NFL 2K4: Better AI, Programming than 2K5?

[baa7]

Re: NFL 2K4: Better AI, Programming than 2K5?

The CPU QBs do play better in 2k4, and this is one thing I definitely miss. The CPU QB can dissect a defense and march a team down field in 2k4, but I rarely see that happen in 2k5. In 2k5 it seems like drives are either big plays for scores or nothing...the defense doesn't sustain drives very well...but I think there have been various sliders that have helped this to a degree.

I hear what you're saying with all your points. But here I have to say you're downplaying the CPU QB issue a bit too much. The CPU QB play in 2K5 is flat out broken, and cannot be fixed with edits or sliders. That alone kills the game for me.

And the User QB game is completely mis-programmed as well. Many times a game, you'll spot a receiver, go to throw, and the ball will leave the QB's hand and move sometimes 25-30 degrees in the opposite direction of where you're throwing, even on 5-10 yard passes. I mean, I know some QB's are more inaccurate than others, but c'mon.

It's a programming problem that's hard-coded into the game. It has to do with VC wanting to "intensify" 2K5 compared to 2K4, which you also see in with the kamakazi kick coverage teams and the hyper-tackling (clothesline every play) that goes on in that game. And part of that was VC apparently wanted to program a "more dynamic D game" which means tons more opportunities to pick off passes. And if you watch replays, those sideways QB passes almost always head right into the hands of some LB who just happens to be standing there, away from the play. And not just that: The CPU QB will throw into double and triple coverage, over and over and over again, even when other receivers are (obviously) wide open. It's just bad, bad game programming.

[sportsgeist]

Re: NFL 2K4: Better AI, Programming than 2K5?

I've been with 2K since day one on the Dreamcast and 2K4 is not even close to being as good as 2K5. Going back to 2K4 after playing 2K5 is like going back to the PS1 after Playing the Dreamcast.

[GB33]

Re: NFL 2K4: Better AI, Programming than 2K5?

This has been touched on several occasions. To me it's tough, as I remember playing the snot out of both. But there was always that "something" that I remember 2k4 having. That is until I play them both back to back. My #1 favorite thing that 2k4 did SO SO SO much better, was actually give the quarterback a pocket form and or break down around him. The best I have seen in any game. No matter how much you tweak 2k5, the o-line is just ignorant plain and simple. But then the running game in 2k5 kills 2k4. The lack of momentum and ability to turn on a dime and spin at will just really do it in. 2k5 had definately the best run game. So I want 2k4.5.

[DreadedSteeler]

Re: NFL 2K4: Better AI, Programming than 2K5?

I hated 2K4. It was such crap because once you play franchise and "unlock" those stupid fake players / characters, the entire franchise and even the game is ruined. I played one season in 2K4 going undefeated on legend using the Dolphins. All I did was run with Ricky. I basically ran my way to an undefeated SB championship.

After that, I sold 2K4 and went back to 2K3 which is still my favorite football game of all time. If only there was an editor for 2K3. I would never play 2K5 again.

Back to 2K4, the running game was waaay too EASY as was getting SACKS. In 2K5, momentum kicks in with the running game thus making it harder and while I sometimes hate momentum and wish it wasnt in 2K5, I must admit that its good that its in 2K5 because its more realistic.

2K5 blows away 2K4 in my opinion from top to bottom. People always say that the CPU AI is better in 2K4 but if that was true, I wouldnt have been able to run my way to a SB championship. I wouldnt have been able to go undefeated on Legend in my first franchise. The only thing that 2K4 is better in AI wise is most likely the Draft. I never actually made it past one season in 2K4 so I cant say for sure but im guessing that 2K4's Draft AI / Logic was far better then 2K5's. But other then that, 2K4 is total and complete crap.

I never save my profile so i don't worry about unlocking fake players/characters...problem solved. As far as running Ricky all the way to an undefeated championship, did you try editing the RBs break tackle?, strength? stamina? Seems like a much easier fix than the problems in 2K5, especially the braindead QBs and DBs...to each their own i guess.

[baa7]

Re: NFL 2K4: Better AI, Programming than 2K5?

As far as running Ricky all the way to an undefeated championship, did you try editing the RBs break tackle?, strength? stamina?

I got a chuckle when I read that about Ricky as well. Takes all of 30 seconds to edit a player's ratings. Presto, problem solved. Unless some people really WANT to run 2000+ yards with him and finish the season 16-0

[Rickster101]

Re: NFL 2K4: Better AI, Programming than 2K5?

I got a chuckle when I read that about Ricky as well. Takes all of 30 seconds to edit a player's ratings. Presto, problem solved. Unless some people really WANT to run 2000+ yards with him and finish the season 16-0

Its was kinda funny and I wondered if he was aware of that edit to curb such somewhat inflated stats via the break tackle and stamina it seems to work for most guys but again he might not be aware of making such an edit because if ever there was a case for it Ricky Williams and the "Magical" 2000 yard season would be the prime canidate for it...2000 yards...in Miami is it now that is funny time to relax wada ya say we do it Ricky style and just chill out on thangs...2000 nooo problem!




Holla Back ya'll
Rickster101 aka "Jack Bauer"

There is a fifth dimension beyond that which is known to man. It is a dimension as vast as space and as timeless as infinity. It is the middle ground between light and shadow, between science and superstition, and it lies between the pit of man's fears and the summit of his knowledge. This is the dimension of imagination. It is an area which we call … The Twilight Zone aka "OS...Da Spot".
— Rod Serling

[baa7]

Re: NFL 2K4: Better AI, Programming than 2K5?

Its was kinda funny and I wondered if he was aware of that edit to curb such somewhat inflated stats via the break tackle and stamina

I don't know Rickster. I remember very clearly the day I bought 2K4; peed my pants on the way home I was SO excited about playing it; popped it into the console; started up a game and went "Wha...?" as the RB's ran over everyone - DT's, DE's, LB's, DB's, refs, cheerleaders, sideline cameramen....

Something needed fixing, so I checked player ratings and sure enough the Break Tackle ratings were way too high for most RB's. That's all I edited and it fixed the problem. And all that within the first couple hours of getting the game and playing it for the first time. Others said the Running slider fixed the issue easily.

Regardless, you're right in that 2000 yards for Ricky would be a cool thing anyway.

Hey, and I grew up watching Rod's TV program BTW. 60's; black and white television; would hide behind the sofa while I watched, just in case something bad happened. LOL.

[DreadedSteeler]

Re: NFL 2K4: Better AI, Programming than 2K5?

I don't know Rickster. I remember very clearly the day I bought 2K4; peed my pants on the way home I was SO excited about playing it; popped it into the console; started up a game and went "Wha...?" as the RB's ran over everyone - DT's, DE's, LB's, DB's, refs, cheerleaders, sideline cameramen.....

LOL, thats some funny stuff

[baa7]

Re: NFL 2K4: Better AI, Programming than 2K5?

LOL, thats some funny stuff

The 2K4 RB issue was so ridiciously easy to fix: took about the same amount of time to fix as it takes to type the words “The RB’s in 2K4 are juiced.”

I remember reading at least a couple of site reviews on 2K4, and recall how the reviewers moaned about this “big problem” with the game. And stuff like that makes me think sometimes: Who are these game reviewers? They can’t possibly be human, given all it takes is a thumb and a couple fingers to scroll through a player’s ratings and lower Break Tackle from 90 to 60.

[capa]

Re: NFL 2K4: Better AI, Programming than 2K5?

There have been many posts about tweaking of ratings for 2K5. Would these types of tweaks apply and/or be useful for 2K4? I mean the aggessiveness change, upping the speed of the OL, lowering LB jumping, etc. We know the RBs need their Break Tackle dropped about 20-25 points for sure, but what do you all think about applying the other changes?

I must say, as sold as I am on 2K5, 2K4 does play a better game on the field...especially for coach mode type play as the QBs don't stink up the joint. Now, if they only didn't have that "turn around in a circle before they throw" animation!

C

[baa7]

Re: NFL 2K4: Better AI, Programming than 2K5?

There have been many posts about tweaking of ratings for 2K5. Would these types of tweaks apply and/or be useful for 2K4?

It's been a while, but the only ratings I recall editing were:

Lowered Break Tackle for RB's and receivers. I actually raised Break Tackle for a lot of FB’s while lowering other ratings of theirs, such as Speed.

Raised Run Route for all offensive players. Anything below 85 or so and players will all too often mis-run their route, which is plain stupid if you think about it. Do it once and you’re benched. Do it twice and you’re cut. These guys do it several times a game if that rating is too low.

Raised Catch ratings for all receivers: too many drops otherwise IMO. I prefer defining good from average receivers via their Speed ratings, and other ratings such as Consistency. But realistically, how many NFL receivers can’t catch a pass? Funny how game programmers (don’t) think sometimes.

FYI, if you lower Catch for RB’s to below 50, the CPU QB will not dump the ball off to them coming out of the backfield all the time – a bit of an issue with the game IMO.

Also, tweaked most every Fumble rating in the game. Someone like Tomlinson who holds onto the ball needs his in the 90’s. A fumbler like Tiki circa a couple years ago needs it lowered into the 20’s. The default game programming/ratings programming in relation to the Fumble slider programming is way off IMO.

I also worked extensively on Kicking edits:

http://forums.operationsports.com/vB...=176049&page=2

[NewAgeOutlaw716]

Re: NFL 2K4: Better AI, Programming than 2K5?

Gameplay wise i think NFL 2K3 and 2K4 is better than 2K5.

[daflyboys]

Re: NFL 2K4: Better AI, Programming than 2K5?

Close to a 14 year old bump. Calling the Guinness Book as we speak. I think you got it.