who will win the AFC west!

[bkrich83]

Re: who will win the AFC west!

I don't know when getting rid of your best players and drafting projects in the first round was considered heading in the right direction. When the Raiders did it, we were called dysfunctional. I guess when Denver does it, it's heading in the right direction.

Getting rid of Marshall was addition by subtraction. They are cleaning house and have been making smart decisions.

Besides do you really want to compare the Raiders draft history recently to that of the Broncos? I seriously, outside of Detroit who has drafted worse than Oakland over the past 6 years?

[ZM Punk]

Re: who will win the AFC west!

I don't know who has been telling you "this is the Raiders year" the last 5 or 6 years, but I wouldn't listen to that person for my football news anymore. Also, contrary to what you think, a lot of people(NFL analysts included) think the Raiders got a lot better this offseason. I don't think it's as much of a stretch to pick them as you think it is.



I don't know when getting rid of your best players and drafting projects in the first round was considered heading in the right direction. When the Raiders did it, we were called dysfunctional. I guess when Denver does it, it's heading in the right direction.

When your best players are head cases then I think you should dump them. Those type of guys might help you on the field, but off of the field they do a lot of damage.

Al Davis may want to try that some day.

[kehlis]

Re: who will win the AFC west!

I think that both the Chargers and the Broncos are headed in the wrong direction because both teams have lost key players or they have key players very unhappy. I know for a fact that Brandon Marshall was a big big part in at least 3 of the Broncos wins. Now he's gone. In SD, Vincent Jackson is rumored to be on his way out and McNeil is upset. 2 very key players for that offense.

So basically you watch ESPN and only see the big moves?

I'm not saying the Broncos are going to win the division at all, but to say they are headed the wrong direction is completely misguided and pretty much shows you haven't see anything they have done other than trade Marshall and draft Tebow.

[splff3000]

Re: who will win the AFC west!

It was right here by the same people.

There's a difference between getting better (which was the only way they could go) and getting good enough to win the division.

NFL analysts? LOL. Ok.

Who has said that here? I have not seen one person say anything like that on these boards for the last few years and, trust me, I look all the time lol. In fact, I've gotten laughed off the boards anytime I even insinuated that we'll be good so I don't know who you saw that was saying, "this year is there year" for the last few years. As far as being good enough to win the division, you don't know that they aren't. They have made a lot of changes. Nobody thought the Saints were good enough to win the division in 2007 when they got Drew Brees but they did. I'm not saying that we're gonna be the 2007 Saints, but it COULD happen.

Getting rid of Marshall was addition by subtraction. They are cleaning house and have been making smart decisions.

Besides do you really want to compare the Raiders draft history recently to that of the Broncos? I seriously, outside of Detroit who has drafted worse than Oakland over the past 6 years?

If you noticed my post, I said when the Raiders did the things the Broncos are doing we were called dysfunctional. I didn't say the Raiders never drafted bad. Also, if you think because they got rid of Marshall, the Broncos got better this year then I don't know what to say. Yeah it may be peaceful in the locker room, but that doesn't mean they're a better team without him. You'll see.

When your best players are head cases then I think you should dump them. Those type of guys might help you on the field, but off of the field they do a lot of damage.

Al Davis may want to try that some day.

Al Davis has done that plenty of times. See Randy Moss. Just like with Marshall, we weren't better because we dumped Randy Moss. Things were just more peaceful.

So basically you watch ESPN and only see the big moves?

I'm not saying the Broncos are going to win the division at all, but to say they are headed the wrong direction is completely misguided and pretty much shows you haven't see anything they have done other than trade Marshall and draft Tebow.

Actually I hardly ever watch ESPN, for football news anyway, for just the reason that you mentioned. They only follow big name movement. I watch NFL Network because they show ALL the movement in the NFL. I just used Marshall and Tebow as examples. In 2 years the Broncos have got rid of or lost Cutler, Marshall, Scheffler, starting G Ben Hamilton, and C Casey Wiegman. I don't see any moves that they made that replace any of them. Yeah someone will replace them on the roster, but I don't think they got better at either position. They did add a few players to the defense like Jamal Williams, but he is older now as well as over half of the secondary(Bailey, Goodman, and Dawkins). In 2 years they have went from a pro bowl QB, pro bowl WR, pro bowl C, a very good(potential pro bowl) TE and a very good(potential pro bowl) G to average to slightly above average players in those same positions. That's not counting all the other starters that have been cut or not resigned. This year, if none of the Broncos rookies pan out right away they will be in for a looong season. So, yeah I'd say they're going in the wrong direction. In fact, I'd challenge anyone to prove otherwise.

EDIT: This article pretty much sums up everything that I'm trying to say. Give it a read and then come back and tell me why the Broncos aren't heading in the wrong direction.

http://walterfootball.com/offseason2010den.php

2010 Denver Broncos Offense:
It took only two years, but Josh McDaniels transformed Jay Cutler, Brandon Marshall and Tony Scheffler into Tim Tebow, Demaryius Thomas and Marquez Branson. God help the Bronco fans who decide to jump off the Rocky Mountains if Denver's season goes into the crapper.

Will it go into the crapper? If last season's finish is any indication, it most certaintly will. Denver began the year 6-0, but went just 2-8 following the bye. After scoring 22.2 points per game in the first six contests, the Broncos went on to average 19.3 points the rest of the season - a number inflated by a 44-point output at woeful Kansas City.

It's hard to imagine Denver's offense rebounding in the wake of Marshall and Scheffler leaving for Miami and Detroit, respectively. The Broncos played without those two in the season finale, and the weak-armed Kyle Orton tossed three interceptions, two of which were returned for touchdowns. Apparently, Jabar Gaffney isn't a legitimate No. 1 receiver.

McDaniels drafted Demaryius Thomas to take over that role. While Thomas can't run routes or catch the ball consistently, his weaknesses will be masked in Denver's offense. It'll be interesting to see how McDaniels plans on utilizing Thomas and Eddie Royal. Last year, McDaniels foolishly used Royal as a decoy deep threat even though he's a natural slot receiver. Will Thomas take over as the deep threat, or will he be inserted into Marshall's former role? If the latter is the case, will McDaniels once again waste away Royal's talents? Common sense suggests otherwise, but McDaniels is far from conventional.

And speaking of screwing things up, McDaniels eliminated Denver's renowned zone-blocking scheme in favor of a more traditional system. This really hurt left tackle Ryan Clady's development. Clady had a stellar rookie campaign, but was guilty of eight sacks and eight penalties in 2009.

Aside from solid right guard Chris Kuper and right tackle Ryan Harris, Clady's issues are the least of Denver's worries up front. Left guard Russ Hochstein, 33 in October, wasn't very effective last season. The center position, meanwhile, will be manned by rookie J.D. Walton. As the Bills learned last year, just because you have a highly touted rookie playing in the interior of the offensive line doesn't mean that you're going to have success there.

If the Broncos plan on snapping out of this current 2-8 funk, Knowshon Moreno will have to come up big in his sophomore campaign. Moreno is very talented, but hit a rookie wall last year. With better conditioning and a more favorable blocking scheme, Moreno should have a big 2010 season. Of course, it would help if Denver had a quarterback who would make defenses respect the pass.

2010 Denver Broncos Defense:
Talk about bad timing - the Broncos developed a solid defense the year after Josh McDaniels banished Jay Cutler and changed the offensive line's blocking scheme. Denver finished 12th in points allowed, seventh in yardage surrendered and third versus the pass.

Two players were primarily responsible for the latter ranking. Rush linebacker Elvis Dumervil, thriving in Mike Nolan's new 3-4, collected a whopping 17 sacks in 2009. Dumervil's pass-rushing presence was prominent in Denver's eight wins; 13 of his sacks came in victories, while only four occurred during the team's eight losses.

Dumervil's pressure really helped an old secondary, namely Champ Bailey who had a phenomenal season. Corner Andre' Goodman, and safeties Brian Dawkins and Renaldo Hill also played well at times, but there is some concern now with Goodman and Dawkins, who will be 32 and 35, respectively, by October. It's safe to say that neither defensive back will perform as well in 2010.

Denver's secondary also has major depth issues. The short and slow Alphonso Smith struggled last year, losing his job to the decrepit Ty Law. Smith will compete with rookies Perrish Cox and Syd'Quan Thompson for nickel duties. Cox should win the job.

Amazingly, the defensive backfield is the Broncos' strongest unit as a whole. Dumervil is arguably the top pass-rusher in the NFL, but there is no one on the other side to create any sort of havoc for opposing quarterbacks. Second-year Robert Ayers is currently penciled in as the strongside outside linebacker. Ayers is not a good fit for the 3-4; he played well against the run last season, but didn't offer anything in terms of a pass rush. He will likely be a liability in coverage this year if he has to play extensively.

The Broncos don't really have anything at inside linebacker. D.J. Williams is a dynamic talent, but he was a bit lost in his first season in the 3-4, as he was overwhelmed against the run at times. Andra Davis, who excelled in that department, is no longer with the team. Mario Haggan and Akin Ayodele will compete for Davis' old job in a battle that will have no winners.

The defensive line, quite frankly, is garbage. Nose tackle Jamal Williams is 34 and played all of 45 snaps in 2009 before suffering a season-ending triceps injury. Both defensive ends, Justin Bannan and Jarvis Green, were acquired this offseason. Bannan has been a solid reserve for the Ravens, while Green was abysmal as a starter for New England last year.

Denver's stop unit has loads of problems, and the 30.5 points per game it surrendered in the final four weeks of the 2009 campaign was no fluke. But perhaps the biggest issue is the departure of Mike Nolan. Nolan is an outstanding defensive coordinator who was let go because he couldn't mesh with McDaniels (shocker). It's unlikely that his replacement, Don Martindale, will be able to live up to what Nolan accomplished last year.

[av7]

Re: who will win the AFC west!

They weren't supposed to be 8-8 when they traded Cutler, they were said to be lucky to win 4 games. It happens every offseason, everyone has an opinion and it doesnt make it right or wrong. That's why the games are played

And for an outside example, the San Diego Padres were supposed to be garbage this year with the low payroll and amount of fairly young players but they are the top team in the NL.

[splff3000]

Re: who will win the AFC west!

They weren't supposed to be 8-8 when they traded Cutler, they were said to be lucky to win 4 games. It happens every offseason, everyone has an opinion and it doesnt make it right or wrong. That's why the games are played

And for an outside example, the San Diego Padres were supposed to be garbage this year with the low payroll and amount of fairly young players but they are the top team in the NL.

Who said that? Kyle Orton is not a scrub. He's no Jay Cutler but he's no scrub either. I thought they would finish right where they did, 2nd in the AFC west behind SD. I even thought they could be a wild card team. I've followed Kyle Orton since he was at Purdue so I know he could win with the weapons he had around him and he did for the first part of the season. Now you take some of those weapons away and that offense turns into half of what it was. All I was saying is they went from known good players to players they hope can be good. They hope Knowshon can be good for the entire season. They hope Eddie Royal can step it up with Marshall gone. They hope Thomas can come in and be good enough to be a starting WR. See where I'm going with this? You're right, everyone has their opinion. When I gave mine, people responded like I was crazy so I gave my reasons for my opinion. That's all.

[bkrich83]

Re: who will win the AFC west!

LOL at Denver's dline being garbage because Jamal Williams was hurt last year. Jamal Williams is still about as good of a 3-4 NT as there is in the game.

It's funny you mention guys like Eddie Royal, Thomas and Moreno and Orton.

You have the Raiders finishing higher than Denver but who do they have that are better than the same players on Denver's team? I am not sure anyone on the Raiders offense would even start for Denver. Or San Diego for that matter, yet you have the Raiders finishing higher than San Diego as well.

You talked about San Diego losing two players, but the Chargers roster is still significantly deeper and more talented than Oakland's even without Jackson and McNeill.

[splff3000]

Re: who will win the AFC west!

LOL at Denver's dline being garbage because Jamal Williams was hurt last year. Jamal Williams is still about as good of a 3-4 NT as there is in the game.

It's funny you mention guys like Eddie Royal, Thomas and Moreno and Orton.

You have the Raiders finishing higher than Denver but who do they have that are better than the same players on Denver's team? I am not sure anyone on the Raiders offense would even start for Denver. Or San Diego for that matter, yet you have the Raiders finishing higher than San Diego as well.

You talked about San Diego losing two players, but the Chargers roster is still significantly deeper and more talented than Oakland's even without Jackson and McNeill.

We'll find out when the season starts. No need argueing about it now.

[kehlis]

Re: who will win the AFC west!

EDIT: This article pretty much sums up everything that I'm trying to say. Give it a read and then come back and tell me why the Broncos aren't heading in the wrong direction.

Who is Walter and how does his opinion on a FANTASY website validate or strengthen yours?

I disagree with his OPINION as much as I do yours. His article doesn't do anything to sway me.

Either way you are right about one thing, there really is no use debating our unchanging opinions, they will all work out in time!

[JMD]

Re: who will win the AFC west!

Chiefs
Chargers
Raiders
Donkeys

[Kriech23]

Re: who will win the AFC west!

Chargers, but the Chiefs have a shot

[doomsday72499]

Re: who will win the AFC west!

love to see anyone but Chargers....but would see them taking it unless KC upsets....with Chargers missing players...could happen....

[ak47jared]

Re: who will win the AFC west!

This division is up for grabs because there is no great team in this division. This might be a battle of draft picks emerging and will likely be the x factor. the chargers are likely gonna win but I m pulling for my cheifs.

[Cubfan]

Re: who will win the AFC west!

Chargers 11-5
Denver 8-8
Okland 7-9
Kansas City 5-11

[Rock Chalk]

Re: who will win the AFC west!

Denver 10-6
Chargers 9-7
Kansas City 8-8
Oakland 5-11