Backbreaker Behind the Scenes - Dev Diary 3: Down in the Trenches (IGN)

[turftickler]

Re: Backbreaker Behind the Scenes - Dev Diary 3: Down in the Trenches (IGN)

so there wont be a traditional camera angle

i luv everything about the game besides that camera angle

they could atleast give us the option to switch back and forth

jus one mandated angle sux

Keep thinking to yourself that it is a new way to play a whole game, but it is the right way. The overhead/blimp view and/or traditional football game cameras have spoiled us and that is the #1 reason I say current football games are arcade. Our nature is to want more control and power over any given situation, which is why some people are so hung up on such a minor issue.

The gameplay will be rock solid. Basically, we went into the store to buy a Ford Focus and came out with a Mercedes Benz for the same price.

[shavane]

Re: Backbreaker Behind the Scenes - Dev Diary 3: Down in the Trenches (IGN)

Camera angle, camera angle. How can anyone not be stoked about this camera angle. I admit its radical and jarring but only because we are so used to the Madden view. I like the challenge of actually being in the pocket and trying to see Wrs over my linemans heads. I like the idea of actually feeling like your running through traffic or scraping and filling a hole.

I play Madden everyday and nothing I've ever seen is remotely close to what I've seen in BBs vids. The fact that the alpha builds are superior to Madden/2k is ridiculous. Even if there is glitchy gameplay issues or unrealistic things at times its still going to be 5 times better than Madden because Madden is one big glitch fest. Add the customization and after we all create our NFL teams there won't be any turning back.

I basically break it down like this Madden and even 2k feels like I'm playing a football video game. BB almost makes you feel like your in the game and it actually looks next gen.

[strawberryshortcake]

Re: Backbreaker Behind the Scenes - Dev Diary 3: Down in the Trenches (IGN)

The game was designed around the 3rd person camera. It would probably take at the very least a month to get an okay traditional camera. Remember it took like two months to get the broadcast camera into Madden 10 because all the things that change when the angle changes. But thats EA and this is NM...

<link rel="File-List" href="file:///C:%5CDOCUME%7E1%5Cpharmlab%5CLOCALS%7E1%5CTemp%5Cm sohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml"><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--><style> <!-- /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {mso-style-parent:""; margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";} @page Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in; mso-header-margin:.5in; mso-footer-margin:.5in; mso-paper-source:0;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> </style><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman";} </style> <![endif]--> I never quite understood the argument of “the game [backbreaker] was designed around the 3^rd person camera,” and therefore we cannot include the traditional camera view. I really don’t buy it. It’s not as if the game of “football” changes when someone watches from the nose bleed section, from a blimp, on the side lines, or from the comfort of their home. “Football” is “football.” A football catch is a football catch. A fumble is a fumble. An interception is an interception. A touchdown is a touchdown. A tackle is a tackle regardless of camera angle.
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</o>My assumption: Team NaturalMotion designed the elements of football not based on “3^rd person camera” but simply designed it based on “football.” And if they wanted to use the traditional camera (instead of 3^rd person camera), they could certainly have done so. Plus, backbreaker actually has traditional sky-view camera before the snap. Would it truly be that difficult to keep it default to sky-view since it's already available? (Note: I personally love the Backbreaker 3rd person camera. It's my favorite thing about Backbreaker right now).
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It’s certainly feasible if NaturalMotion wanted to implement it. However in doing so, backbreaker would simply have been another traditional football video game but with the added touch of Euphoria and NaturalMotion technology, Endorphin, Morpheme. We would simply be playing traditional football all over again—Euphoria on the fly tackle alone does not equal football. <o></o>
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</o>Further reasons for why I don’t believe Backbreaker was simply designed with 3^rd person camera in mind. When designing anything artistic, you do need to get up close and personal, zoom in on your project to get the full on details, even if the object is insignificant (like shoe laces, etc.) Games require the graphic designer to zoom in on the character models, surroundings environments to truly bring it to life, and accurately depict it. Disney, Pixar, Dreamworks animation inclusive requires the artist to work up close and personal with his/her character models. The racing sports video game Gran Turismo 5 requires the graphic artist to work in zoom-in mode to properly flesh out all the microscopic details. Think about “replay mode” for sports video games. One can’t fully appreciate the intricate details of facial features, uniform textures, including animation until one zooms-in.
<o>
</o>This is also an unfortunate side effect for Backbreaker. The 3^rd person camera will magnify Backbreaker flaws (e.g. artificial intelligence, robotic movements, fluidity, character movement, kinesiology [human kinetics; the science of human movements], QB, OL/DL, WR/DB interactions). This is why I would rather have team NaturalMotion add extra time to their development cycle to truly create a powerhouse in the sports video game market. Backbreaker needs to be great. I love the challenge this 3^rd person camera angle presents. My biggest concerns are the artificial intelligence, OL/DL, WR/DB interactions, actually feeling the “DL pass rush pressure,” lack of true football pocket, lack of aggressive pass rush, and robotic animation, etc. compared to real life.

My take on backbreaker camera: I love it.

It brings you closer to the field. It better replicates the action on the field. I completely welcome it. It brings video game football to life. It should keep your heart pounding if done properly with on-the-field sounds.

Plus, as we all know, there will be no booth commentary. This basically means the SOUNDS of the GAME will be crucial. NaturalMotion needs to create something absolutely spectacular. I need to feel like I am in the stadium with 50,000 plus screaming, roaring, both loving and hating fans. (Side Note: Record sounds from a soccer stadium or a real live football stadium if you must)

Backbreaker needs to evoke EMOTIONS.

The added level of difficulty involving the camera will hopefully prevent “arcade scores” at will. Football is also not an easy sport. It is suppose to be challenging. The one thing I would LOVE for team NaturalMotion to include for Pro Mode would be “true user controlled QB throwing distance” to add that extra level of difficulty, which would actually allow the QB to “lead’ his intended receiver.
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http://www.operationsports.com/forums/2040827401-post11.html<o>
</o>...snippet
4. Quarterback attributes. Will flicking the right stick up all the way allow the QB to throw the ball maximum distance dictated by QB's attributes (e.g. maximum QB throwing distance 60, 70 yards, etc.) Or is the right stick an all-or-nothing effect where QB throw distance would only be dictated by the location of the receiver from the line of scrimmage.
-If QB can only throw a maximum of 60 yards, will flicking the right stick up all the way allow him to throw the football the full 60 yards?
-Will flicking the right stick up half way only, allow the QB to throw the ball 30 yards only?
-Will flicking the right stick up just a little bit allow the QB to throw the ball 5 yards only?
....snippet

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i love the last play of that whole Vid where the rb takes the ball and sees the end zone and just dives and right when he hits the line he gets smacked by another diving defender. i love the approach. but i wish we could have an option to put it where we can have the traditional camera view.

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so there wont be a traditional camera angle, i luv everything about the game besides that camera angle
they could atleast give us the option to switch back and forth
jus one mandated angle sux

I definitely think the camera view will be a winner in the long run. I remember how much less immersed I felt playing M10 at first after stopping APF. APF's camera was just a bit closer to the screen than M10. Even that small change made it feel less immersive. Imagine being ON the field! This is going to be hardcore intense!

Not me, Im done with Maddens blimp cams. I dont need to see every player on the field at once, thats just not football, thats arcade. In Madden, every qb has 500% awareness because of the blimp cam. As far as the feeling of a rush on a qb, etc, its more hearing footsteps then a feeling. This could easily be put in the game as well. They use surround effects in many games, and it always works well to let you know where the enemy(in this case defender) is and at what distance(softer to louder). For those without surround, I think it may even be better. How cool to get rocked with a sack you actually didnt see coming....Just like in real life!

camera angle is the biggest thing that ruins this game for me. I like to be able to see whats going on and see things down field, ive never been a fan of that close to the field camera in any game because you can't see everything. And those that will try to fire back and say you can't see everything in real life, you're right, but you can also feel things around you in real life so you can feel when a DE is bearing down on you or that a CB is coming hard off the outside. You can't get that feeling in a game so you need to be able to see it or else you're blind.

Camera is the biggest turnoff for me.

To be honest, as of right now (and have always been) backbreaker's camera is the biggest turn-on for me. I still question the artificial intelligence, player awareness and player-player interactions (OL/DL, WR/DB, QB, etc.) and how closely they mimic real life, real football. And whether team NaturalMotion can tune the player's movement to be more fluid and life-like. And whether team NaturalMotion can polish and fine tune the artificial intelligence.


Traditional Camera vs. Backbreaker Camera<o></o>
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Camera angle, camera angle. How can anyone not be stoked about this camera angle. I admit its radical and jarring but only because we are so used to the Madden view. I like the challenge of actually being in the pocket and trying to see Wrs over my linemans heads. I like the idea of actually feeling like your running through traffic or scraping and filling a hole.

I play Madden everyday and nothing I've ever seen is remotely close to what I've seen in BBs vids. The fact that the alpha builds are superior to Madden/2k is ridiculous. Even if there is glitchy gameplay issues or unrealistic things at times its still going to be 5 times better than Madden because Madden is one big glitch fest. Add the customization and after we all create our NFL teams there won't be any turning back.

I basically break it down like this Madden and even 2k feels like I'm playing a football video game. BB almost makes you feel like your in the game and it actually looks next gen.

I will certainly not go so far as to say the alpha build or even Backbreaker is superior to 2k (NFL2k5 or APF2k8). As of right now, APF2k8 is still number one in terms of football video games in my books/in my opinion. It is still far superior. The dominant reason being APF2k8 has better player movements. APF2k8 is simply fluid, life-like. Backbreaker is still fairly robotic when compared to real life.

OL/DL interaction, WR/DB interaction, QB movements, animation, and player awareness is still better expressed in APF2k8.

APF2k8 blocking and pass rushing has "purpose."
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[Gort77]

Re: Backbreaker Behind the Scenes - Dev Diary 3: Down in the Trenches (IGN)

Actually BB was designed around the 3rd person camera. If you watch the Dev Diaries, especially Dev Diary #3, they mention how the game was designed from the ground up around the 3rd person camera.

[kjcheezhead]

Re: Backbreaker Behind the Scenes - Dev Diary 3: Down in the Trenches (IGN)

Great post Strawberry. When you see the 2 cameras side by side, you really see how much more "in the game" it gets you. I love BB's camera and have since day 1. I can see what they mean when they say the blimp cam wouldn't work for them tho. Gamers try to work out angles for "blimp view throws" when they play with a traditional camera. It's harder to recreate a lob pass over a defender on the traditional camera. Rob actually touches on this in the latest dev diary.

I gotta agree with your blocking assessment as well. Backbreaker's blocking is very "madden-like" and that's not a compliment. It looks stiff and robotic and your right, magnifying it probably makes it much more noticeable. It's just no where near the caliber that 2ks game offered. That said, I've played Madden games for years with this caliber blocking or worse (since madden guys spin in circles occasionally) so I can live with it in BB... for it's first try at least.

[o Mass Murda o]

Re: Backbreaker Behind the Scenes - Dev Diary 3: Down in the Trenches (IGN)

man this camera is so sweet....its just like gears of war. thats what gave gears its "swag". it felt really "in your face" and different from other 3rd person shooters. there was literally no scarier feeling than being huddled up against a wall or aimlessly running and have a guy come outta your blindside and whack u in the head or shotty u to pieces while u never saw it coming. this is what football has needed for so long. a close up feeling of the pace and action of the game.

for the ones who cant get over it and wont buy based off the camera, i feel bad for you. ive been playing madden every yr since the one on genesis. after my 18yrs of playing madden this way, i still have no problem switching to this new perspective. i welcome it and what it will do to legitimize the QB position. no gimmicks, just football iq and reaction to be a good QB. no more god mode and seeing everything and always or 90% of the time seeing the best read. blindsides and primary and secondary reads are gonna actually mean something.

[SouthernBrick]

Re: Backbreaker Behind the Scenes - Dev Diary 3: Down in the Trenches (IGN)

Great post Strawberry. When you see the 2 cameras side by side, you really see how much more "in the game" it gets you. I love BB's camera and have since day 1. I can see what they mean when they say the blimp cam wouldn't work for them tho. Gamers try to work out angles for "blimp view throws" when they play with a traditional camera. It's harder to recreate a lob pass over a defender on the traditional camera. Rob actually touches on this in the latest dev diary.

I gotta agree with your blocking assessment as well. Backbreaker's blocking is very "madden-like" and that's not a compliment. It looks stiff and robotic and your right, magnifying it probably makes it much more noticeable. It's just no where near the caliber that 2ks game offered. That said, I've played Madden games for years with this caliber blocking or worse (since madden guys spin in circles occasionally) so I can live with it in BB... for it's first try at least.

I agree. Great comparison on the pictures also.

[CreatineKasey]

Re: Backbreaker Behind the Scenes - Dev Diary 3: Down in the Trenches (IGN)

Nice work, Strawberryshortcake.

I do disagree about the 3rd person camera magnifying AI flaws. I think they will hide them. When you play in "God view" you see each and every player every single play and the corresponding flaw. Third person view should kind of take the attention away from that stuff.

[LaW97]

Re: Backbreaker Behind the Scenes - Dev Diary 3: Down in the Trenches (IGN)

whoa

what game was in that last video??? i have never heard commentary like that.

that must be user made or something

[LaW97]

Re: Backbreaker Behind the Scenes - Dev Diary 3: Down in the Trenches (IGN)

but umm,
thinkin about playin QB in BB... would we have to have a QB that is atleast 6'5 to see the field properly???

if were only gonna get these behind the back camera angles then how is a 6'2 QB gonna see over 6'6 o-lineman if the camera is so low

[Afrikan]

Re: Backbreaker Behind the Scenes - Dev Diary 3: Down in the Trenches (IGN)

whoa

what game was in that last video??? i have never heard commentary like that.

that must be user made or something

haha....that guy just had the real life 49ers vs Packers game in the background playing for the audio part...and just setup a play to where he threw a deep TD pass...like the one in the real game......

and overall just did a good job of editing everything together..haha.

[elgreazy1]

Re: developer diary 3

It's so weird hearing English accents talking (real) football.

[JayBee74]

Re: Backbreaker Behind the Scenes - Dev Diary 3: Down in the Trenches (IGN)

but umm,
thinkin about playin QB in BB... would we have to have a QB that is atleast 6'5 to see the field properly???

if were only gonna get these behind the back camera angles then how is a 6'2 QB gonna see over 6'6 o-lineman if the camera is so low

How does a 6'2 QB see over 6'6 o-linemen in the NFL?

[booker21]

Re: Backbreaker Behind the Scenes - Dev Diary 3: Down in the Trenches (IGN)

there are no heights on BB.
All players are the same height.

[JayBee74]

Re: Backbreaker Behind the Scenes - Dev Diary 3: Down in the Trenches (IGN)

there are no heights on BB.
All players are the same height.

I didn't realize that-different weights, but the same height.
"There is no crying in baseball"
"There are no heights in Backbreaker"