Gridiron Champions Has a Release Date, College Football Returns in 2020
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Check out my updated 2017 blog on building a high school football video game:
http://forums.operationsports.com/th...ame-revisited/ -
There is no way that allowing customization is an issue. If it is than the system is biased horribly. PES allows PS4 and PC players the ability to have all the licensed everything that EA pays to have in FIFA with editing options. Big ant who is doing this game has the ability to recreate all the players and teams in Casey Powell lacrosse.
Everything i I read about the situation was EA was putting in QB numbers and the player likenesses with exact heights , weights , even looks and it was all just to similar . I cant imagine that you have the ability to sue someone for putting in a“creation suite” in a game. That’s dangerously close to censorship and freedom of speech issues.2016 NLL Champion Saskatchewan Rush
2018 NLL Champion Saskatchewan Rush
2019 CEBL Champion Saskatchewan RattlersComment
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Re: Gridiron Champions Has a Release Date, College Football Returns in 2020
There is no way that allowing customization is *an issue. *If it is than the system is biased horribly. PES allows PS4 and PC players the ability to have all the licensed everything that EA pays to have in FIFA with editing options. Big ant who is doing this game has the ability to recreate all *the players and teams in Casey Powell lacrosse. *
Everything i I read about the situation was EA was putting in QB numbers *and the player likenesses with exact heights , weights , even looks and it was all just to similar . * I cant *imagine *that you have the ability to sue someone for putting in a“creation suite” *in a game. *That’s dangerously close to censorship *and freedom of speech *issues.*
Axis Football has had people create mods which aren't illegal with actual NCAA teams and logos. Axis Football hasn't been sued, even Ryan Moody talks about it in a new video showing it can be done with actual licenses and logos. The issue would rise IF the game came released with actual logos and licenses without permission. Creating Mods that contain actual NCAA football licenses and logos can be done without legal ramifications as it's been done with Axis Football.
Once they start development and have something, take it to the NCAA and see if they could get their license for the game before it comes out. If they were able to take something and try to convince the NCAA to be on board then maybe by 2020 we could have a fully licensed game.
Answer:
So this is actually wrong and I'll explain why. The first thing you have to understand is the fact someone hasn't been sued doesn't mean they can't be sued. In one sense there is security in obscurity, meaning Axis isn't big enough to even care to send a cease and desist letter to at it's current size. One thing to not though is they have said the customization won't be coming to the consoles most likely, this is probably due to the eyes that will now be on it and the legal tight rope they are walking.
The next issue is whats called contributory infringement. One of the ideas behind contributory infringement is the idea that through your actions or in this case product you are contributing to the infringement of IP by others. One of the defenses to this is that what you provide was not intended to be used that way and that you had no knowledge, and reasonably couldn't know, that it was being used in this way. While Axis probably would lose if they were ever sued, because at this point they should know, IMV will lose for sure because their ownership has stated they intend for it to be used that way.
Now they have already started backing off that concept in recent tweets (Community can just put all the IP in), but the issue here is you can't disassociate yourself from those statements down the line. If they get to a console with eyes on them and are facilitating the infringement what most likely happens is they get a cease and desist letter telling them to remove all trademarks and logos from their upload manager. If they fail to comply they will be sued and they will lose and lose big as they can be held liable for each and every individual case of the infringement meaning those penalties would stack up quickly.
Frankly my biggest concern with the company is they lack the legal war chest to operate in such a legally questionable area. If they really are doing an IPO then they will have to release an investor prospectus. I'd like to see the companies official position on this as far as potential threats to the business and how they plan to navigate it. If they don't even mention it as a potential threat to the business then these guys are delusional.Comment
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Re: Gridiron Champions Has a Release Date, College Football Returns in 2020
There is no way that allowing customization is *an issue. *If it is than the system is biased horribly. PES allows PS4 and PC players the ability to have all the licensed everything that EA pays to have in FIFA with editing options. Big ant who is doing this game has the ability to recreate all *the players and teams in Casey Powell lacrosse. *
Everything i I read about the situation was EA was putting in QB numbers *and the player likenesses with exact heights , weights , even looks and it was all just to similar . * I cant *imagine *that you have the ability to sue someone for putting in a“creation suite” *in a game. *That’s dangerously close to censorship *and freedom of speech *issues.*
What’s always lost and it was mentioned in another thread is anyone sue anyone for anything.
There is no such thing as “you can’t sue for that.”
It’s a question of getting a firm to agree to do it for you.
In the case of customization there is so much grey area now that it wouldn’t be shocking to see such a lawsuit happen no matter how frivolous it seems to you and I.Comment
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Re: Gridiron Champions Has a Release Date, College Football Returns in 2020
I'm not going to get my hopes up too high. I really want a college football game. I honestly don't even care if the players names themselves can be edited, its the teams, uniforms, conferences, logos, playoff setup, ect thats important to me.
If they create a system that's user friendly and robust, then I'll spend untold hours messing around and creating my own college football universe just the way I want it. In that way, its plausible that I'll be happier with this game than I ever was with NCAA.
What I want is to create a 72 team college football world, with eight conferences of 9 teams. 8 conference champions and 8 wild cards make the playoffs. If I can do that, and it has a good recruitment system, then its gold.
Time will tell.Anyone who claims to be a fan of two teams in the same pro sport is actually a fan of none.Comment
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I see what you guys are saying and I’m well aware that anyone can sue anyone for anything if a lawyer will take it on but my point was you’re not gonna win. If you sue someone for putting in a creation option, you’re not gonna win. I don’t care what the developers intent is because unless the developers are complete morons they put in a disclaimer that it isn’t to be used for copyright or licence infringement and liability is passed on to the user. Just like pretty much every internet service that facilitates infringement has been getting away with.
In the obannon case the Athletes were rewarded money based on the number of years they appeared in the game from 2004 to 2013 and some got more than others. It was all based on likeness. Then it spiraled into the NCAA basically looking like they were running sweat shops and ripping off the athletes. EA was sued by the athletes . They won because they could prove their likeness was used.
In no no way shape or form does that involve or even hint at the possibilities of what users can create ever being an issue PES knows a million percent what they are facilitating but quite frankly it’s not their problem. They don’t distribute store or handle the user content in any form and that’s exactly what any game should do. It’s exactly how all these video streaming and music sharing services skirt liability.
the problem with NCAA is that no one wants to touch it with a ten foot pole right now because the cost of defending yourself far outweighs the potential profits in an unlicensed sports game. A company like axis is a perfect vessel for this though. the potential to be sued is far less because the cost of suing someone is also very high. and even if you go after lawyer fees from a company like axis or even big ant it’s getting blood from a stone so why bother. I think it’s a risk worth taking if you’re in Axis shoes.
2016 NLL Champion Saskatchewan Rush
2018 NLL Champion Saskatchewan Rush
2019 CEBL Champion Saskatchewan RattlersComment
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Re: Gridiron Champions Has a Release Date, College Football Returns in 2020
I see what you guys are saying and I’m well aware that anyone can sue anyone for anything if a lawyer will take it on but my point was you’re not gonna win. If you sue someone for putting in a creation option, you’re not gonna win. *I don’t care what the developers intent is because unless the developers are complete morons *they put in a disclaimer that it isn’t to be used for copyright or licence infringement and *liability is passed on to the user. Just like pretty much every internet service that facilitates infringement has been getting away with.*
People keep confusing the fact others have done it and not been sued with the idea that it is legal. Napster literally got taken down for the same thing, they had a system that facilitated in the infringement of IP but they actually had better defense. Napster's software was not designed with the idea to steal music but rather to easily share files peer to peer. IMV has an issue in that their proposed customization component was expressly created to allow their users to infringe on protected IP, this all from the company's official twitter account to boot.
As I have pointed out in other places, others get away with it because they are allowed to not because it's legal. When all these games get to the consoles there will be issues because more eyes end up on it. A 2k is more likely to weather a legal onslaught because they have lawyers on staff that can handle the cease and desists and go back and forth buying them time. 2k also has the advantage that their customization was not built for the stated purpose of infringement, it is a by product of the system. These smaller studios don't have the legal war chest to handle even a few legal challenges, and they don't have good legal footing to stand on even if they wanted to.Last edited by T4VERTS; 04-26-2018, 07:20 AM.Follow me on Twitter @T4VertsComment
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Re: Gridiron Champions Has a Release Date, College Football Returns in 2020
So, for you guys talking about the legal issues:
If this company, or anyone else, put out "Generic College Football 2020", and includes zero real schools, zero real logos, and of course zero real players, but allows the user to edit anything that they want and then share it, are they then free and clear, or is that still an issue?
Trying to make heads or tails of the debate on this.Anyone who claims to be a fan of two teams in the same pro sport is actually a fan of none.Comment
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Re: Gridiron Champions Has a Release Date, College Football Returns in 2020
So, for you guys talking about the legal issues:
If this company, or anyone else, put out "Generic College Football 2020", and includes zero real schools, zero real logos, and of course zero real players, but allows the user to edit anything that they want and then share it, are they then free and clear, or is that still an issue?
Trying to make heads or tails of the debate on this.
My guess is they will go towards an in game team/ logo creator that doesn't allow for uploading so they can avoid these legal issues when it is all said and done. They won't be able to claim ignorance to the infringement based on their own customer interactions. Normally, the best defense to this is being able to say you had no way to know your system was being used for this, but in this case it was designed with this in mind and there are statements out in the public domain to prove it.Last edited by T4VERTS; 04-26-2018, 08:18 AM.Follow me on Twitter @T4VertsComment
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Re: Gridiron Champions Has a Release Date, College Football Returns in 2020
It's interesting that there is all this back and forth about customization, infringement, and such when the likelihood of their actually being a playable game to apply these issues to seems exceedingly low.Jordan Mychal Lemos
@crypticjordan
Do this today: Instead of $%*#!@& on a game you're not going to play or movie you're not going to watch, say something good about a piece of media you're excited about.
Do the same thing tomorrow. And the next. Now do it forever.Comment
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Re: Gridiron Champions Has a Release Date, College Football Returns in 2020
That is true. To me the lack of foresight on the legal front is one of the main red flags to me that tells me the guys running this thing don't have the business know how to pull it off.Follow me on Twitter @T4VertsComment
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Re: Gridiron Champions Has a Release Date, College Football Returns in 2020
And in case anyone doesn't see this article on the front page, this is a good article to read on the topic.
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Re: Gridiron Champions Has a Release Date, College Football Returns in 2020
This is resoundingly false. The liability does not get passed, it actually gets shared through contributory infringement as well as vicarious liability. You say you don't care about their intent, but this is actually part of contributory infringement. The safe harbor statement doesn't dissolve their liability unless they actively monitor their system and remove all attempts to infringe, or make a good faith effort to.
People keep confusing the fact others have done it and not been sued with the idea that it is legal. Napster literally got taken down for the same thing, they had a system that facilitated in the infringement of IP but they actually had better defense. Napster's software was not designed with the idea to steal music but rather to easily share files peer to peer. IMV has an issue in that their proposed customization component was expressly created to allow their users to infringe on protected IP, this all from the company's official twitter account to boot.
As I have pointed out in other places, others get away with it because they are allowed to not because it's legal. When all these games get to the consoles there will be issues because more eyes end up on it. A 2k is more likely to weather a legal onslaught because they have lawyers on staff that can handle the cease and desists and go back and forth buying them time. 2k also has the advantage that their customization was not built for the stated purpose of infringement, it is a by product of the system. These smaller studios don't have the legal war chest to handle even a few legal challenges, and they don't have good legal footing to stand on even if they wanted to.2016 NLL Champion Saskatchewan Rush
2018 NLL Champion Saskatchewan Rush
2019 CEBL Champion Saskatchewan RattlersComment
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Re: Gridiron Champions Has a Release Date, College Football Returns in 2020
You clearly know what you’re talking about I can’t dispute that. There is zero precedence when it comes to video games and creation options. I have never heard of a case being heard for it but maybe I’m wrong. What you’re saying legally is very hard to prove but maybe tweets saying the customization would be used for infringement is enough but I still find it very unlikely. The fact is there are so many games that are doing exactly what this game is saying they will do. Iit seems to me that people are genuinely concerned that for some reason anytime anyone mentions NCAA and video game that it won’t happen because the developers will get sued into the Stone Age. The basis for that seems to be based on what happened to EA but it’s completely apples and oranges.
I am not using what happened to EA at all here, that is actually one of the fallacies going on right now with people thinking they are legally okay. EA had a license of schools and NCAA logos, which are owned by far more powerful organizations than player likeness. EA was taken out by the least powerful player in this whole thing. IMV and similar people are going after the IP owners that have the legal means to really do damage (NCAA/ Schools).
In reality what is happening is people are willing to screw over people's intellectual property to get what they want, in this case a college football game.Follow me on Twitter @T4VertsComment
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Re: Gridiron Champions Has a Release Date, College Football Returns in 2020
You clearly know what you’re talking about I can’t dispute that. There is zero precedence when it comes to video games and creation options. I have never heard of a case being heard for it but maybe I’m wrong. What you’re saying legally is very hard to prove but maybe tweets saying the customization would be used for infringement is enough but I still find it very unlikely. The fact is there are so many games that are doing exactly what this game is saying they will do. Iit seems to me that people are genuinely concerned that for some reason anytime anyone mentions NCAA and video game that it won’t happen because the developers will get sued into the Stone Age. The basis for that seems to be based on what happened to EA but it’s completely apples and oranges.Comment
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