Super Bowl 44 - The Super, Way TOO-Early Prediction: Vikings/Patriots

[CW McGraw]

Re: Super Bowl 44 - The Super, Way TOO-Early Prediction: Vikings/Patriots

Fisher has been VASTLY overrated. He's had 6 (?) winning seasons in 15 years. All he's managed to do is not suck long enough to get fired. The only reason he could be considered a top 5 active head coach is that 2/3 of the leagues coaches have less than 2 years of experience.

I agree with everything Shotgun Styles has said about the Titans. If the Dolphins are supposed to be a fraud team that will come crashing down this season, then the Titans have to be in much deeper trouble.

[HealyMonster]

Re: Super Bowl 44 - The Super, Way TOO-Early Prediction: Vikings/Patriots

Fisher has been VASTLY overrated. He's had 6 (?) winning seasons in 15 years. All he's managed to do is not suck long enough to get fired. The only reason he could be considered a top 5 active head coach is that 2/3 of the leagues coaches have less than 2 years of experience.

I agree with everything Shotgun Styles has said about the Titans. If the Dolphins are supposed to be a fraud team that will come crashing down this season, then the Titans have to be in much deeper trouble.

wait a minute, you guys go 1-15 and then 11-5 and someone said your going to come crashing down, and your saying the Titans are a better candidate to come crashing down after going 13-3, and the year before that going 10-6?

And check your stats, they have only had 3 losing seasons under fisher and lets look 2 years they had no home stadium, they had to cut basically the entire roster over the course of 2 seasons.

I have nothing bad to say about the Dolphins bro, I could care less how you guys do. But you need to come out of fantasy land if you want to start comparing these 2 teams going into the 2009 season.

[CW McGraw]

Re: Super Bowl 44 - The Super, Way TOO-Early Prediction: Vikings/Patriots

You lost your best defensive player, have no QB,and lost your DC and think you're doing great. And I need come out of fantasy land?

At the very least, the Dolphins have only added more good players. The Fins aren't winning the AFC East again, but they aren't going to have as drastic change in wins from 2008 to 2009 as the Titans.

I don't need to check my stats. I said the Titans only have had 6 winning seasons under Fisher and they have: 1999, 2000, 2002, 2003, 2007, 2008.

[HealyMonster]

Re: Super Bowl 44 - The Super, Way TOO-Early Prediction: Vikings/Patriots

You lost your best defensive player, have no QB,and lost your DC and think you're doing great. And I need come out of fantasy land?

At the very least, the Dolphins have only added more good players. The Fins aren't winning the AFC East again, but they aren't going to have as drastic change in wins from 2008 to 2009 as the Titans.

I don't need to check my stats. I said the Titans only have had 6 winning seasons under Fisher and they have: 1999, 2000, 2002, 2003, 2007, 2008.

your reaching bro. Losing a DC isnt much when you replace him with a guy who he groomed and was on the same coaching staff with. Last I checked collins led the team to a 13-3 record last year. I know im more confident with my qb going into this season that 60 or 70% of the league.

And we lost haynesworth. You watch too much espn my man. You obviously have blinders on or something but whatever, its cool. Enjoy your dolphins man. We play you this year, I can wait. Im marking my calender.

[mKoz26]

Re: Super Bowl 44 - The Super, Way TOO-Early Prediction: Vikings/Patriots

your reaching bro. Losing a DC isnt much when you replace him with a guy who he groomed and was on the same coaching staff with. Last I checked collins led the team to a 13-3 record last year. I know im more confident with my qb going into this season that 60 or 70% of the league.

Didn't Rex Grossman "lead" the Bears to a 13-3 record in 2006? Does that make him an NFL QB?

[shotgun styles]

Re: Super Bowl 44 - The Super, Way TOO-Early Prediction: Vikings/Patriots

Didn't Rex Grossman "lead" the Bears to a 13-3 record in 2006? Does that make him an NFL QB?

Dude, don't get me started on QBs riding good teams to the Superbowl.

Yeah, I'm looking at you Tom Brady, with your overrated self.

[SPTO]

Re: Super Bowl 44 - The Super, Way TOO-Early Prediction: Vikings/Patriots

Dude, don't get me started on QBs riding good teams to the Superbowl.

Yeah, I'm looking at you Tom Brady, with your overrated self.

PUH-leeze, Brady has more talent in his little finger then Grossman and David Woodley COMBINED. Those two absolutely rode good teams to the SB.

[wwharton]

Re: Super Bowl 44 - The Super, Way TOO-Early Prediction: Vikings/Patriots

Honestly, I have respect for both but how can someone call Brady overrated for his success and not say the same about Big Ben? So mr. Steelers fan, are you really saying that Ben doesn't fall in the same boat?

[shotgun styles]

Re: Super Bowl 44 - The Super, Way TOO-Early Prediction: Vikings/Patriots

PUH-leeze, Brady has more talent in his little finger then Grossman and David Woodley COMBINED. Those two absolutely rode good teams to the SB.

We really need to define "talent" and "skills".

Talent is what you are born with, skills are learned. The only talent you need to play QB is the ability to throw a spiral at least 50 yards. EVERYTHING ELSE can be learned.

Skills are things that can be taught and learned. The two most important skills are difficult to master: accuracy and anticipation.

Brady is far more skilled than Grossman, but he isn't more talented. Some of that is coaching, some of that is character. Brady focused on his accuracy and anticipation religiously because he knew he was an inferior talent.

Grossman on the other hand, having more confidence in his arm (which is indeed stronger than Brady's, though that isn't saying much), tried to go the gunslinger route. He failed because gunslingers are only good if they are accurate, and Grossman isn't.

[SPTO]

Re: Super Bowl 44 - The Super, Way TOO-Early Prediction: Vikings/Patriots

We really need to define "talent" and "skills".

Thanks for over-analyzing but at least you got what I was saying. I'm also VERY interested to see how you answer Wwharton about Big Ben. Especially that first SB.

[shotgun styles]

Re: Super Bowl 44 - The Super, Way TOO-Early Prediction: Vikings/Patriots

Thanks for over-analyzing but at least you got what I was saying. I'm also VERY interested to see how you answer Wwharton about Big Ben. Especially that first SB.

Post the quote, I may have missed it.

[SPTO]

Re: Super Bowl 44 - The Super, Way TOO-Early Prediction: Vikings/Patriots

Here you go Shotgun Styles.

Honestly, I have respect for both but how can someone call Brady overrated for his success and not say the same about Big Ben? So mr. Steelers fan, are you really saying that Ben doesn't fall in the same boat?

[shotgun styles]

Re: Super Bowl 44 - The Super, Way TOO-Early Prediction: Vikings/Patriots

Here you go Shotgun Styles.

That's easy: being overrated is not about what YOU DO, it's about how you are PERCEIVED BY OTHERS.

The media does not love Ben like they love Tom in large part because he looks like the Cro-magnon man, not like an underwear model. Also, the Steelers are a notoriously unglamorous team.

Sports writers and the NFL have heaped all the credit for the Pats' success on Brady. If you watch the film of those Superbowl seasons, he's just a cog in the machine. He does his part, yes, but he is by no means THE REASON for that team winning 3 rings. He was A reason, not THE reason.

Brady is good for business. He's a good looking white athlete who plays the money position and married a supermodel. That sells tickets in America the same way a Black super-athlete playing QB sold tickets in Atlanta.

Being overrated is about your image, not your performance. You see this with Tim Tebow as well, although for me it's less offensive because Tebow actually is a great athlete, not just a marginally talented product of the system like Brady.

[wwharton]

Re: Super Bowl 44 - The Super, Way TOO-Early Prediction: Vikings/Patriots

Well in all that you didn't put an answer. But I can assume from that big work around that you're saying that Ben's not overrated. I remember them ready to put him in the HOF after the first SB and some rate him as the second best QB in the league now, so I don't know where you're getting the idea that he's not "perceived" to be great. Brady has more rings and better stats every year, so there's good reason he's perceived better than Ben and pretty much anybody else. But we're not talking about what's "perceived" anyway. Ben is widely considered a top 5 NFL QB, if not top 3. Do you think he's overrated? I mean you make it seem like Brady is lucky to crack the top 10 so no matter how you spin it, either you think Ben is overrated too or you're saying that Ben is better than Brady.

[shotgun styles]

Re: Super Bowl 44 - The Super, Way TOO-Early Prediction: Vikings/Patriots

Well in all that you didn't put an answer. But I can assume from that big work around that you're saying that Ben's not overrated. I remember them ready to put him in the HOF after the first SB and some rate him as the second best QB in the league now, so I don't know where you're getting the idea that he's not "perceived" to be great. Brady has more rings and better stats every year, so there's good reason he's perceived better than Ben and pretty much anybody else. But we're not talking about what's "perceived" anyway. Ben is widely considered a top 5 NFL QB, if not top 3. Do you think he's overrated? I mean you make it seem like Brady is lucky to crack the top 10 so no matter how you spin it, either you think Ben is overrated too or you're saying that Ben is better than Brady.

The term "overrated" means exactly that: they are rated higher than they're play indicates. That is perception and subjective value analysis.

My value system differs from yours. I think ALL NFL QBs are overrated. They get too much credit for wins and they're stats are inflated due to the unfair passing rules.

So by my logic Ben is overrated just by BEING AN NFL QUARTERBACK. However, compared to Tom Brady who has reached god-like status in the sports media, Ben is not nearly AS overrated.

I don't dislike Manning and Brady. I like them both as people and as good solid role models. But I think if the NFL passing rules were fair neither would be able to function on a football field, much less be any good.

Plainly stated Manning and Brady are not real athletes. They are pool players with jersey numbers. They don't really deserve to be on the field with actual world class athletes like Brian Urlacher and Ed Reed. Given a level playing field Manning and Brady would be killed in the NFL. Their success is entirely artificial, and forcing great athletes like Reed and Urlacher to compete against players who are allowed to cheat degrades this game and is an insult to the players who sacrificed to make it America's game.

So the answer is YES BEN IS OVERRATED. Just not as much as Brady. Happy now?