ESPN Football....Can we discuss some of it's WEAKNESSES?

Collapse

Recommended Videos

Collapse
X
 
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • Lisa_Bonami
    Banned
    • Aug 2003
    • 1293

    #1

    ESPN Football....Can we discuss some of it's WEAKNESSES?

    I dont really know what it is and I cant put my finger on it
    but there is something missing from the gameplay for me. I have been playing this game since the dreamcast days and have always enjoyed it's depth and realistic approach but for some reason I dusted off NCAA Football 2004 for the first time in a few months and jumped right into it and had a blast playing it. What I think could use some work in next year's ESPN is the passing game.

    While the results on the field seem to be pretty accurate, its the feel of the passing game and defending it that just doesnt feel as engaging or as dynamic as the Madden engine games. What I would suggest for next year are a couple of areas to tweak or focus on and I would like your oipinion on this as well:

    1. The CPU rarely throws real deep with a long ball, the most you can hope for is some scattered 15-25 yard passes if you leave his guys wide open...and the qb rifles bullets rather than looping bombs.

    2. The physics of passes could use some more variety, when I toss a ball 40 yards downfield to a streaking reciever, it should hang or catch air more like a real bomb rather than looking like a 50 yard zip pass on a predetermined line.

    3. The CPU will rarerly under or overthrow his recievers....everything is a tight spiral...on the mark.

    4. Playing as a secondary defender or just trying to defend the pass is quite a bit more awkard in comparison to Fever, Madden and other titles in the past...there needs to be a little playability tweaking to make the chore more fun and exciting.

    5. I think there could be even more variety added to different types of pass receptions to make it more exciting.

    6. While the tackling engine is fanstastic and really looks more realistic than any game on the market, they still need to tweak it a bit....there is a slight sensation of motion captured 'predetermined-ness' What I mean is this, you almost feel as if your player is going down a split second before the contact even takes place, leaving no hope of ever breaking out of the tackle. If you watch the replays in slo mo, you can easily understand why.....players actually start their 'being tackled animation' a split second before they are actually hit or a player makes contact with them......this gives you that slight pre determined motion capture feeling rather then a true impact feeling.

    6. Player running animations need some work....players, especially recievers dont give you the sensation they are kicking it into 2 gear and long leggin' it down the sidelines to daylight. Different position players have different running styles...for example, alot of running backs motor...they stutter step or shuffle thru a hole then 'motor' into high gear once they hit daylight.....While recievers like to 'high tail' it more with longer sprinting strides. Fever 2004 actually does a pretty good job of capturing 'that' small aspect of the sport.

    7. On a seperate note, I think the franchise mode could use some more depth...its very simplified in alot of areas such as the repetitive scouting reports or owner comments and observations you'll recieve. The stat screens could use some aesthetic and cosmetic improving...it looks too jumbled and spreadsheet-ish.

    8. I would just love for 1 single CAREER or DYNASTY based game ( football, basketball, baseball, anything ) to really allow the game to compile HISTORY from season to season and allow the users to actually be able to look back at any single season and view things like standings, records, awards, for any year they want. All these career based games basically reset themselves each year and only record minimal stuff such as player's independent data and their age. I'd love to be able to see ALL the History I've created in my little world. I want to be able to have the luxury and pleasure to scout a team by being able to pull up the last 10 times the teams played each other and view their boxscores and stats, ect....that would be so cool! Things like that would really make these DYNASTY modes real DYNASTY modes!

    9. The different teams seem to pool the same AI styles a bit too much. I know each team has their own specific playbooks but I think the AI manages each team too similarly. I'd like to see more of a seperation of gameplay style and focus for each team.


    10. The kicking game, most notably field goals needs some work. The cpu just doesnt miss field goals. It never challenges a play unless it knows its 100% right...which kinda defeats the whole purpose of adding the challenge play feauture into the game.

    I would also like to see the occassional bad snap on shotguns, punts, even right under the center to add a bit more variety into the game.


    Overall, these things are alot of little peaves or annoyances but they add up to more robust game if tweaked properly...at least in my opinion. Anyone agree at all with any of these observations or want to add more areas you feel the game could use more improvement?


    I still think ESPN Football is the best video game football to date on any platform but it could still improve with attention paid to some of the above mention. And I think it's always good to discuss ways to better enhance a game.
  • ADW
    Pro
    • Jul 2002
    • 512

    #2
    Re: ESPN Football....Can we discuss some of it\'s WEAKNESSES?

    </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
    9. The different teams seem to pool the same AI styles a bit too much. I know each team has their own specific playbooks but I think the AI manages each team too similarly. I'd like to see more of a seperation of gameplay style and focus for each team.


    <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

    This is probably my biggest gripe with ESPN Football. The teams play too much alike, especailly on offense. For example I get so tired of seeing the toss play from the split back formation being run by seemingly every team. The playbooks are huge for each team, but rarely does the cpu take advantage of the entire playbook. They almost never use any of the spread formations execpt on third down and other passing situations. Teams also don't play like their real life counterparts. The Colts, Titans, Vikings, and Browns are primarily one back offenses, but in ESPN NFL they are almost always in two back sets.

    I'd like to see the underneath coverage in zone defenses improve. The linebackers don't get enough depth in their zone drops and don't do a good job of rotating to the ball. The middle linebacker in cover 2 should turn and run to the deep middle.

    They do need to work on the herky jerky run animations and the player models still look a tad akward.

    The playcalling interface is an improvement over previous versions of the game. Defensively though I'd like to instantly know what personnel the cpu is bringing on the field. As it is now you have to wait a few seconds and then you get the personnel grouping of the offense. But by this time you only have a few seconds to pick a play.

    The field turf surfaces look dreadful. They should look exactly like the grass surfaces, except they shouldn't be torn up. When playing at Baltimore, Dallas, Buffalo, Atlanta, Seattle, or Giants Stadium you don't get the feeling you're playing on the field turf surfaces.

    The instant replay camera at times is out of whack. When I go to look at an instant replay and rotate the camera or zoom it all the way out, the camera seems to take on a mind of it's on. In Madden you can rotate the camera to view the replay from a side angle and you can also zoom the camera to get the view from the press box. In the business this view is called the "All 22". Meaning you can see all 22 players from a press box type view. If anyone has seen the NFL Matchup show with Jaws and Merril Hoge you know what I'm talking about. In ESPN you can do this to some extent when the camera is directly behind the offense and defense, but not when the camera is at the side angle.

    The final one is a small gripe, but I'd like to have the option for the home team to wear it's white uniforms at home. As it is now the only way you can do this is if your team happens to have an alternate white uniform.

    Comment

    • ADW
      Pro
      • Jul 2002
      • 512

      #3
      Re: ESPN Football....Can we discuss some of it\'s WEAKNESSES?

      </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
      9. The different teams seem to pool the same AI styles a bit too much. I know each team has their own specific playbooks but I think the AI manages each team too similarly. I'd like to see more of a seperation of gameplay style and focus for each team.


      <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

      This is probably my biggest gripe with ESPN Football. The teams play too much alike, especailly on offense. For example I get so tired of seeing the toss play from the split back formation being run by seemingly every team. The playbooks are huge for each team, but rarely does the cpu take advantage of the entire playbook. They almost never use any of the spread formations execpt on third down and other passing situations. Teams also don't play like their real life counterparts. The Colts, Titans, Vikings, and Browns are primarily one back offenses, but in ESPN NFL they are almost always in two back sets.

      I'd like to see the underneath coverage in zone defenses improve. The linebackers don't get enough depth in their zone drops and don't do a good job of rotating to the ball. The middle linebacker in cover 2 should turn and run to the deep middle.

      They do need to work on the herky jerky run animations and the player models still look a tad akward.

      The playcalling interface is an improvement over previous versions of the game. Defensively though I'd like to instantly know what personnel the cpu is bringing on the field. As it is now you have to wait a few seconds and then you get the personnel grouping of the offense. But by this time you only have a few seconds to pick a play.

      The field turf surfaces look dreadful. They should look exactly like the grass surfaces, except they shouldn't be torn up. When playing at Baltimore, Dallas, Buffalo, Atlanta, Seattle, or Giants Stadium you don't get the feeling you're playing on the field turf surfaces.

      The instant replay camera at times is out of whack. When I go to look at an instant replay and rotate the camera or zoom it all the way out, the camera seems to take on a mind of it's on. In Madden you can rotate the camera to view the replay from a side angle and you can also zoom the camera to get the view from the press box. In the business this view is called the "All 22". Meaning you can see all 22 players from a press box type view. If anyone has seen the NFL Matchup show with Jaws and Merril Hoge you know what I'm talking about. In ESPN you can do this to some extent when the camera is directly behind the offense and defense, but not when the camera is at the side angle.

      The final one is a small gripe, but I'd like to have the option for the home team to wear it's white uniforms at home. As it is now the only way you can do this is if your team happens to have an alternate white uniform.

      Comment

      • ADW
        Pro
        • Jul 2002
        • 512

        #4
        Re: ESPN Football....Can we discuss some of it\'s WEAKNESSES?

        </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
        9. The different teams seem to pool the same AI styles a bit too much. I know each team has their own specific playbooks but I think the AI manages each team too similarly. I'd like to see more of a seperation of gameplay style and focus for each team.


        <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

        This is probably my biggest gripe with ESPN Football. The teams play too much alike, especailly on offense. For example I get so tired of seeing the toss play from the split back formation being run by seemingly every team. The playbooks are huge for each team, but rarely does the cpu take advantage of the entire playbook. They almost never use any of the spread formations execpt on third down and other passing situations. Teams also don't play like their real life counterparts. The Colts, Titans, Vikings, and Browns are primarily one back offenses, but in ESPN NFL they are almost always in two back sets.

        I'd like to see the underneath coverage in zone defenses improve. The linebackers don't get enough depth in their zone drops and don't do a good job of rotating to the ball. The middle linebacker in cover 2 should turn and run to the deep middle.

        They do need to work on the herky jerky run animations and the player models still look a tad akward.

        The playcalling interface is an improvement over previous versions of the game. Defensively though I'd like to instantly know what personnel the cpu is bringing on the field. As it is now you have to wait a few seconds and then you get the personnel grouping of the offense. But by this time you only have a few seconds to pick a play.

        The field turf surfaces look dreadful. They should look exactly like the grass surfaces, except they shouldn't be torn up. When playing at Baltimore, Dallas, Buffalo, Atlanta, Seattle, or Giants Stadium you don't get the feeling you're playing on the field turf surfaces.

        The instant replay camera at times is out of whack. When I go to look at an instant replay and rotate the camera or zoom it all the way out, the camera seems to take on a mind of it's on. In Madden you can rotate the camera to view the replay from a side angle and you can also zoom the camera to get the view from the press box. In the business this view is called the "All 22". Meaning you can see all 22 players from a press box type view. If anyone has seen the NFL Matchup show with Jaws and Merril Hoge you know what I'm talking about. In ESPN you can do this to some extent when the camera is directly behind the offense and defense, but not when the camera is at the side angle.

        The final one is a small gripe, but I'd like to have the option for the home team to wear it's white uniforms at home. As it is now the only way you can do this is if your team happens to have an alternate white uniform.

        Comment

        • jazz989
          MVP
          • Feb 2003
          • 420

          #5
          Re: ESPN Football....Can we discuss some of it\'s WEAKNESSES?

          Lisa, while I can agree to some nagging annoyances in ESPN NFL2K4 it is not that bad at all. The 2k series had always been plagued by clipping animations in the past, as you can see, these issues have almost been wiped out completely. The running animation can be more varied true, but what we have does not take away from the action on screen. And, I agree there can and ought to be more flair on the ball physics to add to the realistic nature of gravity in motion, again, what we have does not hinder. Basically, the peaves you've mentioned can be resolved in time given the developer(s)are made aware of. Other than that, I totally agree -- THIS GAME ROCKS!!!
          "It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog."
          - Mark Twain (1835-1910)

          Political minded? Need to be heard? Please visit:
          http://texanwolverine.proboards32.com/index.cgi

          Comment

          • jazz989
            MVP
            • Feb 2003
            • 420

            #6
            Re: ESPN Football....Can we discuss some of it\'s WEAKNESSES?

            Lisa, while I can agree to some nagging annoyances in ESPN NFL2K4 it is not that bad at all. The 2k series had always been plagued by clipping animations in the past, as you can see, these issues have almost been wiped out completely. The running animation can be more varied true, but what we have does not take away from the action on screen. And, I agree there can and ought to be more flair on the ball physics to add to the realistic nature of gravity in motion, again, what we have does not hinder. Basically, the peaves you've mentioned can be resolved in time given the developer(s)are made aware of. Other than that, I totally agree -- THIS GAME ROCKS!!!
            "It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog."
            - Mark Twain (1835-1910)

            Political minded? Need to be heard? Please visit:
            http://texanwolverine.proboards32.com/index.cgi

            Comment

            • jazz989
              MVP
              • Feb 2003
              • 420

              #7
              Re: ESPN Football....Can we discuss some of it\'s WEAKNESSES?

              Lisa, while I can agree to some nagging annoyances in ESPN NFL2K4 it is not that bad at all. The 2k series had always been plagued by clipping animations in the past, as you can see, these issues have almost been wiped out completely. The running animation can be more varied true, but what we have does not take away from the action on screen. And, I agree there can and ought to be more flair on the ball physics to add to the realistic nature of gravity in motion, again, what we have does not hinder. Basically, the peaves you've mentioned can be resolved in time given the developer(s)are made aware of. Other than that, I totally agree -- THIS GAME ROCKS!!!
              "It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog."
              - Mark Twain (1835-1910)

              Political minded? Need to be heard? Please visit:
              http://texanwolverine.proboards32.com/index.cgi

              Comment

              • Kanobi
                H*F Cl*ss *f '09
                • Apr 2003
                • 6050

                #8
                Re: ESPN Football....Can we discuss some of it\'s WEAKNESSES?

                </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
                Lisa_Bonami said:
                Anyone agree at all with any of these observations or want to add more areas you feel the game could use more improvement?


                <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

                Yes, But theres a Wishlist thread at the top of the forum already.

                If you want to see alot of ideas and suggestions on how the game could be better peep out the wishlist (which is where your original post should have gone ).

                VC checks the forums all the time so I'm sure we can look forward to a tighter nfl2k5 next year. In the meantime nfl2k4 is the shizznit.

                Comment

                • Kanobi
                  H*F Cl*ss *f '09
                  • Apr 2003
                  • 6050

                  #9
                  Re: ESPN Football....Can we discuss some of it\'s WEAKNESSES?

                  </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
                  Lisa_Bonami said:
                  Anyone agree at all with any of these observations or want to add more areas you feel the game could use more improvement?


                  <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

                  Yes, But theres a Wishlist thread at the top of the forum already.

                  If you want to see alot of ideas and suggestions on how the game could be better peep out the wishlist (which is where your original post should have gone ).

                  VC checks the forums all the time so I'm sure we can look forward to a tighter nfl2k5 next year. In the meantime nfl2k4 is the shizznit.

                  Comment

                  • Kanobi
                    H*F Cl*ss *f '09
                    • Apr 2003
                    • 6050

                    #10
                    Re: ESPN Football....Can we discuss some of it\'s WEAKNESSES?

                    </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
                    Lisa_Bonami said:
                    Anyone agree at all with any of these observations or want to add more areas you feel the game could use more improvement?


                    <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

                    Yes, But theres a Wishlist thread at the top of the forum already.

                    If you want to see alot of ideas and suggestions on how the game could be better peep out the wishlist (which is where your original post should have gone ).

                    VC checks the forums all the time so I'm sure we can look forward to a tighter nfl2k5 next year. In the meantime nfl2k4 is the shizznit.

                    Comment

                    • Rickster101
                      MVP
                      • Sep 2003
                      • 4203

                      #11
                      Re: ESPN Football....Can we discuss some of it\'s WEAKNESSES?

                      </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
                      Kanobi said:
                      </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
                      Lisa_Bonami said:
                      Anyone agree at all with any of these observations or want to add more areas you feel the game could use more improvement?


                      <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

                      Yes, But theres a Wishlist thread at the top of the forum already.

                      If you want to see alot of ideas and suggestions on how the game could be better peep out the wishlist (which is where your original post should have gone ).

                      VC checks the forums all the time so I'm sure we can look forward to a tighter nfl2k5 next year. In the meantime nfl2k4 is the shizznit.

                      <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">Great post Lisa I'm glad you put it here or I might have missed it. The games very good IMHO and I'm sure some of you thoughts and ideas will show up in nexts years game because the game despite its short comings is as close to the real thing IMHO as we "Gamers" are gonna get.

                      Hey Kanobi props on that insightful link "good lookin out" thanks.
                      Rickster101
                      The One and Only
                      "Class is now in session"
                      ____________________
                      Now currently playing:NCAA 2009 Madden 2009 EA SPORTS HEAD COACH ESPN NFL 2K5/6/7,ESPN NBA 2K8,NBA Live09

                      Comment

                      • Rickster101
                        MVP
                        • Sep 2003
                        • 4203

                        #12
                        Re: ESPN Football....Can we discuss some of it\'s WEAKNESSES?

                        </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
                        Kanobi said:
                        </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
                        Lisa_Bonami said:
                        Anyone agree at all with any of these observations or want to add more areas you feel the game could use more improvement?


                        <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

                        Yes, But theres a Wishlist thread at the top of the forum already.

                        If you want to see alot of ideas and suggestions on how the game could be better peep out the wishlist (which is where your original post should have gone ).

                        VC checks the forums all the time so I'm sure we can look forward to a tighter nfl2k5 next year. In the meantime nfl2k4 is the shizznit.

                        <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">Great post Lisa I'm glad you put it here or I might have missed it. The games very good IMHO and I'm sure some of you thoughts and ideas will show up in nexts years game because the game despite its short comings is as close to the real thing IMHO as we "Gamers" are gonna get.

                        Hey Kanobi props on that insightful link "good lookin out" thanks.
                        Rickster101
                        The One and Only
                        "Class is now in session"
                        ____________________
                        Now currently playing:NCAA 2009 Madden 2009 EA SPORTS HEAD COACH ESPN NFL 2K5/6/7,ESPN NBA 2K8,NBA Live09

                        Comment

                        • Rickster101
                          MVP
                          • Sep 2003
                          • 4203

                          #13
                          Re: ESPN Football....Can we discuss some of it\'s WEAKNESSES?

                          </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
                          Kanobi said:
                          </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
                          Lisa_Bonami said:
                          Anyone agree at all with any of these observations or want to add more areas you feel the game could use more improvement?


                          <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

                          Yes, But theres a Wishlist thread at the top of the forum already.

                          If you want to see alot of ideas and suggestions on how the game could be better peep out the wishlist (which is where your original post should have gone ).

                          VC checks the forums all the time so I'm sure we can look forward to a tighter nfl2k5 next year. In the meantime nfl2k4 is the shizznit.

                          <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">Great post Lisa I'm glad you put it here or I might have missed it. The games very good IMHO and I'm sure some of you thoughts and ideas will show up in nexts years game because the game despite its short comings is as close to the real thing IMHO as we "Gamers" are gonna get.

                          Hey Kanobi props on that insightful link "good lookin out" thanks.
                          Rickster101
                          The One and Only
                          "Class is now in session"
                          ____________________
                          Now currently playing:NCAA 2009 Madden 2009 EA SPORTS HEAD COACH ESPN NFL 2K5/6/7,ESPN NBA 2K8,NBA Live09

                          Comment

                          • Lisa_Bonami
                            Banned
                            • Aug 2003
                            • 1293

                            #14
                            Re: ESPN Football....Can we discuss some of it\'s WEAKNESSES?

                            Thanks...im sure it could have went into a wishlist as well but , my main point in posting it here was to actually discuss some of my observations with some of the weaknesses others have noticed and see if we agree.


                            While the tackling engine definitely is more advanced then madden's and even Fever's, playing exclusively in COACH ONLY mode has allowed me to really watch the plays and animations develop without having to focus on controlling the players......here is where you can clearly see what the next evolution of sports gaming is crying for...and that's TRUE RANGE of MOTION and KINETICS, not Motion Capturing.

                            Even the most advanced Motion capturing gets stale over time because you start seeing the repetitiveness of movement, gameplay, ect only after several games which ultimately takes a bit of the freshness away from any game. With True Motion physics and kinetics, Player movements and collisions will react differently on each and every single play similar to what you see with 'rag doll' physics in games like Unreal Tournament and Rainbow Six 3.

                            Can you imagine how amazing it would be to see each and every play...every tackle, every spin or break free from a tackle would unfold if it werent limited by the prescripted-ness of motion capture animations but rather actually developed dynamically on the fly based on real physics??...this would be fantastic and truly be the next evolution in sports gaming.


                            btw, after playing coach mode exclusively now, you can really see where the tackling animations seem to almost seem a bit too prescripted and predetermined. Sometimes the players will actually start to fall a split second before the actual contact is made. Hopefully next year they can at least tighten that up....I felt that the hitting and the sensation of contact was more fierce and a bit tighter in NFL 2K3. Some tackles in ESPN dont even yield a crunching shoulder pad or helmet hitting sound....sorta like silent tackles. Also, I dislike the way players sometimes collide head on and sort of softly fall down in some tackles that just doesnt feel right.

                            Comment

                            • Lisa_Bonami
                              Banned
                              • Aug 2003
                              • 1293

                              #15
                              Re: ESPN Football....Can we discuss some of it\'s WEAKNESSES?

                              Thanks...im sure it could have went into a wishlist as well but , my main point in posting it here was to actually discuss some of my observations with some of the weaknesses others have noticed and see if we agree.


                              While the tackling engine definitely is more advanced then madden's and even Fever's, playing exclusively in COACH ONLY mode has allowed me to really watch the plays and animations develop without having to focus on controlling the players......here is where you can clearly see what the next evolution of sports gaming is crying for...and that's TRUE RANGE of MOTION and KINETICS, not Motion Capturing.

                              Even the most advanced Motion capturing gets stale over time because you start seeing the repetitiveness of movement, gameplay, ect only after several games which ultimately takes a bit of the freshness away from any game. With True Motion physics and kinetics, Player movements and collisions will react differently on each and every single play similar to what you see with 'rag doll' physics in games like Unreal Tournament and Rainbow Six 3.

                              Can you imagine how amazing it would be to see each and every play...every tackle, every spin or break free from a tackle would unfold if it werent limited by the prescripted-ness of motion capture animations but rather actually developed dynamically on the fly based on real physics??...this would be fantastic and truly be the next evolution in sports gaming.


                              btw, after playing coach mode exclusively now, you can really see where the tackling animations seem to almost seem a bit too prescripted and predetermined. Sometimes the players will actually start to fall a split second before the actual contact is made. Hopefully next year they can at least tighten that up....I felt that the hitting and the sensation of contact was more fierce and a bit tighter in NFL 2K3. Some tackles in ESPN dont even yield a crunching shoulder pad or helmet hitting sound....sorta like silent tackles. Also, I dislike the way players sometimes collide head on and sort of softly fall down in some tackles that just doesnt feel right.

                              Comment

                              Working...