2K Partners with NFLPA to Allow NFL Players in Multiple Football Games

[PVarck31]

Re: 2K Partners with NFLPA to Allow NFL Players in Multiple Football Games

I just don't see anything like APF with just the players. 2K didn't pay for the NFL license to make non-NFL games. I guess you could make the argument they could make multiple games at the same time, but that's not easy.

I think we are looking too deep into this. When they got the NFL license back, they always intended to secure the NFLPA license. It was just a matter of time. A NFL game without real players wouldn't sell well, and neither will a game with the NFL teams and logos and all that stuff, won't sell well without the players. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think that would be the case. I know a lot of people here would disagree with that, and there is a large community of people who hate Madden, but it's not bigger than the average person who buys Madden every year just because it's the new Madden. You might pull some of their fan base away, but not enough to compete with millions of copies sold every year.

This was always gonna happen, and there is no ulterior motives here. I'm sure simulation is clearly defined between the NFL and 2K. And they will follow that line. Even though they may technically be able to make a sim with just the NFL players, I don't believe it would happen because they don't want the NFL breathing down their necks.

They screwed up with the NFL in 2004 and it cost them to essentially lose the license, I know there was more to it than that, but it played a large role. Now, 16 years later, they finally get the license back, they aren't gonna do anything that could remotely piss off the NFL.

[Blzer]

Re: 2K Partners with NFLPA to Allow NFL Players in Multiple Football Games

Why is everyone assuming that the NFL will care? They're getting paid. As long as Take Two doesn't "screw it up", the NFL will not be that involved.

Because they'd argue that making a game like that should cost them more money than they're charging 2K right now.

Let's say that I am the world's supplier of lemons and some company wants to buy imports of my supply to sell off, but I state that unless they pay a hefty fee, the only way they can do it is they make it into lemonade and sell it that way (because of my exclusivity deal with another company). So they agree to the deal and sell lemonade, but they also sell lemon seeds on the side so that customers can instead grow their own lemons.

Now they're doubly profiting off my supply without paying for the back-end of what I allowed them to do, and my other company that I have an exclusive lemons deal with is losing sales as well. This is all despite the fact they never actually did sell lemons to people. I'm not being granted the money I should be as a result, and this exploit is a damper on my business and value that I have defined for myself.

Or let's put it the other way: if 2K got what EA has and vice-versa, how would you feel if EA came back with "Madden Football 22" with this kind of concept, stealing sales away from 2K who paid a fortune to have a strikingly similar product? The NFL would also be none too happy about the idea that they could have made another billion dollars as well if EA played ball the right way.

[Blzer]

Re: 2K Partners with NFLPA to Allow NFL Players in Multiple Football Games

They screwed up with the NFL in 2004 and it cost them to essentially lose the license, I know there was more to it than that, but it played a large role. Now, 16 years later, they finally get the license back, they aren't gonna do anything that could remotely piss off the NFL.

Hmm, I've never heard this before. How so? Was it the $20 price tag?

[robrien13]

I was actually hoping that they didn't make an agreement with the NFLPA, and instead created fictional players with big personalities. This way, they could show the NFL that they could create a better game than Madden, and maybe, they could get the license next time. Now, it is hard to believe they can do anything but create a non 11 vs 11 game, with mostly non-simulated and unrealistic play. Which is more like Madden than Electronic Arts will admit to. 

[Blzer]

Re: 2K Partners with NFLPA to Allow NFL Players in Multiple Football Games

I was actually hoping that they didn't make an agreement with the NFLPA, and instead created fictional players with big personalities. This way, they could show the NFL that they could create a better game than Madden, and maybe, they could get the license next time. Now, it is hard to believe they can do anything but create a non 11 vs 11 game, with mostly non-simulated and unrealistic play. Which is more like Madden than Electronic Arts will admit to.*

I was hoping for the XFL, but then the stupid pandemic happened. I would've happily had that and played that over an EA NFL game, myself.

On that note, I'm trying to play APF 2K8 with NFL rosters, but when it's just their names and attributes without being called the right people or having accurate faces and such, it just doesn't work the way I'd like it to. Plus, I despise APF's presentation.

That's partially why I asked about the ESPN license. As much as I don't care about ESPN these days, I'm not a fan of 2K Sports' branding for a presentation package. It might just have to do with the color red, I'm not sure. When they were SEGA Sports, it looked absolutely legit.

[illwill10]

Re: 2K Partners with NFLPA to Allow NFL Players in Multiple Football Games

I was hoping for the XFL, but then the stupid pandemic happened. I would've happily had that and played that over an EA NFL game, myself.

On that note, I'm trying to play APF 2K8 with NFL rosters, but when it's just their names and attributes without being called the right people or having accurate faces and such, it just doesn't work the way I'd like it to. Plus, I despise APF's presentation.

That's partially why I asked about the ESPN license. As much as I don't care about ESPN these days, I'm not a fan of 2K Sports' branding for a presentation package. It might just have to do with the color red, I'm not sure. When they were SEGA Sports, it looked absolutely legit.

Main reaaon I wanted XFL to succeed was because of the rumors about a video game.

I liked how EA implemented ESPN in the college games. NCAA Basketball 10 was one of my favorite broadcast packages with the ESPN and CBS packages. Those packages felt unique. I don't know why more sports games don't have broadcast packages

[PVarck31]

Re: 2K Partners with NFLPA to Allow NFL Players in Multiple Football Games

Hmm, I've never heard this before. How so? Was it the $20 price tag?

That was the biggest part of it. Also they released the game in late July to get out ahead of Madden. EA was forced to cut their price of the game from the normal, at the time, price of $49.99 to $39.99. It was a huge cluster you know what. It cause a chain reaction all the way up to the suits at the NFL. I imagine after this the NFL said it would just be easier to do an exclusive license for more money than they were being paid by 2K and EA combined. And even if 2K could have competed with EA's offer, I bet the NFL would have preferred EA after all the crap that happened that year.

[J_Posse]

Re: 2K Partners with NFLPA to Allow NFL Players in Multiple Football Games

I just don't see anything like APF with just the players. 2K didn't pay for the NFL license to make non-NFL games. I guess you could make the argument they could make multiple games at the same time, but that's not easy.

I think we are looking too deep into this. When they got the NFL license back, they always intended to secure the NFLPA license. It was just a matter of time. A NFL game without real players wouldn't sell well, and neither will a game with the NFL teams and logos and all that stuff, won't sell well without the players. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think that would be the case. I know a lot of people here would disagree with that, and there is a large community of people who hate Madden, but it's not bigger than the average person who buys Madden every year just because it's the new Madden. You might pull some of their fan base away, but not enough to compete with millions of copies sold every year.

This was always gonna happen, and there is no ulterior motives here. I'm sure simulation is clearly defined between the NFL and 2K. And they will follow that line. Even though they may technically be able to make a sim with just the NFL players, I don't believe it would happen because they don't want the NFL breathing down their necks.

They screwed up with the NFL in 2004 and it cost them to essentially lose the license, I know there was more to it than that, but it played a large role. Now, 16 years later, they finally get the license back, they aren't gonna do anything that could remotely piss off the NFL.

No, Sega "screwed up" not Take - Two or 2K Sports. They tried to gain more marketshare from EA, but that move also (in the eyes of the NFL) "devalued" their brand, also EA had been coveting an exclusive license at least going back a year prior.

Anyway, I'm sure that Take - Two & 2K Sports want to maintain a good (or great) working relationship with the NFL. I'm sure they also want, maybe at some point, to gain the "simulation" license & currently they have nothing concrete to show that is viable or feasible (from a logistical standpoint).

An All-Pro title - if they even to go forward with a sequel - would be an example that they can make such a title. Again, that doesn't mean they'll actually decide to do that yet it is possible (yet very slim).

Official HQ of Bills Backer/Spurs Nation

[PVarck31]

Re: 2K Partners with NFLPA to Allow NFL Players in Multiple Football Games

Yes. I forgot it was Sega that published the game along with 2K sports at the time. So pick one or both, doesn't really matter. And I'm sure EA wanted the exclusive license for years. But what I said was basically what you said about devaluing the product. They pissed off the NFL. And you don't piss off the NFL.

[Blzer]

Re: 2K Partners with NFLPA to Allow NFL Players in Multiple Football Games

Yes. I forgot it was Sega that published the game along with 2K sports at the time. And I'm sure EA wanted the exclusive license for years. But what I said was basically what you said about devaluing the product. They pissed off the NFL. And you don't piss off the NFL.

Wow, yeah I had no idea this was a thing.

Then I double-down on my point about why they don't want to backdoor some simulation loophole against the NFL's wishes.

[illwill10]

Re: 2K Partners with NFLPA to Allow NFL Players in Multiple Football Games

Yes. I forgot it was Sega that published the game along with 2K sports at the time. So pick one or both, doesn't really matter. And I'm sure EA wanted the exclusive license for years. But what I said was basically what you said about devaluing the product. They pissed off the NFL. And you don't piss off the NFL.

Yeah wasn't there reports that Take-two/Sega offered more money for the original exclusive license. Sega/2k pissed off NFL that more money didn't matter. They went with the safer and more revelant EA brand

[J_Posse]

Re: 2K Partners with NFLPA to Allow NFL Players in Multiple Football Games

Yes. I forgot it was Sega that published the game along with 2K sports at the time. So pick one or both, doesn't really matter. And I'm sure EA wanted the exclusive license for years. But what I said was basically what you said about devaluing the product. They pissed off the NFL. And you don't piss off the NFL.

Sega was the publisher & Visual Concepts was the developer. I believe 2K Sports (the subsidiary) didn't come to be until the acquisition by Take - Two Interactive of the 2K Sports brand from Sega. Sega unknowingly shot themselves in the foot but they were desperate to make an impact in the market.

But, "they" (meaning Sega) are no longer involved in the brand or licensing agreement.

Greg & Jeff Thomas are still the heads of 2K Sports, but I'm almost sure the aggressive pricing was made by individuals above them (at Sega). Clearly, someone in the NFL head office sees what 2K has done since leaving Sega, mostly with the NBA license, & wants to try to gain more marketshare.

And I'm almost sure Take - Two & 2K Sports see this "non-simulation" license as a chance to "re-establish" themselves with the NFL.

Official HQ of Bills Backer/Spurs Nation

[zello144]

Re: 2K Partners with NFLPA to Allow NFL Players in Multiple Football Games

Take Two got lucky that VC and Sega decided to call their sports games 2k lol.

[Blzer]

Re: 2K Partners with NFLPA to Allow NFL Players in Multiple Football Games

Take Two got lucky that VC and Sega decided to call their sports games 2k lol.

And why would that be? You mean because it's universal recognition across every sport, and NBA 2K's success will lend toward 2K football success?

[kehlis]

Re: 2K Partners with NFLPA to Allow NFL Players in Multiple Football Games

Why is everyone assuming that the NFL will care? They're getting paid. As long as Take Two doesn't "screw it up", the NFL will not be that involved.

At this point it's very irrelevant how much involvement the NFL has.

What's being lost is that there is now a contract EA has that says they are the only publisher allowed to make a simulation NFL game.

Wouldn't take much for EA to send 2k a cease and desist related to any sort of game they think could compete with them. Good luck to 2k for getting over any sort of legal dispute over the semantics of what the word "simulation" means.

NOT to mention that now that 2k has an agreement with the NFL there is no way they would do anything to ruffle their feathers. You may say the NFL doesn't care (and maybe that's true once they get their money) but you better believe no one has any interest in being involved in unnecessary litigation.