Brady, P.Manning or Roethlisberger?

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: Brady, P.Manning or Roethlisberger?

I'm glad I'm not the only one who notices that.

[Hooe]

Re: Brady, P.Manning or Roethlisberger?

Ben - 2 rings
Peyton - 1 ring

See what i did there.

I hate this argument. Completely ignores that a football team is comprised of 53 players, not one.

[MrNFL_FanIQ]

Re: Brady, P.Manning or Roethlisberger?

For those who believe in mythical stats like "OMG CLUTCHINESS!" and think only one position exists, I present to you, this article, from Pro Football Reference.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/blog/?p=8700

[Andrews85]

Re: Brady, P.Manning or Roethlisberger?

I hate this argument. Completely ignores that a football team is comprised of 53 players, not one.

You can make the same argument for MVP awards and pro bowls. Manning didn't catch the balls he threw.

[z Revis]

Re: Brady, P.Manning or Roethlisberger?

For those who believe in mythical stats like "OMG CLUTCHINESS!" and think only one position exists, I present to you, this article, from Pro Football Reference.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/blog/?p=8700

That man did some work. My only complaint is that he put Rodgers in there. 4 Playoff games? lol. Hardly enough body of work. Could say the same for guys like Brees, Rivers, Romo, etc.

Amazing job though. A lot of those numbers come as no surprise at all and only validate my beliefs on several of those QB's.

[tyler289]

Re: Brady, P.Manning or Roethlisberger?

I hate these arguments.

Each QB has their own strengths and weaknesses. In the end it doesn't matter because Ben has 2 rings already and has a chance for a 3rd, and I don't think Ben or any Steelers fan cares what people think if Ben continues to make plays like he did in the Ravens game or Jets game.

Ben has made huge plays in huge games time and time again. He plays hurt, he takes hard hits, and he always gets up.

[jeremym480]

Re: Brady, P.Manning or Roethlisberger?

For those who believe in mythical stats like "OMG CLUTCHINESS!" and think only one position exists, I present to you, this article, from Pro Football Reference.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/blog/?p=8700

Honestly, I don't really care what those stats say. I've watched Ben's last three playoffs games and he led his team down the field for the go ahead touchdown in two of those games (Arizona and Baltimore) and completed a tough third down pass to get his team in victory formation in the other (Jets). Therefore, I'll stick by my previous take which was Ben is about as clutch as they come.

[HesTheCoach]

Re: Brady, P.Manning or Roethlisberger?

Honestly, I don't really care what those stats say. I've watched Ben's last three playoffs games and he led his team down the field for the go ahead touchdown in two of those games (Arizona and Baltimore) and completed a tough third down pass to get his team in victory formation in the other (Jets). Therefore, I'll stick by my previous take which was Ben is about as clutch as they come.

He is. I'm not sure what those stats even mean. They all look the same to me for each QB, for the most part.

It'd be more interesting (and accurate) to break down individual drives when a team is losing/tied in the playoffs, etc.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Ben have the most 4th quarter comebacks/wins of any QB since entering the NFL? That's one sign of being clutch.

I don't like paraphrasing John Madden (Sorry, not a fan) but right at the beginning of the Steelers last drive against the Cards in the SB he said something like "Some people like stats, but to me it's about - did you do it when it really mattered?" Couldn't agree more. That's what it's all about, baby.

[z Revis]

Re: Brady, P.Manning or Roethlisberger?

Honestly, I don't really care what those stats say. I've watched Ben's last three playoffs games and he led his team down the field for the go ahead touchdown in two of those games (Arizona and Baltimore) and completed a tough third down pass to get his team in victory formation in the other (Jets). Therefore, I'll stick by my previous take which was Ben is about as clutch as they come.

I don't even think those numbers disproved that. In fact the only table in that article that is relevant to being clutch is the very last one which shows the number of INT's thrown in the 4th QT and the score deficit. When Big Ben is tied or behind in the 4th quarter or overtime, he's thrown 1 pick(out of 14 total picks). Peyton Manning has thrown 1 as well(out of 19). And Brady has thrown 2(out of 16). Not surprising at all is that Brett Favre leads all QB's with 6 INT's thrown in the 4th QT or OT when tied or down 1 score. lol

I don't think that article was made to prove or disprove how clutch QB's are though. To me, it shows how much defenses and special teams help. For example, in every one of Big Ben's TD drives, he didn't even have to drive 60 yards(on average). His average is 58 yards. Or that, in all of Big Ben's drives, his average starting field position is the 33 yard line. Given the defense and special teams the Steelers have, it's not surprising he's usually awarded with great field position. Being a Colts fan, I'd kill for that stuff.

[MrNFL_FanIQ]

Re: Brady, P.Manning or Roethlisberger?

Honestly, I don't really care what those stats say. I've watched Ben's last three playoffs games and he led his team down the field for the go ahead touchdown in two of those games (Arizona and Baltimore) and completed a tough third down pass to get his team in victory formation in the other (Jets). Therefore, I'll stick by my previous take which was Ben is about as clutch as they come.

Ah yes, the classic "I don't care what any factual analysis says, he has magical clutchiness!" argument.

Yes, his 35.5 rating against the Jets, sure, HE led them to a win...not any of the other players on the team, only him. Because of his clutchy clutchy clutch clutch clutchiness. It doesn't matter that he threw two interceptions, his team won because he's clutchy! Not because of defense, or a great running game, but clutchy!

[MrNFL_FanIQ]

Re: Brady, P.Manning or Roethlisberger?

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Ben have the most 4th quarter comebacks/wins of any QB since entering the NFL? That's one sign of being clutch.

I'd rather my QB have no 4th quarter comebacks, I'd rather have the lead in the 4th.

And once again, I didn't realize only the QB mattered.

Roethlisberger is a good QB, he's not the best, and "OMG CLUTCHINESS" is the fetishization of the small sample size.

[jeremym480]

Re: Brady, P.Manning or Roethlisberger?

Ah yes, the classic "I don't care what any factual analysis says, he has magical clutchiness!" argument.

Yes, his 35.5 rating against the Jets, sure, HE led them to a win...not any of the other players on the team, only him. Because of his clutchy clutchy clutch clutch clutchiness. It doesn't matter that he threw two interceptions, his team won because he's clutchy! Not because of defense, or a great running game, but clutchy!

You mad bro?

[MrNFL_FanIQ]

Re: Brady, P.Manning or Roethlisberger?

You mad bro?

[HesTheCoach]

Re: Brady, P.Manning or Roethlisberger?

I'd rather my QB have no 4th quarter comebacks, I'd rather have the lead in the 4th.

And once again, I didn't realize only the QB mattered.

Roethlisberger is a good QB, he's not the best, and "OMG CLUTCHINESS" is the fetishization of the small sample size.

True, but the NFL (especially today's NFL) isn't college football where you have widely better teams destroying the lesser teams. There is going to be a lot of close games. Ben is one of the best when the game is on the line and a play has to be made. He's shown that to be true over the course of his career so far.

90 yards and a TD in the final minutes of the SB? Does not get any more clutch that that. I think you underrate that attribute in a QB. Montana had it, Brady has it to a degree and Ben has it. Few QB's do, though. I'll take that over FF numbers ANY day of the week.

And who said anything about QB being the only thing that mattered? Not me.

[HesTheCoach]

Re: Brady, P.Manning or Roethlisberger?

Ah yes, the classic "I don't care what any factual analysis says, he has magical clutchiness!" argument.

Yes, his 35.5 rating against the Jets, sure, HE led them to a win...not any of the other players on the team, only him. Because of his clutchy clutchy clutch clutch clutchiness. It doesn't matter that he threw two interceptions, his team won because he's clutchy! Not because of defense, or a great running game, but clutchy!

Did you watch the game? Ben didn't have a great game but he did in fact make a number of plays at very important moments of the game. The QB ratings are often times very misleading. Again, Ben didn't have a great game (statistically) but that 35.5 rating is very misleading, IMO.