Why All-Pro Football Still Trumps Madden

[teambayern]

Re: Why All-Pro Football Still Trumps Madden

Indeed it needs to be patched. But it's not just the QB's sixth sense that's the problem. The WR's should not be even aware he is throwing the ball. That's the thing that is irritating me. I can get pressure but this bastard slings it down the field to a WR who is not looking but he catches it anyway. WEAK!!

Same with the CB's. APF didn't do this particularly well either, but in Madden you can run something like a streak or double route, where the CB is hauling *** with his back turned just to catch up. Yet as you throw it, his spidey senses kick in and he immediately turns and pursues the ball instead of doing the desperate run-toward-the-wr-with-my-hands-up move we see all the time in Sundays. I think that's the main reason deep throws are so easily batted/intercepted: the DB's get a lot of time to move in front of it with none of the confusion that would normally come from guarding a man while keeping an eye on the qb directly behind you.

[CreatineKasey]

Re: Why All-Pro Football Still Trumps Madden

Same with the CB's. APF didn't do this particularly well either, but in Madden you can run something like a streak or double route, where the CB is hauling *** with his back turned just to catch up. Yet as you throw it, his spidey senses kick in and he immediately turns and pursues the ball instead of doing the desperate run-toward-the-wr-with-my-hands-up move we see all the time in Sundays. I think that's the main reason deep throws are so easily batted/intercepted: the DB's get a lot of time to move in front of it with none of the confusion that would normally come from guarding a man while keeping an eye on the qb directly behind you.

I also think the ball trajectory and ball speeds are weird in Madden. In APF the balls felt authentic when thrown. They seemed to move is if people were throwing them, even the lobs. In M10 the lobs just look kinda silly to me, and seem to flutter in the air maybe more than a throw like that would in real life. Also, I have trouble effectively throwing a ball for your WR to run under. They love to give CB's a chance out there

[slickdtc]

Re: Why All-Pro Football Still Trumps Madden

I also think the ball trajectory and ball speeds are weird in Madden. In APF the balls felt authentic when thrown. They seemed to move is if people were throwing them, even the lobs. In M10 the lobs just look kinda silly to me, and seem to flutter in the air maybe more than a throw like that would in real life. Also, I have trouble effectively throwing a ball for your WR to run under. They love to give CB's a chance out there

Extremely noticeable to me. Maybe the people who only play the Madden series are used to it, but after playing APF2k8 and seeing the great trajectories, it's hard to even stand those ridiculous mile high throws. I hardly ever lob the ball, it doesn't seem to be worth it.

[sportyguyfl31]

Re: Why All-Pro Football Still Trumps Madden

There's one thing in Madden that absolutely burns my oil.

The worst throw you can make in Madden is the downfield, one on one throw to a reciever vs. a zone defender.

Logic would say, "throw this pass", but what you will see, is a LB, who is beat by a good 2-3 yards by a receiver, be able to bat the ball down, or the pass you throw, leading the reciever into the DB for a INT.

[RogueHominid]

Re: Why All-Pro Football Still Trumps Madden

There's one thing in Madden that absolutely burns my oil.

The worst throw you can make in Madden is the downfield, one on one throw to a reciever vs. a zone defender.

Logic would say, "throw this pass", but what you will see, is a LB, who is beat by a good 2-3 yards by a receiver, be able to bat the ball down, or the pass you throw, leading the reciever into the DB for a INT.

This is the one throw type I haven't totally gotten yet either. I can throw every route in the game and enjoy the way it works so long as the matchups are right, but the vertical game is still stumping me a bit.

I've seen guys lob balls up to singled-up WR and TE and get some really nice completions, and I've gotten a few myself, but I haven't figured out when to release the ball in the route and with what kind of touch to get a reasonably consistent result.

I don't think deep passes should be easy, but I think I should be able to figure out how to wing it so that Jamarcus will put the ball out there to be run under. I feel like you have to know just when in the vertical route to do that. Too early and the QB will throw it like it's a super deep stop pattern, allowing the DB to make a play when he shouldn't be able to.

Tips on when's the right time to let 'er rip on those patterns?

[ANDROMADA 1]

Re: Why All-Pro Football Still Trumps Madden

There's one thing in Madden that absolutely burns my oil.

The worst throw you can make in Madden is the downfield, one on one throw to a reciever vs. a zone defender.

Logic would say, "throw this pass", but what you will see, is a LB, who is beat by a good 2-3 yards by a receiver, be able to bat the ball down, or the pass you throw, leading the reciever into the DB for a INT.

I see I am not the only one that noticed this....

[ANDROMADA 1]

Re: Why All-Pro Football Still Trumps Madden

This is the one throw type I haven't totally gotten yet either. I can throw every route in the game and enjoy the way it works so long as the matchups are right, but the vertical game is still stumping me a bit.

I've seen guys lob balls up to singled-up WR and TE and get some really nice completions, and I've gotten a few myself, but I haven't figured out when to release the ball in the route and with what kind of touch to get a reasonably consistent result.

I don't think deep passes should be easy, but I think I should be able to figure out how to wing it so that Jamarcus will put the ball out there to be run under. I feel like you have to know just when in the vertical route to do that. Too early and the QB will throw it like it's a super deep stop pattern, allowing the DB to make a play when he shouldn't be able to.

Tips on when's the right time to let 'er rip on those patterns?

We should set up thread to discuss this to make it more effective...I feel it is a league wide problem for most users.

[RogueHominid]

Re: Why All-Pro Football Still Trumps Madden

[/B]

We should set up thread to discuss this to make it more effective...I feel it is a league wide problem for most users.

Yes, and lab it. I feel like there's a stem point in the route, before which you will throw a stop essentially, right into the coverage, and after which you will throw a proper go down the field, which then will depend on your QB deep accuracy as it should.

[jyoung]

Re: Why All-Pro Football Still Trumps Madden

The only way to complete a deep ball in this game is to have your guy outrun the defender by enough steps that the defender can't do the superhuman "swat + tackle" animation on you and break up the play.

If you try to throw a jump ball, the CPU just uses its superhuman abilities to turn around and run to the exact spot on the field where they can jump up in the air and intercept the ball at its highest point.

[Valdarez]

Re: Why All-Pro Football Still Trumps Madden

Madden's defense is completely unrealistic in the passing game. It's had instant turn of direction for their DBs forever, and the warping is has historically been horrible (can't speak for 10 yet). They still haven't fixed the instant direction change in Madden 10 this year, they just changed the animation. DBs still run full speed one direction and now do a little circle loop (instead of just siwtching direction) and are going full speed again. It's completely unrealistic. I think Madden's momentum, speed, attribute system is so messed up they won't ever be able to make it truly sim/authentic with the current engine.

[Valdarez]

Re: Why All-Pro Football Still Trumps Madden

The only way to complete a deep ball in this game is to have your guy outrun the defender by enough steps that the defender can't do the superhuman "swat + tackle" animation on you and break up the play.

If you try to throw a jump ball, the CPU just uses its superhuman abilities to turn around and run to the exact spot on the field where they can jump up in the air and intercept the ball at its highest point.

If you manually catch it, does that help at all? Or does the swat always negate the manual catch? I hardly ever throw streaks, unless in a hail mary / losing scenario where I'm forced to do it.

[Joeyland]

The biggest "tell" in the passing game is that in Madden when you let a ball go, you really have no idea of the outcome, covered players catch it, open players don't, (cause a defender will morph through you). In APF soon as you let the ball go you can tell your odds of a catch by how open he was or how well you got the ball, out, or even how talented the receiver is, imagine that.

[jyoung]

Re: Why All-Pro Football Still Trumps Madden

There must be a trick or something to the manual catching 'cause I'm horrible at it in Madden.

Everytime I press the catch button, my guy just does the stupid "over the shoulder catch" animation.

[CreatineKasey]

Re: Why All-Pro Football Still Trumps Madden

There must be a trick or something to the manual catching 'cause I'm horrible at it in Madden.

Everytime I press the catch button, my guy just does the stupid "over the shoulder catch" animation.

Well... I know there's 2 ways to catch it. You can press and hold Y for the safe catch (maybe what you are doing) and you can tap Y to go for the spectacular, or more aggressive catch.

I've spent some time in the lab, and I have yet to see zone defenses really worked by a deep 25+ yard throw.

[sportyguyfl31]

Re: Why All-Pro Football Still Trumps Madden

Manual catching helps with the downfield throws.

Minh does this, and he is usually able to pull down 1 a game..if he can get into position.

I understand why they did it: They wanted to negate the rocket catch, strafe catch exploit of the past, but ended up actually punishing people who do not force the ball, by making one on one throws, a roll of the dice.

Casey and I played a game last night, with a total of 6 interceptions. Only 2, were a result of a stupid throw.