Joe Montana Football 16 Looks to be a Mobile Game, Utilizing Unreal Engine 4

[FaceMask]

Re: Joe Montana Football 16 Looks to be a Mobile Game, Utilizing Unreal Engine 4

To each their own because though I agree about the game needing league/franchise structure capability, I don't agree that it needs to be anti-NFL.

I'm not saying it has to be either, but I'm pointing out the fact that so far it's the only formula that has actually worked sales-wise. The others have bombed badly and one of the key identified reasons is that the games had no identity. It was just, turn the game on, make your team, hit the field, play in a fictional league that had no story or history behind it with awful-looking/sounding teams.

I don't want the game to be as over-the-top as Blitz The League, but I don't want it to be sterile like APF and Backbreaker, I also don't want it to lack an identity like those games. Those games had nothing to grab attention beyond the hardcore fanbase and they were largely ignored and written off. If JMF repeats that, this game is DOA. Just adding more customization won't fix that.

FWIW when stating vast customization, I was referring to things like league/franchise capability, along with things that have been in past games like custom stadium/event sounds, highlight creation, etc. To avoid spelling every little detail out, I'm envisioning something along the lines of NFL2k5 without the NFL branding, yet the customization to recreate it.

I don't feel there is a need to over think something like this and an even more apt example would be EA's NCAA Football series. Just provide all the bells and whistles that would be common place in any licensed sports simulation video game, while leaving the desired branding to the User through vast customization and file sharing.

All of that is great. I want it too, that appeals to people like us here, but that alone is not enough to appeal to the larger audience they'll need to make this thing viable sales-wise, and at the end of day they are in this to make money.

That said, I do get your point about being able to go beyond what the NFL would allow in a licensed game or even the actually league. Ideally, NFL replication, beyond NFL replication and whatever else could be possible, given the game provides enough customization.

It's just about having something that will appeal to more than just hardcore gamers, and doing things that actually happen in the real NFL but aren't being allowed in their video game. JMF doesn't have this restriction so they shouldn't restrict themselves. I want this game to be successful so that not only will they keep producing them but other companies will jump into the ring, too.

Some elements from APF and Blitz would make sense to have simply because it's not an NFL game. From APF: Horse collars, helmet to helmet, just being able to lower your helmet. From Blitz The League: Helmets coming off sometimes based on the spot of impact, trash talking and taunting, blood, PED's (this was NUTS in Blitz), a storyline, a default league history/identity, some rules manipulation by the user would be nice too (I hate the extra point for example as it's just a gimme play).

I want deep customization, but there has to be more than that. If they just release Custom Football 16, they'll snag low sales numbers and then never be seen or heard from again.

[FaceMask]

Re: Joe Montana Football 16 Looks to be a Mobile Game, Utilizing Unreal Engine 4

One of my biggest issues with APF2K8 is the lack of League Organization and backstory (for both player characters and the APF League)....and of course the lack of a franchise mode.

IF Joe Montana Football provides the following:

1. Sound gameplay
2. Slightly improved customization (over APF 2K8)
3. Franchise/Career modes
4. League Organization and Backstory

I will poop my pants with joy and slap $65 on the counter. Hell, I'd pay $65 for a next gen port of APF2K8 or 2K5..or both.

I also would like this game to feature solid offline modes. If this game is purely online...I might not purchase.

Exactly. There has to be a strong default concept out of the box. We should be able to edit it all, but they have to remember that not everybody is going to want to go through all of the trouble of editing everything like many of us here would.

[Big FN Deal]

Re: Joe Montana Football 16 Looks to be a Mobile Game, Utilizing Unreal Engine 4

@Facemask, I hear you but I think all a game needs to sell well is, again, a solid structure, vast customization and file sharing. It seems to me you're way over thinking this, just because Blitz sold by being its' own brand of football, doesn't mean that's the only way for an unlicensed football game to sell. You keep bringing up APF and BB in response to my mention of vast customization, as if those games are examples of what I mean but I already stated I didn't buy those games due to their lack of it.

I don't get where the disconnect is and I don't know how to state it any clearer, I believe a game like NFL2k5, without the NFL branding, yet vast customization to recreate it would sell. No company has done that yet, create a full featured football game, including franchise/career mode and storylines, with the capability of the User to recreate/add NFL branding.

Exactly. There has to be a strong default concept out of the box. We should be able to edit it all, but they have to remember that not everybody is going to want to go through all of the trouble of editing everything like many of us here would.

That's where file sharing could easily come into play, like with NCAA Football.

[kjcheezhead]

Re: Joe Montana Football 16 Looks to be a Mobile Game, Utilizing Unreal Engine 4

No reason to hold out hope for it being an NFL licensed game. No reason to believe it will be.

While I agree that the customization needs to be deep, it's equally important to have a solid, believable default league/concept. It can't just be an empty vessel, that's the mistake APF and Backbreaker made. It can't just be "here is a generic game, turn it into something!" that won't draw any attention beyond a small hardcore fanbase. I don't want generic, I want original, I want believable. Blitz The League may not have been an NFL game, but it wasn't generic.

I've said it many times in the past and I believe it because numbers don't lie; Blitz The League didn't succeed because it had the deepest customization, it had depth but it wasn't THAT great. It didn't succeed because you could re-create the NFL. It succeeded because it was anti-NFL; it gave you all the things the NFL is too pansy to give us in real life or in a game. It had weekly training for each player, trash talk between teams during the week, trash talk during the games, headlines like a darker version of ESPN, weekly goals that got you in-game prizes, and a cool storyline. BTL's default league and the concept were all so well planned and crafted with great team names and logos, it made you feel like you were part of something real and it felt bigger than it actually was, and this was a very low budget production.

The game has to have an identity, something to draw in more than just hardcores, otherwise JMF will be one and done.

Do the people making Joe Montana understand that? We'll see.

First, there is reason to believe the NFL is involved, this pic...



The NFL is extremely picky about who uses their trademarks. I had a youtube video taken down because I spliced a 5 second clip of Vince Lombardi into a madden league game clip. I just don't see them allowing this game to use NFL property to promote it in any way without permission.

Secondly, I don't need or even want a blitz the league story. PEDS, broken limbs, injecting players to get them back on the field. Silly stuff that fans of professional wrestling are into. That's not a football game to me, it's a Saints Row that happens to involve football players.

APF needed a bit more customization and a multiple season mode and I think it would've out performed Blitz. I would've given it a option to start with a fantasy draft, and a way to trade players so guys like Montana and Rice could be teammates again. Also an option to make it a 32 team league with nfl style playoff brackets and Backbreakers logo designer to go with its uniform maker. A bonus would be a logo share option where I can download cool logos other people designed.

I believe this actually is an NFL game, but if it's not then I think it's best chance to succeed is to be an APF with at least those additional custom options, and not an over the top blitz style game.

[tanner75]

Re: Joe Montana Football 16 Looks to be a Mobile Game, Utilizing Unreal Engine 4

I can see an EA sports logo banner on that reliant stadium pic?!

[kjcheezhead]

Re: Joe Montana Football 16 Looks to be a Mobile Game, Utilizing Unreal Engine 4

I can see an EA sports logo banner on that reliant stadium pic?!

Wow, you're right. It's on the right side of the image on the wall. This image has me so confused. It doesn't look up to the quality that the head shots do, so I was thinking mobile game, then I heard this is a pc game. I doubted it would be console because of the NFL license,and now you see an EA logo in the shot.

WTH is up with this. Is it for real or is the some weird red herring getting thrown at us?

[FaceMask]

Re: Joe Montana Football 16 Looks to be a Mobile Game, Utilizing Unreal Engine 4

@Facemask, I hear you but I think all a game needs to sell well is, again, a solid structure, vast customization and file sharing. It seems to me you're way over thinking this,

I'm not over-thinking it all. It's rather basic really. A game needs selling points that appeal to a mass audience, provided the company wants to make real money. What you're proposing has no selling point for people outside of the realm we frequent. If the game only has that (heavy customization, good football fundamentals, a franchise mode and no other hooks), it's going to have a short market reach. Like T-Rex arms reach. Why? Because it's not an NFL game, so those things won't be as appealing to the masses as they would be in an NFL game.

just because Blitz sold by being its' own brand of football, doesn't mean that's the only way for an unlicensed football game to sell.

That may be true, it may not be true, time will tell, but so far--and we have 10 years of time to look back on now--no other non-NFL licensed football game has sold as well as Blitz and that's just a matter of fact. Until that changes, I see no reason to think that a game with no identity is going to sell well just because it has even more customization than the two games that bombed (APF and BackBreaker). Lack of customization isn't the sole reason why BB and APF didn't sell well.

You keep bringing up APF and BB in response to my mention of vast customization, as if those games are examples of what I mean but I already stated I didn't buy those games due to their lack of it.

The comparison isn't totally incongruent in the least bit. You're proposing heavy customization. APF and BB may not have had customization to the level that you want, although I'm not entirely sure how you concluded that without actually playing either game/using its tools, but nevermind that... those two games were custom games on a smaller scale than what you're hoping for it appears. Expecting even more customization than that may not even be entirely reasonable considering the size and experience of the production team compared to 2K and even NM, but we'll see what they come up with.

I would've liked for BB to have more customization, but in fairness its level of customization was reasonable for a console game and for the type of game it was. Logo-making was a chore though. BB's biggest issues were in tons of other areas (player models, poor motion capture animations, lack of presentation, lack of sim football principles, a thin over-simplified playbook, too many over-the-top collisions, lack of camera options and on and on). The game was a mess.

APF could've used a lot more customization though, but even that wasn't its biggest problem. Game was still worth a purchase though, just not at $60. It would be hard for me to have a proper frame of reference with regard to Madden's issues today and how far behind the game is in many areas had I not played APF extensively.

I don't get where the disconnect is and I don't know how to state it any clearer, I believe a game like NFL2k5, without the NFL branding, yet vast customization to recreate it would sell. No company has done that yet, create a full featured football game, including franchise/career mode and storylines, with the capability of the User to recreate/add NFL branding.

I get what you're saying clearly, and as I've said before I want these things, too.

If their only goal is to sell to the sim heads, then those few features we care about will be enough. I'll buy it, you'll buy it, but I/we don't represent the larger majority. If they want to actually make money, they're going to need more than what the sim crowd would expect.

Probably all moot though, because I sincerely doubt the game will just be sim-customization-franchise. I think there will be more to it. The only question I have is what direction they're going to take it with modes/features and we have no answers yet and probably won't get any until around the time the game releases.

[Ermolli]

Re: Joe Montana Football 16 Looks to be a Mobile Game, Utilizing Unreal Engine 4

[FaceMask]

Re: Joe Montana Football 16 Looks to be a Mobile Game, Utilizing Unreal Engine 4

Wow, you're right. It's on the right side of the image on the wall. This image has me so confused. It doesn't look up to the quality that the head shots do, so I was thinking mobile game, then I heard this is a pc game. I doubted it would be console because of the NFL license,and now you see an EA logo in the shot.

WTH is up with this. Is it for real or is the some weird red herring getting thrown at us?

I dismissed that here some months ago as being nothing more than a work sample. Never looked it at long enough to see an EA logo. But only things I can think of is that it's a work sample from someone who worked on a EA football game now working on Joe Montana, or EA is behind the game.

I really hope EA has nothing to do with it

[burnt_secondary]

Re: Joe Montana Football 16 Looks to be a Mobile Game, Utilizing Unreal Engine 4

Wow, you're right. It's on the right side of the image on the wall. This image has me so confused. It doesn't look up to the quality that the head shots do, so I was thinking mobile game, then I heard this is a pc game. I doubted it would be console because of the NFL license,and now you see an EA logo in the shot.

WTH is up with this. Is it for real or is the some weird red herring getting thrown at us?

You know, something else has been bugging me lately. Why is rookie Joe Montana featured in the Madden 15 superbowl edition? Again, maybe I'm looking too close at this but that made me start to wonder. With all these Montana 16 rumors I would think EA would shy away from using him in the promo materials. Still included sure, but maybe not feature his pic in the promotional material.

Add the possible (but it sure looks like it to me) EA logo in the picture and I have more questions.

Oh well, all this is kind of fun . . . I just hope it isn't just someone screwing with us from EA. Something like changing from Madden to Montana because of some licensing issue.

[burnt_secondary]

Re: Joe Montana Football 16 Looks to be a Mobile Game, Utilizing Unreal Engine 4

Anyway what do you guys see here? I think I'm seeing the guy on the left working on a model for the line crew. On his other monitor there is a model with a cap so I'm thinking coach . . . maybe official but I think I see a zipper on the front of his shirt so I'm thinking that its a coach.

[FaceMask]

Re: Joe Montana Football 16 Looks to be a Mobile Game, Utilizing Unreal Engine 4

Secondly, I don't need or even want a blitz the league story. PEDS, broken limbs, injecting players to get them back on the field. Silly stuff that fans of professional wrestling are into. That's not a football game to me, it's a Saints Row that happens to involve football players.

I don't necessarily need it either, but we're not the only people they have to sell the game to.

That said, PED's exist in the NFL and it's impossible to miss the stories about them every year and how players find ways to skirt around the rules, and players being caught, as does broken limbs (happens all the time every season) and injections. Thing is, all of that actually is part of the game. It's not "silly" it's real life. If that's where you draw the line for what you want in a sim experience, that's fine, but comparing it to professional wrestling as if it's not a real part of pro football is ignoring reality.

You can have those things without it being over-the-top, its all about how its approached.

APF needed a bit more customization and a multiple season mode and I think it would've out performed Blitz.

I think it would've done a little better, but still bombed. I don't think it would've gotten to Blitz's sales level just for the fact that the marketing of APF sucked and Blitz's marketing was on a whole other level. Plus the fact that Blitz was an M-rated game with M-rated content.

I would've given it a option to start with a fantasy draft, and a way to trade players so guys like Montana and Rice could be teammates again.

You could actually put Montana and Rice on the same team in APF. APF gave you two gold player slots.

I believe this actually is an NFL game, but if it's not then I think it's best chance to succeed is to be an APF with at least those additional custom options, and not an over the top blitz style game.

Depends on how you define success. I can't see that game you're mentioning reaching anything in the neighborhood of 1 Million copies. You don't have to be over-the-top like Blitz, you just can't only be a custom game with a franchise mode and some good football fundamentals and expect to succeed based just on that. That's not realistic.

[Segagendude]

Re: Joe Montana Football 16 Looks to be a Mobile Game, Utilizing Unreal Engine 4

I can see an EA sports logo banner on that reliant stadium pic?!

Great. Now I feel like the guy who scored a date with the prom queen, only to find out she gained 150 pounds since then.

[bringbacksimfootball]

Re: Joe Montana Football 16 Looks to be a Mobile Game, Utilizing Unreal Engine 4

I agree with Facemask. Sim heads often make the mistake of thinking our way of seeing things is how the majority sees it, but nothing could be further from the truth. Most of what we care about is considered whining and nitpicking to the rest of the world. Most of the features and mechanics we care about aren't even touched or noticed by the majority. Most people just play these games and never think about any of it.

Yes, this game is going to need a multi-season mode, and deep customization is a want. But the game is not going to sell simply because of those things to anybody except people like us who show up here, and if you think it will you're kidding yourselves. Its graphics and "cool" features are what is going to attract the majority to buy the game. If it lacks those things, the game will fail, and I have to believe the people making this game have paid attention to what's happened with other efforts in the past decade making fatal mistakes.

Finally, I think the main point of what Facemask is saying is being misunderstood. I don't think he's saying that the game has to be over-the-top like Blitz, he's talking about production depth in terms of concept and appeal to a wide audience. What I'm hearing being proposed by others here is a clinical experience focused only on hardcore features. That's a hindenburg waiting to happen, and you better hope that's not what we get or it will be the last Joe Montana Football game ever made, lol.

[Big FN Deal]

Re: Joe Montana Football 16 Looks to be a Mobile Game, Utilizing Unreal Engine 4

@Facemask, it's illogical to act as if APF and BB are examples of why a game like I am suggesting wouldn't sell, when neither of those games had what I'm suggesting. Further more, it's far more logical for me to argue that Blitz supports my point, since that game had some of the depth I'm referring to minus the User customization to recreate the NFL. So to try to put this another way, a generic game like the Blitz but capable of being User customized to recreate the NFL would sell.

On the topic of the EA logo, since EA and the NFL are partners, is it possible that it's actually a part of the real Reliant Stadium, if that is in fact an EA Sports logo?