports heroes through the Players Association and OneTeam is a huge part of delivering on that promise.”

      The use of the word authentic is what caught my eye. It is how they described APF. Authentic also usually implies gameplay that is grounded and not arcade.

      That said, the word choice could also have little insight to what 2k actually plans on doing, but that quote did stick out to me.
      We shall see. Personally, I don't know what to expect. However, I am excited by the possibility of Visual Concepts making another football game.

      Comment

      • canes21
        Hall Of Fame
        • Sep 2008
        • 22930

        #168
        Re: 2K Partners with NFLPA to Allow NFL Players in Multiple Football Games

        Originally posted by Kanobi
        We shall see. Personally, I don't know what to expect. However, I am excited by the possibility of Visual Concepts making another football game.
        I'm very excited, but at the same time I want to temper my expectations because of the unknowns that surround non-simulation. Whatever we get, I pray it leads to NFL 2k's revival and we get back to Madden and 2k both having non-exclusive licenses. That would be the best outcome for gamers.
        Last edited by canes21; 08-03-2020, 09:49 AM.
        “No one is more hated than he who speaks the truth.”


        ― Plato

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        • ksuttonjr76
          All Star
          • Nov 2004
          • 8662

          #169
          Re: 2K Partners with NFLPA to Allow NFL Players in Multiple Football Games

          Originally posted by canes21
          That does not include digital sales which is now how the majority of people buy games. Over three quarters of game sales are digital now. Unless I am mistaken, the majority of Madden's sales are also digital copies. If Madden is moving 4.5 to 6 million physical copies per year, but sells more digital copies annually, then they are selling over 10 million copies per year.
          Madden is not selling like that for them to feel "safe" against real competition especially against Take Two. They're still chasing the ghost of NFL 2K5.

          Comment

          • ksuttonjr76
            All Star
            • Nov 2004
            • 8662

            #170
            Re: 2K Partners with NFLPA to Allow NFL Players in Multiple Football Games

            Originally posted by mercalnd
            There is more to business than what you can and can't legally do.



            2K has been wanting to get back in business with the NFL ever since 2004. Now that they have a new deal with them, it would make no sense to piss the NFL off by doing something the NFL does not approve of, regardless of whether it is legal or not.



            Whenever 2K's new NFL deal runs out, the NFL is under no obligation whatsoever to continue their business relationship with 2K.



            So while it is possible that 2K can legally be allowed to do what you are suggesting, there is no way 2K does anything to ruffle the feathers of such a major business partner that they have regained after a decade and a half of trying.
            And if Take-Two can outdo EA, the NFL is under no obligation to renew their agreement with EA. As greedy as Take-Two is, people are acting like they're just "testing" the football market.

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            • canes21
              Hall Of Fame
              • Sep 2008
              • 22930

              #171
              Re: 2K Partners with NFLPA to Allow NFL Players in Multiple Football Games

              Originally posted by ksuttonjr76
              Madden is not selling like that for them to feel "safe" against real competition especially against Take Two. They're still chasing the ghost of NFL 2K5.
              Madden is literally the 2nd or 3rd best selling game annually. I don't know where you get the idea that Madden isn't selling well. The game is selling plenty well enough and the money MUT makes is the cherry on top. EA wouldn't pay $1.5 billion to keep an NFL license for a game that's not selling well. Whether you like Madden or not, it sells plenty.
              “No one is more hated than he who speaks the truth.”


              ― Plato

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              • mercalnd
                MVP
                • Oct 2004
                • 4262

                #172
                Re: 2K Partners with NFLPA to Allow NFL Players in Multiple Football Games

                Originally posted by ksuttonjr76
                And if Take-Two can outdo EA, the NFL is under no obligation to renew their agreement with EA. As greedy as Take-Two is, people are acting like they're just "testing" the football market.
                Sure. My point is just that 2K will not try something like that unless the NFL is ok with it regardless of the fact that the NFL can't legally prevent them from doing it.

                Comment

                • kjcheezhead
                  MVP
                  • May 2009
                  • 3118

                  #173
                  Re: 2K Partners with NFLPA to Allow NFL Players in Multiple Football Games

                  Since this is all speculation anyways I thought this was interesting. A few questions that I thought about when I heard this.

                  Dwayne Johnson just bought the XFL. Wasn’t 2k in talks about making a game for them? Would they be able to use NFLPA players in an XFL game? Would using the XFL league and rules help protect them against lawsuits from EA that they are making an NFL sim?


                  Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

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                  • Rocky
                    All Star
                    • Jul 2002
                    • 6896

                    #174
                    Re: 2K Partners with NFLPA to Allow NFL Players in Multiple Football Games

                    It seems like there are four possibilities on what the new 2K games could be:

                    1. A simulation style game with NFL players akin to what we had with the old Joe Montana football games to where it was SF in gold and red vs. MIN in yellow and purple. That would be what we all would most certainly want short of a fully licensed NFL game. It's also the most unlikely imo. So much has changed since then and there is no way that the NFL would be happy with TT putting a game like that out. If TT and the NFL did NOT have a deal already in place then there's a small possibility. But with the language in the TT/NFL deal, I just can't see that at all.

                    My verdict: Not happening at all.

                    2. Some form of Neighborhood/MUT game that's similar to APF. To me, this is a much better possibilty than #1. NBA2K's MyCareer mode may be the most popular game mode in all sports gaming and the NFL and NFLPA may want to capitalize on that. MyCareer mode is essentially seperate from the NBA aside from the actual playing of season games. I could see a NFL Park, Rec, Pro-Am type of thing happening. Plus there's more than enough room for 2K to compete with MUT if they want to compete with Madden in the card based route. The key here is the word "simulation" however. Is that word defined as "11 vs. 11"? Ironically, I believe MUT is played on in what EA themselves describe as "Arcade" mode.

                    My verdict: Somewhat likely. It would definitely make the NFLPA license worth it but it all comes down to the word simulation.

                    3. A card, mobile based game like WWE Supercard. I think this is a strong possibility although it's certainly not worth TT acquiring the NFLPA license for. I don't have much to say here because if you played Supercard you'd realize it's not much even for a mobile game.

                    My verdict: Very likely but definitely not a 2K's lone offering.

                    4. A playgrounds-like Arcade game. Similar to Blitz, NFL Street, etc. There's a still a market out there for these games and this sounds exactly like what's described in the press release. I think this a near certainty but the big question is if this game would justify being the "flagship" game under the NFL2K umbrella.

                    My verdict: A near certainty. Definitely happening but like #3 some question is if this is going to be THE game.
                    "Maybe I can't win. But to beat me, he's going to have to kill me. And to kill me, he's gonna have to have the heart to stand in front of me. And to do that, he's got to be willing to die himself. I don't know if he's ready to do that."
                    -Rocky Balboa

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                    • ksuttonjr76
                      All Star
                      • Nov 2004
                      • 8662

                      #175
                      Re: 2K Partners with NFLPA to Allow NFL Players in Multiple Football Games

                      Seems like a waste of new agreements and money if all they want to develop are card and playground games....
                      Last edited by ksuttonjr76; 08-03-2020, 12:01 PM.

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                      • canes21
                        Hall Of Fame
                        • Sep 2008
                        • 22930

                        #176
                        Re: 2K Partners with NFLPA to Allow NFL Players in Multiple Football Games

                        Someone needs to contact the NFL rep and ask about potentially acquiring a non-simulation license and get the details about what non-simulation means.

                        I'm sure it's that simple.
                        “No one is more hated than he who speaks the truth.”


                        ― Plato

                        Comment

                        • Hooe
                          Hall Of Fame
                          • Aug 2002
                          • 21554

                          #177
                          Re: 2K Partners with NFLPA to Allow NFL Players in Multiple Football Games

                          Originally posted by kjcheezhead
                          Would they be able to use NFLPA players in an XFL game?
                          I have to imagine the NFL would reject this on some grounds, and I also have to imagine the NFLPA has some fiduciary interest in not actively harming the NFL with its own business dealings. Signing on to appear in a game involving a rival football league would actively and materially harm the NFL.

                          I also doubt the XFL would be okay with their league being represented by players who aren't on their fields for their games.
                          Would using the XFL league and rules help protect them against lawsuits from EA that they are making an NFL sim?
                          Again, we don't really know what that "simulation" bar is, but I speculate that elements such as a photo-realistic art style (which is what all AAA sports games currently chase and is arguably the most important thing for casual consumers), depth of gameplay mechanics (in a football game's case, even something such as a playbook more complex than what the original NFL Blitz offers might push it over the "simulation" line), and offered gameplay modes (specifically Franchise mode) are going to be the arbiters of "simulation".

                          I don't think the specific football rules used to govern the football gameplay ultimately matter nearly as much as those other three things.

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                          • kjcheezhead
                            MVP
                            • May 2009
                            • 3118

                            #178
                            Re: 2K Partners with NFLPA to Allow NFL Players in Multiple Football Games

                            Originally posted by CM Hooe
                            I have to imagine the NFL would reject this on some grounds, and I also have to imagine the NFLPA has some fiduciary interest in not actively harming the NFL with its own business dealings. Signing on to appear in a game involving a rival football league would actively and materially harm the NFL.

                            I also doubt the XFL would be okay with their league being represented by players who aren't on their fields for their games.

                            Again, we don't really know what that "simulation" bar is, but I speculate that elements such as a photo-realistic art style (which is what all AAA sports games currently chase and is arguably the most important thing for casual consumers), depth of gameplay mechanics (in a football game's case, even something such as a playbook more complex than what the original NFL Blitz offers might push it over the "simulation" line), and offered gameplay modes (specifically Franchise mode) are going to be the arbiters of "simulation".

                            I don't think the specific football rules used to govern the football gameplay ultimately matter nearly as much as those other three things.


                            I agree with you about the NFL not wanting their players in an XFL game. Maybe they were going to use XFL for a playgrounds type game first. That league sold its product on the field as something better suited for arcade games anyways.

                            I think anything that would get XFL attention and helping establish it would be ok with them. Using the original players and having NFL players you can collect like a MUT mode would be cool with the XFL I bet, more the NFL that would have the problem.

                            The last part is that 2k can make a simulation, but it can’t be NFL. If you go old school like SF in red or Wisconsin in green and gold, you’re risking a lawsuit these days. You can’t even have fake players with all of the actual players stats without possible litigation. Hall of fame players cried foul when madden did it in historic teams. An actual league like XFL might avoid that problem tho


                            Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

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                            • Blzer
                              Resident film pundit
                              • Mar 2004
                              • 42520

                              #179
                              Re: 2K Partners with NFLPA to Allow NFL Players in Multiple Football Games

                              Originally posted by ksuttonjr76
                              I read it and it made zero sense. Point blank, EA's deal gives them exclusive rights to make 11v11 games with NFL themed environments. That deal runs through May 2026. Take-Two's NFL deal allows them make NFL games that is NOT 11v11 gameplay, hence "non-simulation". Take-Two's deal with the NFLPA allows them to use the current players however they see fit. The NFL deal allows them to make this stupid card game and NFL Playground that everyone keeps talking about. The NFLPA deal opens the door for 11v11 gameplay without the NFL themes. Unless I'm misunderstanding something, these are two separate deals.

                              It's really simple to what they can or can't do. In fact, if the 11v11 game outsells Madden, it opens the door for a possible future NFL/Take-Two deal.

                              EDIT: Look at the soccer videogames. There's the FIFA sponsored game (EA has the exclusive rights) then there's the "other" game in PES. There's literally a real-world example of what Take-Two can legally do.
                              I understand all of this, but you know what else PES isn't doing? They're not trying to build a strong relationship with FIFA and keep something going either for smaller chump change or trying to gain exclusivity in the future with them, and that much is clear.

                              2K Sports, on the other hand, would very much like to do this with the NFL one day. This point is more important now on my end than it ever was, now that I know that they mangled their relationship with the NFL back when they released 2K5 early and cheaper. The NFL wasn't happy about this, and it has cost 2K ever so dearly for at least fifteen years.

                              What 2K needs is a good relationship with the NFL, and if they end up releasing a sim game with real player names where you can customize it enough to simulate the real NFL experience (teams, logos, stadiums, league format and rules, contracts, franchise, etc.), the NFL is going to feel like a gypped party in that 2K is doing a workaround of their own deal with them.

                              Sure, it can last for the next five years or whatever their contract is for, but what about the next contract? What about the possibility of an exclusive license after that? Clearly the NFL won't be swayed simply by "2K making a good game," or even "2K selling a lot of their product." Money seems to be the top priority, alongside a trusting partnership. EA has seemed to provide both of these for them, and they have shared that bed with the NFL since.

                              That's what my lemonade analogy is for. It's not regarding their game in 2022... it's regarding their games in 2026, and onward. However, if their game simply lets them customize it as little as APF did, then you're right this isn't an issue. It also probably won't sell very well though, either.
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                              • ksuttonjr76
                                All Star
                                • Nov 2004
                                • 8662

                                #180
                                Re: 2K Partners with NFLPA to Allow NFL Players in Multiple Football Games

                                Originally posted by Blzer
                                I understand all of this, but you know what else PES isn't doing? They're not trying to build a strong relationship with FIFA and keep something going either for smaller chump change or trying to gain exclusivity in the future with them, and that much is clear.

                                2K Sports, on the other hand, would very much like to do this with the NFL one day. This point is more important now on my end than it ever was, now that I know that they mangled their relationship with the NFL back when they released 2K5 early and cheaper. The NFL wasn't happy about this, and it has cost 2K ever so dearly for at least fifteen years.

                                What 2K needs is a good relationship with the NFL, and if they end up releasing a sim game with real player names where you can customize it enough to simulate the real NFL experience (teams, logos, stadiums, league format and rules, contracts, franchise, etc.), the NFL is going to feel like a gypped party in that 2K is doing a workaround of their own deal with them.

                                Sure, it can last for the next five years or whatever their contract is for, but what about the next contract? What about the possibility of an exclusive license after that? Clearly the NFL won't be swayed simply by "2K making a good game," or even "2K selling a lot of their product." Money seems to be the top priority, alongside a trusting partnership. EA has seemed to provide both of these for them, and they have shared that bed with the NFL since.

                                That's what my lemonade analogy is for. It's not regarding their game in 2022... it's regarding their games in 2026, and onward. However, if their game simply lets them customize it as little as APF did, then you're right this isn't an issue. It also probably won't sell very well though, either.
                                Then that's a STUPID deal...they paid for specific agreements with the NFL and NFLPA to make card and playground games in HOPES to get the NFL deal in 2026? That's what you telling me? Hell, it's more of a stupid deal, because I think Take-Two always had the rights to make non-sim videogames since the original NFL/EA deal.
                                Last edited by ksuttonjr76; 08-03-2020, 12:10 PM.

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