Gridiron Champions Has a Release Date, College Football Returns in 2020

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  • T4VERTS
    MVP
    • Jan 2011
    • 1153

    #31
    Re: Gridiron Champions Has a Release Date, College Football Returns in 2020

    Originally posted by Big FN Deal
    I don't think anyone's opinion on this is anymore valid than anyone else's, including yours, so don't defer. You make good points that have been made time and again, with some historic evidence that backs it up. At the end of the day what matters most is that other games have been able to get away with customization, for whatever reason and it would be great if more football games going forward were able to accomplish the same thing.
    METRO-GOLDWYN-MAYER STUDIOS INC. et al. v. GROKSTER, LTD., et al.

    That is case law that shows why it is illegal if you'd like to learn. Again, because no one has gone down for it yet in this arena doesn't mean they won't. Security in obscurity exists in a lot of these cases. Other guys did it too is not a legal defense when someone goes down for it finally.
    Last edited by T4VERTS; 04-26-2018, 12:25 PM.
    Follow me on Twitter @T4Verts

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    • Unlucky 13
      MVP
      • Apr 2009
      • 1707

      #32
      Re: Gridiron Champions Has a Release Date, College Football Returns in 2020

      So, what if they were to put a game out that allows the user to edit and create anything that they wish, but with no online aspect and no ability to share with others? Basically, taking it back to the early PS2 days. Would that be viable?
      Anyone who claims to be a fan of two teams in the same pro sport is actually a fan of none.

      Comment

      • T4VERTS
        MVP
        • Jan 2011
        • 1153

        #33
        Re: Gridiron Champions Has a Release Date, College Football Returns in 2020

        Originally posted by Unlucky 13
        So, what if they were to put a game out that allows the user to edit and create anything that they wish, but with no online aspect and no ability to share with others? Basically, taking it back to the early PS2 days. Would that be viable?
        It is more likely to be viable but still inside the scope of legal issues. It would be harder to prove damages in this instance because with no data to back up how many actually used it for such a purpose you could get a similar outcome to Sony v Universal. Basically in that case Universal made a claim that the whole idea of home recording, Sony Betamax, was infringing on their copyrights. The courts found that because many people used it for time warping, and that was a reasonable use, that the infringement was an allowable occurrence as it wasn't the primary function of the Betamax.

        In this case IMV could claim that most people don't use the customization to do that, but rather to add themselves into games and such. Short of them finding information in discovery where the insinuate they know that isn't the case, or they have correspondence with others pointing out they know it is a major use of their system then it would be tough to prove. Now with that said, that is where their earlier public comments about being able to just load up team logos and such would be an issue but not necessarily insurmountable without data to back up how pervasive that use actually was.

        *Just to reiterate I am not a lawyer, I just deal with this kind of stuff in what I do for a living so I have read a lot of case law as it relates to copyrights, trademarks, patents, etc.
        Last edited by T4VERTS; 04-26-2018, 12:51 PM.
        Follow me on Twitter @T4Verts

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        • Hooe
          Hall Of Fame
          • Aug 2002
          • 21555

          #34
          Re: Gridiron Champions Has a Release Date, College Football Returns in 2020

          It's worth noting that video game companies have shown previous awareness of the legal ramifications of user-generated content and its potential for widespread intellectual property rights violations.

          Most relevant to Gridiron Champions, which is seeking a PC release on Steam: Steam's Subscriber Agreement specifically calls out user-generated content (for Steam Workshop). The user must agree that he has the rights to use any intellectual property included in a Steam Workshop file he submits to the service (Section 6 point D). By itself this language doesn't prevent users from uploading stuff that infringes on IP rights - I can go download a McDonald's for Cities: Skylines right now - but it's very clearly a violation of Steam's terms of service to infringe on third-party IP rights. To this end, that IMV is so openly advertising that their game will allow users to infringe on third-party IP rights and encouraging them to do so probably isn't going to sit well with Valve.

          Some other examples of video game companies policing or controlling UGC:

          2K Sports has a history of removing user-generated content from NBA 2K18 which infringes on third-party IP rights.

          EA Sports did not include file sharing functionality for custom fighters in EA Sports UFC due to concerns over potential intellectual property rights and trademark infringements.
          Last edited by Hooe; 04-26-2018, 12:42 PM.

          Comment

          • CujoMatty
            Member of Rush Nation
            • Oct 2007
            • 5445

            #35
            What you just said CM hooe is my point. Steam puts the liability on the user and the user is violating the terms of service. But you can still download the violating files. Give me all the legal jargon in the world but McDonald’s isn’t suing anyone, could they? According to our legal contributor the answer is a resounding yes. Quite frankly I believe that but It’s just simply not very likely. IMO.  Why I only read about this whenever NCAA games are brought up makes zero sense to me. OOTP has add on central. PES is the worst offender. MLB the Show you can make player likeness  and share in the vault that has been proven by the Obannon case to be a no no.  All big ant sports games. That’s only a few. So I guess we could argue for days of whether or not there could be liability issues but I’m just not seeing it.  I

            ill let it go now and honestly I did learn some things from this so thanks for the discussion.
            2016 NLL Champion Saskatchewan Rush
            2018 NLL Champion Saskatchewan Rush
            2019 CEBL Champion Saskatchewan Rattlers

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            • Hooe
              Hall Of Fame
              • Aug 2002
              • 21555

              #36
              Re: Gridiron Champions Has a Release Date, College Football Returns in 2020

              I think a key difference here is that, unlike McDonald's, the NFL, NCAA, and groups representing football and basketball players each separately have established track records of pursuing litigation to protect their intellectual property. The NFL in particular is especially litigious.

              You're right, however, that in order for the law to matter in practice, the infringed party must be aware of the violation at all and also care enough about the violation to pursue legal action. That's what T4Verts is getting at with the "security in obscurity" comment.

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              • redsox4evur
                Hall Of Fame
                • Jul 2013
                • 18169

                #37
                Re: Gridiron Champions Has a Release Date, College Football Returns in 2020

                Originally posted by CujoMatty
                What you just said CM hooe is my point. Steam puts the liability on the user and the user is violating the terms of service. But you can still download the violating files. Give me all the legal jargon in the world but McDonald’s isn’t suing anyone, could they? According to our legal contributor the answer is a resounding yes. Quite frankly I believe that but It’s just simply not very likely. IMO. *Why I only read about this whenever NCAA games are brought up makes zero sense to me. OOTP has add on central. PES is the worst offender. MLB the Show you can make player likeness *and share in the vault that has been proven by the Obannon case to be a no no. *All big ant sports games. That’s only a few. So I guess we could argue for days of whether or not there could be liability issues but I’m just not seeing it. *I

                ill let it go now and honestly I did learn some things from this so thanks for the discussion.
                McDonalds COULD sue anybody and everybody who uses their IP. But they don't due to not knowing about it, to put it simply, like T4VERTS said. Then it all comes down to whether you (company whose rights are being infringed upon) think it's worthwhile or not. Think of it like these tattoo in video games cases. For the artist it's worthwhile because they probably aren't raking in the dough everyday. So a couple hundred thousand dollars is worthwhile to them. But for McDonalds a 2.666 billion dollar company is it worthwhile for them to waste months or years in court to gain an extra 200K or what the damage payout would be?
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                • T4VERTS
                  MVP
                  • Jan 2011
                  • 1153

                  #38
                  Re: Gridiron Champions Has a Release Date, College Football Returns in 2020

                  Originally posted by CujoMatty
                  What you just said CM hooe is my point. Steam puts the liability on the user and the user is violating the terms of service. But you can still download the violating files. Give me all the legal jargon in the world but McDonald’s isn’t suing anyone, could they? According to our legal contributor the answer is a resounding yes. Quite frankly I believe that but It’s just simply not very likely. IMO. *Why I only read about this whenever NCAA games are brought up makes zero sense to me. OOTP has add on central. PES is the worst offender. MLB the Show you can make player likeness *and share in the vault that has been proven by the Obannon case to be a no no. *All big ant sports games. That’s only a few. So I guess we could argue for days of whether or not there could be liability issues but I’m just not seeing it. *I

                  ill let it go now and honestly I did learn some things from this so thanks for the discussion.
                  Biggest differentiation comes down to the Napster case.They question that is asked will be "what is the overwhelming use of the function for?". In most those cases it has a legit non infringing use, IMV has positioned there customization function for the purpose of skirting copyright laws. That is there downfall.

                  It is a complex issue with multiple prongs to it, but to put it simply there are really a lot of reasons why this is different than other instance. As I said earlier though, this is more of an example of why I don't think it'll ever be made more so than what will happen if they do really is moot. Their release about funding is misleading in itself because all it really days is they got a company who thinks they can help them raise 10 million not that they have or are close at all to doing so. This look a lot like what you see from pink sheet stocks, lots of PR's about plans but little to show.
                  Last edited by T4VERTS; 04-26-2018, 01:15 PM.
                  Follow me on Twitter @T4Verts

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                  • crques
                    All Star
                    • Apr 2004
                    • 5047

                    #39
                    Re: Gridiron Champions Has a Release Date, College Football Returns in 2020

                    I'm definitely intrigued by the game, but I'm not going to get myself overly excited. At this point we've seen some screenshots, but we don't know much more about the game. We've all grown accustomed to the EA NCAA series and all the memories it brought, but this is a completely different game and has no affiliation whatsoever to that series. Having a college football game again sounds great, but we really don't know what we are getting. I will feel better once we starting getting more info and game play footage. Until then I'm going to try to keep an even keel mindset about the game and hope for the best.

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                    • Unlucky 13
                      MVP
                      • Apr 2009
                      • 1707

                      #40
                      Re: Gridiron Champions Has a Release Date, College Football Returns in 2020

                      So, wait. Is it technically illegal for me to spend all my own time using a system to recreate the real world of college football from scratch, if I so see fit?

                      For my own personal use and enjoyment, sharing it with no one?
                      Anyone who claims to be a fan of two teams in the same pro sport is actually a fan of none.

                      Comment

                      • kehlis
                        Moderator
                        • Jul 2008
                        • 27738

                        #41
                        Re: Gridiron Champions Has a Release Date, College Football Returns in 2020

                        Originally posted by Unlucky 13
                        So, wait. Is it technically illegal for me to spend all my own time using a system to recreate the real world of college football from scratch, if I so see fit?

                        For my own personal use and enjoyment, sharing it with no one?
                        There are others that can speak much more to this than I can but I believe the most important trigger in copyright infringement is tied to profit.

                        So if you are utilizing tools you purchased to re-create a copyrighted material for you own personal use, you are safe but the entity you purchased those tools from could be at risk.

                        If you then turn around and use your creation and use it to make a profit of any sort, you would then expose yourself.


                        Again, this is just my very, very, very basic understanding of it and there are others who can better speak to it.

                        But if I take a piece of paper out and draw a picture of my favorite NFL team to hang on my wall, I think I'm safe from any form of litigation.

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                        • T4VERTS
                          MVP
                          • Jan 2011
                          • 1153

                          #42
                          Re: Gridiron Champions Has a Release Date, College Football Returns in 2020

                          Originally posted by Unlucky 13
                          So, wait. Is it technically illegal for me to spend all my own time using a system to recreate the real world of college football from scratch, if I so see fit?

                          For my own personal use and enjoyment, sharing it with no one?
                          Did you use trademarked logos for jerseys, stadiums, etc? If so, then technically yes as you did not pay to use them. It's easy to think you'd need to profit from it but in reality by stealing their IP you are avoiding paying them for your own personal use. This is kind of the crux of their infringement with the customization. The are making money by providing you with the means to commit infringement.
                          Last edited by T4VERTS; 04-27-2018, 06:19 AM.
                          Follow me on Twitter @T4Verts

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                          • thescoop
                            MVP
                            • Jan 2006
                            • 1288

                            #43
                            Re: Gridiron Champions Has a Release Date, College Football Returns in 2020

                            I think one of the biggest questions is will this game be big enough for the NCAA to even go after. For one, I think they are currently watching this game with a very curious eye. And I don't think that curious eye is for a lawsuit, but more for a way to get back in the Video game world. If a game without a license is truly successful, I can see them wanting to get the license back out there, either with these guys or someone else.

                            I also see EA watching as they consider going generic route and decided against it. I get a lot of the discussion about a legal gray area and don't disagree with some of what has been said. But what it really comes down to is if the NCAA views them as a threat to their money or not. If they don't, they might just be willing to let things go without much a care. If they do, a lawsuit will happen and then things get interesting.
                            Check out my updated 2017 blog on building a high school football video game:
                            http://forums.operationsports.com/th...ame-revisited/

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                            • T4VERTS
                              MVP
                              • Jan 2011
                              • 1153

                              #44
                              Re: Gridiron Champions Has a Release Date, College Football Returns in 2020

                              Originally posted by thescoop
                              I think one of the biggest questions is will this game be big enough for the NCAA to even go after. For one, I think they are currently watching this game with a very curious eye. And I don't think that curious eye is for a lawsuit, but more for a way to get back in the Video game world. If a game without a license is truly successful, I can see them wanting to get the license back out there, either with these guys or someone else.

                              I also see EA watching as they consider going generic route and decided against it. I get a lot of the discussion about a legal gray area and don't disagree with some of what has been said. But what it really comes down to is if the NCAA views them as a threat to their money or not. If they don't, they might just be willing to let things go without much a care. If they do, a lawsuit will happen and then things get interesting.
                              Here is the problem with trademarks and copyrights, if you don't vigorously defend your IP you actually lose it into the public domain, which has happened many times in history. If they know about it (NCAA/School) they will defend their IP and follow the proper steps of cease and desist followed by suit if not remedied.
                              Follow me on Twitter @T4Verts

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                              • thescoop
                                MVP
                                • Jan 2006
                                • 1288

                                #45
                                Re: Gridiron Champions Has a Release Date, College Football Returns in 2020

                                Originally posted by T4VERTS
                                Here is the problem with trademarks and copyrights, if you don't vigorously defend your IP you actually lose it into the public domain, which has happened many times in history. If they know about it (NCAA/School) they will defend their IP and follow the proper steps of cease and desist followed by suit if not remedied.
                                I don't see this being the case here though at all. I get what you're saying, but this isn't a case of them "stealing" their IP. Now, if they want to sue and make it a stink they could. But I also am not sure they need to do so to "defend their IP."

                                One of my friends is a corp lawyer. He said he doesn't view this to be a huge issue unless it is proven they are using the trademarks to make money. But he did say he'd have to look more into it but wasn't sure it would be large enough for the NCAA (or the schools) to chase.
                                Check out my updated 2017 blog on building a high school football video game:
                                http://forums.operationsports.com/th...ame-revisited/

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