Rivers or Vick: Who is Playing at a Higher Level?

[da ThRONe]

Re: Rivers or Vick: Who is Playing at a Higher Level?

I still don't see how this should be considered. It's not like the guy was away for any moral/religious/patriotic reason. He was away because he was a goon and that fact should not help, or hurt, his candidacy for MVP. All we should look at is this current season and what's happening inside of it.

So if we switch teams and put Rivers in Philly and Vick in SD would we even be having this conversation? The "weapons" if you can even call them that, that Rivers is playing with are just terrible. Guys that are on their last legs in the league. Rivers crew makes guys like Austin Collie look like Pro-Bowlers.

What people seem to not realise about Vick is his mobility will help any WR core. Defensives are forced to cover almost twice as long with any other QB. It's surely isnt because his o-line is great. You add that with the fact Vick has been very accurate passing the ball and yes I think Vick could get just as much out of SD as Rivers has if not more.

[fugazi]

Re: Rivers or Vick: Who is Playing at a Higher Level?

This all just reminds me of how badly I wanted Dallas to draft Rivers...

[Amoo316]

Re: Rivers or Vick: Who is Playing at a Higher Level?

What people seem to not realise about Vick is his mobility will help any WR core. Defensives are forced to cover almost twice as long with any other QB. It's surely isnt because his o-line is great. You add that with the fact Vick has been very accurate passing the ball and yes I think Vick could get just as much out of SD as Rivers has if not more.

I'm not going to tell you you're wrong because it is, afterall your opinion, but at the same time if Vick is going to get more out of the guys in SD you're telling me you don't think Rivers would be on pace for 6K yards with the keys to Andy Reid's offense and those receivers?

[da ThRONe]

Re: Rivers or Vick: Who is Playing at a Higher Level?

I'm not going to tell you you're wrong because it is, afterall your opinion, but at the same time if Vick is going to get more out of the guys in SD you're telling me you don't think Rivers would be on pace for 6K yards with the keys to Andy Reid's offense and those receivers?

Rivers is great. And if his team make the playoffs(which I dont know why this is a prerequisite for an individual award) which they most likely will. I dont have a problem with him winning. When I say get more I mean W's not stats. I think too much is made about stats. Generally if your QB is passing enough to break those kind of records there is a reason.

[snowman5607]

Re: Rivers or Vick: Who is Playing at a Higher Level?

Rivers can be in the midst of whatever he wants but until he breaks Marinos record it really doesn't matter. So AS of right now I will take Vick. Wasn't Brees on pace to break Marinos record but fell like 20yds short of it? Anythign can happen so until he breaks the record ima take the guy who is playing equally as well with more team success and actually had a game that no QB in history has ever had.

What an asinine statement. Oh just until he breaks a record over a season NO ONE has ever done before in the NFL HISTORY it doesn't matter? What a weak argument.


Give Rivers DeSean Jackson, Jeremy Maclin, and LeSean McCoy and give Vick Seyi Ajirotutu and Legedu Naanee, and Malcom Floyd and THEN see how things work out. I know this will never happen, but Rivers is working with FAR less and is still better.

[Amoo316]

Re: Rivers or Vick: Who is Playing at a Higher Level?

Rivers is great. And if his team make the playoffs(which I dont know why this is a prerequisite for an individual award) which they most likely will. I dont have a problem with him winning. When I say get more I mean W's not stats. I think too much is made about stats. Generally if your QB is passing enough to break those kind of records there is a reason.

Usually that is the case, in Rivers' instance though it's really not. They're averaging >100 yards on the ground a game, 17th in the NFL currently at 111.7. Compare that to the Peytons who are averaging 88.5 ranked 30th. The running game really just isn't suffering. The defense is playing lights out in SD and is playing well enough in Philly, top 15 in yards vs pass and top 10 vs rush that it's tough to say Rivers is doing it because of # of possessions. The only reason their record is where it is has to do with starting guys who forget they're not in college anymore and do things like catch a ball, fall down, get up untouched and drop the ball because they thought they were down.

We didn't hold Brady's 2007 numbers against him when he had Moss and Welker destroying defenses on a weekly basis and I don't think we'll hold Vick's receivers against him, he simply isn't doing as much as Rivers is doing with unarguably less. It's no knock on Vick, he's playing like a MVP candidate, no doubt about it. So far though he's only started and completed 5 games, tough to argue a case for him when you have a guy like Rivers doing what he's doing.

[da ThRONe]

Re: Rivers or Vick: Who is Playing at a Higher Level?

What an asinine statement. Oh just until he breaks a record over a season NO ONE has ever done before in the NFL HISTORY it doesn't matter? What a weak argument.


Give Rivers DeSean Jackson, Jeremy Maclin, and LeSean McCoy and give Vick Seyi Ajirotutu and Legedu Naanee, and Malcom Floyd and THEN see how things work out. I know this will never happen, but Rivers is working with FAR less and is still better.

I think his point is its not done until its done. Brees was what 20 yards shy of the record. Most importantly we missed the playoffs that year. SD will be in a dog fight for that division this year.

[tripwire]

Re: Rivers or Vick: Who is Playing at a Higher Level?

There should be a poll about how many more Vick-based threads we'll see this year.

As is, give me Rivers every day of the week.

[Amoo316]

Re: Rivers or Vick: Who is Playing at a Higher Level?

And if his team make the playoffs(which I dont know why this is a prerequisite for an individual award)

Wanted to address this individually.

It looks like this FINALLY may be changing if what happened with the baseball Cy Young voting is any indication. Hopefully the media is beginning to smarten up about these things.

[RJTurneR]

Re: Rivers or Vick: Who is Playing at a Higher Level?

Wasn't Brees on pace to break Marinos record but fell like 20yds short of it?

From my post earlier..

Rivers is on pace for 5,234 yards this season. Dan Marino holds the single season record of 5,084, meaning Rivers average of 327 yards per game could drop by 20 for the remainder of the season and he would still break the record. He’s thrown 19 touchdowns, just eight interceptions and is averaging an amazing 8.95 yards per pass attempt.

And just to add, this is my own opinion, but Rivers has, and always will be, better than Vick.

[da ThRONe]

Re: Rivers or Vick: Who is Playing at a Higher Level?

Usually that is the case, in Rivers' instance though it's really not. They're averaging >100 yards on the ground a game, 17th in the NFL currently at 111.7. Compare that to the Peytons who are averaging 88.5 ranked 30th. The running game really just isn't suffering. The defense is playing lights out in SD and is playing well enough in Philly, top 15 in yards vs pass and top 10 vs rush that it's tough to say Rivers is doing it because of # of possessions. The only reason their record is where it is has to do with starting guys who forget they're not in college anymore and do things like catch a ball, fall down, get up untouched and drop the ball because they thought they were down.

We didn't hold Brady's 2007 numbers against him when he had Moss and Welker destroying defenses on a weekly basis and I don't think we'll hold Vick's receivers against him, he simply isn't doing as much as Rivers is doing with unarguably less. It's no knock on Vick, he's playing like a MVP candidate, no doubt about it. So far though he's only started and completed 5 games, tough to argue a case for him when you have a guy like Rivers doing what he's doing.

There's still a lot of football to be played. I think the guy who wins the award will seperate himself.

[TheWatcher]

Re: Rivers or Vick: Who is Playing at a Higher Level?

Both guys are playing great with different styles of play. But when two performances are considered high level, if no Co-MVP is picked, the award tends to--fair or not--go to the guy who has the most wins... or the guy who makes the playoffs if the other didn't regardless of the final stats.

[King_B_Mack]

Re: Rivers or Vick: Who is Playing at a Higher Level?

Do people love dogs and hate Michael Vick this much? I'm not going to say he's MVP or better than Rivers or hands down the best QB this year or anything like that because the level that all these guys are playing at right now is nuts. That having been said, what kind of BS excuse is 'he's playing with all his weapons.' Are you kidding me right now? People have been worshipping at Peyton Mannings feet for the better part of a decade now because of his play and he's always playing with his full compliment of weapons or near the full cupboard until this year. When Brady was throwing record number touchdowns he was doing it with his full compliment of WRs including good Moss and something as ridiculous as this...it doesn't count cause he's playing with his full arsenal crap has not once ever come up.

If Brady or Manning were playing like Vick is right now with a healthy offense and this question was posed between one (or both of them) vs Rivers, we'd be hearing about how close the discussion is or there would be people flat out talking about how much better Manning or Brady are. However it's Vick vs Rivers and we're seeing stuff about Rivers any day of the week and take this away and that away from Vick? Why can't people ever just stick to the friggin question asked. This isn't a question of who's the MVP, who's better historically in they're career, who you'd draft with the first pick or who's going to finish with the better career numbers or whatever. The question is who's playing at a higher level RIGHT NOW in a vaccum of this season. Not last season, the season before that or next year's season, but THIS season. Rivers may just be playing at a higher level but make no mistake it's not by much if at all.

[snowman5607]

Re: Rivers or Vick: Who is Playing at a Higher Level?

I think his point is its not done until its done. Brees was what 20 yards shy of the record. Most importantly we missed the playoffs that year. SD will be in a dog fight for that division this year.

San Diego's going to win that division. They're one game out with three division games left. I don't see them NOT winning it.

Rivers is on pace to complete 65% of his passes, 38 TD passes, and break Marino's record. Say he comes up short and passes for 35 TDs and 4900 yards and they win the division. He's still not playing better?

[K-oss]

Re: Rivers or Vick: Who is Playing at a Higher Level?

You seem like you have made up your mind on this already. Vick has been amazing. You keep referencing his Monday night game, but he wasn't nearly as impressive this past week.

They would have destroyed the Giant's had his recievers not caught a case of the alligator arms.

They dropped at least 2 TD passes.