Why All-Pro Football Still Trumps Madden

[Super Glock]

Re: Why All-Pro Football Still Trumps Madden

Sorry I really enjoy the write ups on OS most of the time but this is just plain silly to compare All Pro 2K8 to Madden 10. I understand not everyone is an EA fan but give me a break.

[Segagendude]

Re: Why All-Pro Football Still Trumps Madden

Really a senseless and pointless comparison. I don't care how great All-Pro plays. Playing with fake teams is no fun. The reason most people play sports games is to simulate real life teams and leagues. Madden was garbage on next-gen until this year but I'll take a garbage game that's fully licensed over a fantastic game without the NFL license.

Exactly my thoughts. When APF hit, I was tempted. But after reading about generic teams, I passed. That, and no franchise mode. So what-------I play one season, and.....and.......game over???? Fun stuff.........eh, no.

What I'd like 2k to consider is perhaps a non NFL licensed game for pc, open to the modding community to mod NFL stadiums, teams, players, etc. similar to what Football Freaks is doing with Madden 08. As long as no profits are made, there should be no harm in that...

[Joeyland]

As u can see from Skyliners video some NFL team can be well represented in APF, with uni codes and custom player creation, its not the NFL, but its not bad. I've seen some great unis for Broncos, Colts, Eagles, Bears, Giants, and Dallas, and at least when I create my 11 custom players they more closley resemble their NFL counterparts. Superior physics help, Jacobs @ 265 behaves different then Bradshaw @ 215, and never gets de-cleated, not so in Madden.

[jyoung]

Re: Why All-Pro Football Still Trumps Madden

this is just plain silly to compare All Pro 2K8 to Madden 10.

Why?

Both games claim to be accurate representations of professional football, so what's wrong with looking at what happens on these games' fields play and analyzing where they fall short of capturing the intricacies of the sport?

All this article's looking at it is gameplay, which has nothing to do with things like franchise mode or NFL licenses.

Exactly my thoughts. When APF hit, I was tempted. But after reading about generic teams, I passed. That, and no franchise mode. So what-------I play one season, and.....and.......game over???? Fun stuff.........eh, no.

You join a league and you start your own online franchise, college football dynasty, fantasy draft, whatever; the game is flexible enough to accommodate just about any league type you and your league-mates can think up.

I've participated in tons over the last couple of years and they all trump just about any offline mode you could think up.

This game was made for head-to-head play, whether offline or online, not grinding out season after season against a predictable AI opponent.

[Valdarez]

Re: Why All-Pro Football Still Trumps Madden

Sorry I really enjoy the write ups on OS most of the time but this is just plain silly to compare All Pro 2K8 to Madden 10. I understand not everyone is an EA fan but give me a break.

Yeah... comparing two football games. Crazy.

Good write up. I have yet to purchase Madden as I have only purchased it used off eBay since the 2005 exclusive license tragedy when the NFL and EA consorted to ruin football gaming for a half a decade (now to be what, 8 years of sticking it to the fans?).

I finally got NCAA for under $30 delivered. It got good reviews on the game sites, but many gamers are trashing it... so I don't expect a lot out of it especially since it was Madden who saw most of the gameplay updates.

What I'm seeing from the APF2K8 Gamers who bought the hype is that at first they were happy with the game as there were gameplay improvements, but the more they played it the more they disliked it as they realized that the gameplay though improved still falls short of APF2K8 (not to mention numerous bugs). Most have come back to APF2K8 and the others seem to only be playing the online franchise (primarily based on forum posts / friends list conversations).

I played the Madden demo and I was still disappointed with the game. Still no route based passing. Still issues with running mechanics (no momentum / proper footwork / direction changes). Still instant turn changes (glossed over with a pretty little circle now, but still there just different animation).

I'm pretty much on board with the poster who said the game engine needs an overhaul. It seems that there are just too many foundational issues with Madden that keep it from being a quality football game from a gameplay standpoint.

[spankdatazz22]

Re: Why All-Pro Football Still Trumps Madden

Sorry I really enjoy the write ups on OS most of the time but this is just plain silly to compare All Pro 2K8 to Madden 10. I understand not everyone is an EA fan but give me a break.

I will say it's difficult to make a direct comparison of the two games. Just as I have a problem making a direct comparison of 2K5 or Madden last gen to Madden 10 next gen - you really can only make indirect comparisons. We're trying to compare games that are at a huge disadvantage because of age, technology, and in APF's case lacking the NFL license. APF was a one-year next-gen effort and didn't benefit of multiple years of feedback and tweaking. This is Madden's 5th. And I'm sure there will still be some people that will say "give [them] a break, this is Ian's first year" (despite that not being close to being true; he's been integral to Madden development for several years at least). The problem for Madden is that it hasn't put these comparisons to rest despite having every advantage imaginable.

I don't think APF trumps Madden 10 across the board as the article hints at. But there are still several key areas (OL/DL, DB/WR play & interaction, QB play) where APF performs fundamentally better. Or at the very least, those things are still debateable. And that looks really bad on Madden's part.

[Eddie1967]

Re: Why All-Pro Football Still Trumps Madden

Sorry I really enjoy the write ups on OS most of the time but this is just plain silly to compare All Pro 2K8 to Madden 10. I understand not everyone is an EA fan but give me a break.

It's actually a fair comparison because the article is talking about game play. Madden is supposed to simulate the NFL, but besides the uniforms and team names, it doesn't do that very well IMHO. If APF was fully customizable I think a lot of people would be very happy because it does a better job of simulating football than madden does.

[GiantBlue76]

Great article. Couldn't agree more. All of these issues made Madden unplayable for me (again). Why go backwards in the quality of a game? As much as I love the NFL, I love the game of football more, and if the football is completely wrong, how can you enjoy it?

[grunt]

Re: Why All-Pro Football Still Trumps Madden

The best thing is that I have NFL 2k5 with updated rosters, APF2k8, and Madden 10. I have three football games that I can totate. My favorite is APF2k8 because I am a scheme guy. I use to love reading Autumn post regarding personel. I think APF2k8 just fit a certain type of gamer. It is almost like the game was made for me.

One thing I want people to notice when we talk about 2k8 we usually talk about x's and o's when I go on the Madden board you rarely ever hear about x's and o'x.

[GiantBlue76]

I will say it's difficult to make a direct comparison of the two games. Just as I have a problem making a direct comparison of 2K5 or Madden last gen to Madden 10 next gen - you really can only make indirect comparisons. We're trying to compare games that are at a huge disadvantage because of age, technology, and in APF's case lacking the NFL license. APF was a one-year next-gen effort and didn't benefit of multiple years of feedback and tweaking. This is Madden's 5th. And I'm sure there will still be some people that will say "give [them] a break, this is Ian's first year" (despite that not being close to being true; he's been integral to Madden development for several years at least). The problem for Madden is that it hasn't put these comparisons to rest despite having every advantage imaginable.

I don't think APF trumps Madden 10 across the board as the article hints at. But there are still several key areas (OL/DL, DB/WR play & interaction, QB play) where APF performs fundamentally better. Or at the very least, those things are still debateable. And that looks really bad on Madden's part.

This sums it up 100% accurately ^^^

[RogueHominid]

Re: Why All-Pro Football Still Trumps Madden

The best thing is that I have NFL 2k5 with updated rosters, APF2k8, and Madden 10. I have three football games that I can totate. My favorite is APF2k8 because I am a scheme guy. I use to love reading Autumn post regarding personel. I think APF2k8 just fit a certain type of gamer. It is almost like the game was made for me.

One thing I want people to notice when we talk about 2k8 we usually talk about x's and o's when I go on the Madden board you rarely ever hear about x's and o'x.

I'm pretty well over APF, and I think generally we need to be more patient with learning what's in Madden and what it can do since we spent 2 years learning what APF could do, but you have a good point in your kind words about my long-winded posts.

A great feature of APF was the mystery surrounding the players. You had to play lots of games with those guys to figure out what they could and couldn't do, and that was really immersive and authentic. It was a blast to try different guys in different schemes.

I do think that Madden has provided some clear player differentiation but much of it is discernible through numerical ratings. I'm not a big fan of that, but it's not going away. I definitely miss learning that Cromwell was a great run support guy, good in zone, had marginal hands, and was slower than Marion, who was better in man and had even worse hands while being a decent tackler.

[CreatineKasey]

Re: Why All-Pro Football Still Trumps Madden

I'm pretty well over APF, and I think generally we need to be more patient with learning what's in Madden and what it can do since we spent 2 years learning what APF could do, but you have a good point in your kind words about my long-winded posts.

A great feature of APF was the mystery surrounding the players. You had to play lots of games with those guys to figure out what they could and couldn't do, and that was really immersive and authentic. It was a blast to try different guys in different schemes.

I do think that Madden has provided some clear player differentiation but much of it is discernible through numerical ratings. I'm not a big fan of that, but it's not going away. I definitely miss learning that Cromwell was a great run support guy, good in zone, had marginal hands, and was slower than Marion, who was better in man and had even worse hands while being a decent tackler.

Madden has player character this year, which is good. It also has everything spelled out for you (as you said) which I don't like. Abilities were just so much fun to work with. People could actually have debates over similar tiered players as to who is better. In most sports games you just look at the number given... lame.

[steveo]

I find APF 2k8 to be very mediocre compared to nfl2k5 probably because of the fact making teams in it sucks with no ratings and just having to guess how players will play.

I'll take madden any day over apf2k8, warts and all.

Now what really needs to happen is a next gen version of nfl2k5 with its few issues fixed. That would destroy madden.

[grunt]

Re: Why All-Pro Football Still Trumps Madden

I'm pretty well over APF, and I think generally we need to be more patient with learning what's in Madden and what it can do since we spent 2 years learning what APF could do, but you have a good point in your kind words about my long-winded posts.

A great feature of APF was the mystery surrounding the players. You had to play lots of games with those guys to figure out what they could and couldn't do, and that was really immersive and authentic. It was a blast to try different guys in different schemes.

I do think that Madden has provided some clear player differentiation but much of it is discernible through numerical ratings. I'm not a big fan of that, but it's not going away. I definitely miss learning that Cromwell was a great run support guy, good in zone, had marginal hands, and was slower than Marion, who was better in man and had even worse hands while being a decent tackler.

I should have cut and paste your posts and just kept a notebook. I am enjoying all three games.

[SA1NT401]

I agree on ALL FRONTS......