Who Are Your Top 5 Players of the 21st Century?

[Yeah...THAT Guy]

Re: Who Are Your Top 5 Players of the 21st Century?

And didn't win a championship. And you ignored the fact that the defense and the rest of the team didn't show up in the 2008 Super Bowl. That was a Big Ben championship, and really he was one of the biggest factors in them getting to the 2005 Super Bowl.

Also I think it's really foolhardy to write off players because they had talent around them. It dilutes the whole meaning of accomplishing things like winning the Super Bowl.

Are we talking about the Super Bowl that James Harrison saved the day in?

[lonewolf371]

Re: Who Are Your Top 5 Players of the 21st Century?

Are we talking about the Super Bowl that James Harrison saved the day in?

James Harrison drove the team down the field to take the lead in the 4th quarter? Where were James Harrison and Troy Polamalu on Larry Fitzgerald's 64-yard touchdown? Giving up a 64-yard touchdown pass and the lead in the 4th quarter pretty directly indicts the defense.

[Yeah...THAT Guy]

Re: Who Are Your Top 5 Players of the 21st Century?

James Harrison drove the team down the field to take the lead in the 4th quarter? Where were James Harrison and Troy Polamalu on Larry Fitzgerald's 64-yard touchdown?

Harrison is the one that saved a Cardinals TD and put 7 points on the board for his team and swung the momentum, wasn't he?

I'm not saying Ben didn't lead them down the field for the game-winning TD, that was one of the most impressive drives I've personally watched. But you said the defense didn't show up when Harrison made a 14 point swing for the Steelers. That's pretty significant.

[untrugby]

Re: Who Are Your Top 5 Players of the 21st Century?

and really he was one of the biggest factors in them getting to the 2005 Super Bowl.

then he followed that up with the worst performance ever by a SB winning QB

Also I think it's really foolhardy to write off players because they had talent around them. It dilutes the whole meaning of accomplishing things like winning the Super Bowl.

im not writing him off im just saying hes not in the same class as the manning, brady career-wise and not in the same class passer-wise as rodgers, brees, and rivers

[lonewolf371]

Re: Who Are Your Top 5 Players of the 21st Century?

Harrison is the one that saved a Cardinals TD and put 7 points on the board for his team and swung the momentum, wasn't he?

I'm not saying Ben didn't lead them down the field for the game-winning TD, that was one of the most impressive drives I've personally watched. But you said the defense didn't show up when Harrison made a 14 point swing for the Steelers. That's pretty significant.

Yeah that's true. My problem is the defense also gave it up later in the game. It cancelled itself out.

then he followed that up with the worst performance ever by a SB winning QB

im not writing him off im just saying hes not in the same class as the manning, brady career-wise and not in the same class passer-wise as rodgers, brees, and rivers

I'm not really disagreeing with that. I'm just saying that I can see why people might rate him high and that I think he gets a lot of disrespect.

[Yeah...THAT Guy]

Re: Who Are Your Top 5 Players of the 21st Century?

Yeah that's true. My problem is the defense also gave it up later in the game. It cancelled itself out.

Defenses aren't allowed to give up points anymore? My god, they still held the Cardinals to 23 points. It's not like that Cardinals-Packers game where both teams were in the 40s.

Roethlisberger threw a TD and an INT. Do those cancel each other out?

[lonewolf371]

Re: Who Are Your Top 5 Players of the 21st Century?

Defenses aren't allowed to give up points anymore? My god, they still held the Cardinals to 23 points. It's not like that Cardinals-Packers game where both teams were in the 40s.

Roethlisberger threw a TD and an INT. Do those cancel each other out?

They shouldn't give up a 64-yard touchdown in the 4th quarter. Those 23 points were the second-most given up by a Super Bowl defense in that decade. Really, if Kurt Warner hadn't decided to mail the football to James Harrison with a bow on top the Steelers probably would have lost that game due to the defense.

Roethlisberger threw his TD in the 4th quarter, when his team needed it most. The defense broke down when it was needed, and only got a chance to redeem itself after Roethlisberger and the offense seized the lead.

[untrugby]

Re: Who Are Your Top 5 Players of the 21st Century?

Roethlisberger threw his TD in the 4th quarter, when his team needed it most. The defense broke down when it was needed, and only got a chance to redeem itself after Roethlisberger and the offense seized the lead.

a TD in the 1st quarter counts the same amount of points as one in the 4th right?
If a team gives up 23 points it still 23 points no matter when they happened.

ignoring the law of averages has your wearing ben colored glasses

[Yeah...THAT Guy]

Re: Who Are Your Top 5 Players of the 21st Century?

They shouldn't give up a 64-yard touchdown in the 4th quarter. Those 23 points were the second-most given up by a Super Bowl defense in that decade. Really, if Kurt Warner hadn't decided to mail the football to James Harrison with a bow on top the Steelers probably would have lost that game due to the defense.

Roethlisberger threw his TD in the 4th quarter, when his team needed it most. The defense broke down when it was needed, and only got a chance to redeem itself after Roethlisberger and the offense seized the lead.

So because the Steelers gave up a TD to probably the 2nd best WR in the NFL and one of the best QBs in the NFL at the time, they blew it and were saved by Big Ben, who was severely outplayed by Warner pretty much the entire game?

[lonewolf371]

Re: Who Are Your Top 5 Players of the 21st Century?

a TD in the 1st quarter counts the same amount of points as one in the 4th right?
If a team gives up 23 points it still 23 points no matter when they happened.

ignoring the law of averages has your wearing ben colored glasses

No because the sequence of events in a football game are neither independent nor uncorrelated. They don't matter the same amount. The score and the time left on the clock determines the actions and strategies of coaches in players, and the ones that perform best in high-leverage situations win the most championships.

[untrugby]

Re: Who Are Your Top 5 Players of the 21st Century?

No because the sequence of events in a football game are neither independent nor uncorrelated. They don't matter the same amount. The score and the time left on the clock determines the actions and strategies of coaches in players, and the ones that perform best in high-leverage situations win the most championships.

but had ben thrown his td pass earlier in the game the defense giving up a TD wouldnt have mattered. Ill take a team that preforms solidly for 4 quarters over one that goes up and down anyday.

[lonewolf371]

Re: Who Are Your Top 5 Players of the 21st Century?

but had ben thrown his td pass earlier in the game the defense giving up a TD wouldnt have mattered. Ill take a team that preforms solidly for 4 quarters over one that goes up and down anyday.

Yeah but a TD pass thrown earlier in the game doesn't seal the win as much as a TD pass thrown late in the game.

A lot of good teams know how to perform solidly for 4 quarters. You even saw that in the game we're talking about. That's why 4th quarter performances matter so much; between good teams plays in the 4th quarter often seal the deal on who wins.

[untrugby]

Re: Who Are Your Top 5 Players of the 21st Century?

Yeah but a TD pass thrown earlier in the game doesn't seal the win as much as a TD pass thrown late in the game.

A lot of good teams know how to perform solidly for 4 quarters. You even saw that in the game we're talking about. That's why 4th quarter performances matter so much; between good teams plays in the 4th quarter often seal the deal on who wins.

teams that preform solidly for 4 quarters dont have to worry about upping their game in the 4th becuase they are already enough ahead that a solid performance will win it.

[bjm2210]

Re: Who Are Your Top 5 Players of the 21st Century?

Way to early to even consider Ben in that category, he is great but need to see how the rest of his career unfolds before putting him up there with best ever. right now i look at him like an Aikman or Bradshaw if anyone not Brady or Manning. and my 5:

1. Peyton Manning - Not one player in the league means more to their team year-in and year-out, you take manning out of the colts lineup for a season and that team is .500 at best, and no one is more consistent year in and year out than him, well except this next guy

2. Tom Brady - Some will put him above Manning, some won't the only reason i put Manning above him is the fact is that Brady played on some very good Patriots' teams, Spygate and the whole Matt Cassel year. But i'm not taking anything away from Tom, 3 SB rings, 2 MVP's i could go on

3. Ray Lewis - Complete Difference maker on the defensive side of the ball. and even now at his age you can see how great of a player he is still being effective due to his great knowledge and instincts. A model for leadership and intensity on the field and easily could be labeled as #1 LB of all-time

4. LaDanian Tomlinson - Easily the most pure running back since Walter Payton. His 06' season could be argued that is one of the best individual seasons ever. L.T. is probably the 4th Best RB in NFL history behind (Brown, Payton and Sanders)

5. Terrell Owens - Say what you will T.O.'s numbers don't lie. 2nd All-Time Receiving yards, Tied for 2nd in TD Receptions with Moss, the list goes on with him, yeah off-the field and on-the-field antics did come with him, but T.O. always showed up to play, even lately with poor teams

Honorable Mentions-
Orlando Pace
Jonathan Ogden
Randy Moss
Ed Reed
Champ Bailey
Charles Woodson
Michael Strahan
Brett Favre (Majority of career was in 90's but played at H.O.F. level until last season and with Jets)
Willie Roaf
Walter Jones

[lonewolf371]

Re: Who Are Your Top 5 Players of the 21st Century?

teams that preform solidly for 4 quarters dont have to worry about upping their game in the 4th becuase they are already enough ahead that a solid performance will win it.

You missed it. With two quality opponents, there isn't going to be much differentiation in the first three quarters, so whoever makes a move in the 4th wins. In the playoffs, you usually have two quality opponents. That's how most championships are won.