Who Are Your Top 5 Players of the 21st Century?

[lonewolf371]

Re: Who Are Your Top 5 Players of the 21st Century?

Doesn't really matter. Overall point is that it's very difficult to compare across positions, and just saying "they were the best at their position" doesn't take the difficulty out of it. For example, many say QB is the most important position on the field. If there happen to be 5 QBs that played over that time and all are locks for the HOF (like the guys we're mentioning across positions) then would we not consider the worse 4 out of this group of 5 just because there are 4 guys that have been the best at their position? I don't know.

IMO, unless we're doing each position individually, that shouldn't be used to determine whether someone should be considered or not. Now obviously, someone shouldn't be considered if there are other players we'd think better than them at the same position that aren't considered, but other than that they've gotta be compared across the board (despite how virtually impossible that is).

Yeah but that's only part of the arguments for those guys. Ray Lewis hasn't just been one of the best at his position; he's been one of the best defensive players in NFL history. Tony Gonzalez hasn't just been a great tight end; he's been one of the best offensive weapons in NFL history. His receiving numbers are better than a number of receivers already in the Hall of Fame, plus he's a great blocker. Similar argument for LT; his touchdown numbers are just phenomenal.

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: Who Are Your Top 5 Players of the 21st Century?

Ahh I see the "He's a Packer Fan so of course he's not gonna give Moss any love" card got played.

[wwharton]

Re: Who Are Your Top 5 Players of the 21st Century?

Yeah but that's only part of the arguments for those guys. Ray Lewis hasn't just been one of the best at his position; he's been one of the best defensive players in NFL history. Tony Gonzalez hasn't just been a great tight end; he's been one of the best offensive weapons in NFL history. His receiving numbers are better than a number of receivers already in the Hall of Fame, plus he's a great blocker. Similar argument for LT; his touchdown numbers are just phenomenal.

I agree with Ray and LT (and the others I don't even think need to be mentioned). Gonzo is the wildcard (imo). Just like it's hard for TEs to get into the HOF. I'm thinking you have to be an insane TE to a top 5 player of the decade with so many other great players.

Now I'm not saying he definitely doesn't deserve the spot, but that being the best TE during that time doesn't give him any bonus points in my book. Top 5 is a very small group. I'm not sure if he jumps some other players. It's hard to say bc of comparing across positions but being the best of THAT position doesn't hold as much weight in this discussion for me.

[untrugby]

Re: Who Are Your Top 5 Players of the 21st Century?

I agree with Ray and LT (and the others I don't even think need to be mentioned). Gonzo is the wildcard (imo). Just like it's hard for TEs to get into the HOF. I'm thinking you have to be an insane TE to a top 5 player of the decade with so many other great players.

Now I'm not saying he definitely doesn't deserve the spot, but that being the best TE during that time doesn't give him any bonus points in my book. Top 5 is a very small group. I'm not sure if he jumps some other players. It's hard to say bc of comparing across positions but being the best of THAT position doesn't hold as much weight in this discussion for me.

gonzo isnt just a TE hes the no doubt best TE of all time and during this season he will move into 2nd all-time in receptions behind only jerry rice. If his position was labeled WR instead of TE and he had the same stats he does. he would be up on everyones list with Moss and TO.

[wwharton]

Re: Who Are Your Top 5 Players of the 21st Century?

gonzo isnt just a TE hes the no doubt best TE of all time and during this season he will move into 2nd all-time in receptions behind only jerry rice. If his position was labeled WR instead of TE and he had the same stats he does. he would be up on everyones list with Moss and TO.

Not sure how that's a rebuttal to what I just said (especially considering Moss and TO aren't locks on everybody's list like Gonzo is being argued as needing to be).

[untrugby]

Re: Who Are Your Top 5 Players of the 21st Century?

Not sure how that's a rebuttal to what I just said (especially considering Moss and TO aren't locks on everybody's list like Gonzo is being argued as needing to be).

i think moss is a "lock" the problem is there are 6 "locks" for this list of 5 players

[lonewolf371]

Re: Who Are Your Top 5 Players of the 21st Century?

Not sure how that's a rebuttal to what I just said (especially considering Moss and TO aren't locks on everybody's list like Gonzo is being argued as needing to be).

It's saying that as a receiver he's awesome, and even that's only half of his game. He also paved the way for some of the best single season running performances of the decade.

[wwharton]

Re: Who Are Your Top 5 Players of the 21st Century?

i think moss is a "lock" the problem is there are 6 "locks" for this list of 5 players

There lies the problem. Can't have 6 "locks" in a list of 5. We can't just say "well there has to be 6" and move on... we have to nitpick to narrow it down. My argument is that there are 4 that I don't think Gonzo, Moss, Reed, etc. are on the same level in terms of "locks" and I'm just stating it's hard to distinguish between those outside of that elite group bc of comparing across positions.

It's saying that as a receiver he's awesome, and even that's only half of his game. He also paved the way for some of the best single season running performances of the decade.

You're making a case for Gonzo being included, but I don't have an argument for anyone who thinks he should. Same is true for Moss, Reed, TO... maybe even others that aren't coming to mind right now. My response was more about the idea that he should be a lock bc he was the leader at his position. I don't think that should carry any weight. I could say the same about WRs. You see how hard it is for them to get into the HOF also. Make him a wideout and he's among Moss and TO... and I still wouldn't say he's a lock on this list, just like I don't think either of those guys are.

Keep in mind, this is in response to the post that said certain guys should be on EVERY list, and that Gonzo should be included bc of his dominance at his position. Make him a WR and he doesn't have that same dominance so that thought goes out the window anyway. I'm not sure any WR/TE not named Rice could be a top 5 lock across the board for any decade (maybe if Moss had a couple of rings during that time... maybe if Gonzo had a couple).

[lonewolf371]

Re: Who Are Your Top 5 Players of the 21st Century?

I disagree on it being hard for wide receivers to make the Hall of Fame, but that deserves it's own thread.

[coolguy124]

Re: Who Are Your Top 5 Players of the 21st Century?

manning
brady
tomlinson
lewis
polamalu

[untrugby]

Re: Who Are Your Top 5 Players of the 21st Century?

There lies the problem. Can't have 6 "locks" in a list of 5. We can't just say "well there has to be 6" and move on... we have to nitpick to narrow it down. My argument is that there are 4 that I don't think Gonzo, Moss, Reed, etc. are on the same level in terms of "locks" and I'm just stating it's hard to distinguish between those outside of that elite group bc of comparing across positions.



You're making a case for Gonzo being included, but I don't have an argument for anyone who thinks he should. Same is true for Moss, Reed, TO... maybe even others that aren't coming to mind right now. My response was more about the idea that he should be a lock bc he was the leader at his position. I don't think that should carry any weight. I could say the same about WRs. You see how hard it is for them to get into the HOF also. Make him a wideout and he's among Moss and TO... and I still wouldn't say he's a lock on this list, just like I don't think either of those guys are.

Keep in mind, this is in response to the post that said certain guys should be on EVERY list, and that Gonzo should be included bc of his dominance at his position. Make him a WR and he doesn't have that same dominance so that thought goes out the window anyway. I'm not sure any WR/TE not named Rice could be a top 5 lock across the board for any decade (maybe if Moss had a couple of rings during that time... maybe if Gonzo had a couple).

theres 23 modern era QBs in the HOF and 21 WRs

WRs get in easy enough and about the 6 locks and 5 picks its not the problem with the locks its the problem with the question. there are 22 starting positions picking a top 5 of all of them in any category is going to leave someone out who should be in. its too small of a list for such a wide talent base. you call LdT a lock but his numbers dont stack up the same way moss and gonzos do and he doesnt have any rings either and RB is less important than WR in the 2000s era of football.

[PrettyT11]

Re: Who Are Your Top 5 Players of the 21st Century?

you call LdT a lock but his numbers dont stack up the same way moss and gonzos do and he doesnt have any rings either and RB is less important than WR in the 2000s era of football.

Come again?? How does LT's numbers not stack up like theirs?? He is 2nd all time in rushing TD's, 3rd all time in total TD's, and 6th all time in rushing yards and yards from scrimmage. Plus he also has/held numerous NFL records. Not to mention his first 8 year run is arguably the greatest run for a RB in NFL history.

If you was to look at his numbers in comparison to his peers his stand out far more than Moss numbers do. Moss has TO and Harrison with very very close numbers to his in regards to receptions,yards, and TD's. LT's numbers are far and away better than any of his peers. The closest guy to LT is Portis and he is over 3,400 rushing yards and 69 TD's behind. That doesn't even begin to go into the huge lead LT has on him in recieving and total yards.

[PrettyT11]

Re: Who Are Your Top 5 Players of the 21st Century?

Since I have posted in this thread now my top 5 in no order would be
Manning
Ray Lewis
Brady
LT
Reed/Moss
With about 4 guys right on the outside looking in.

[TheMatrix31]

Re: Who Are Your Top 5 Players of the 21st Century?

Ahh I see the "He's a Packer Fan so of course he's not gonna give Moss any love" card got played.

Yep, that's insanely annoying. Where did we get to a point as sports fans that we can't comment on (anything, really) something concerning a past rival without being accused as biased or "a *****" or whatever?

Stupid.

[wwharton]

Re: Who Are Your Top 5 Players of the 21st Century?

theres 23 modern era QBs in the HOF and 21 WRs

WRs get in easy enough and about the 6 locks and 5 picks its not the problem with the locks its the problem with the question. there are 22 starting positions picking a top 5 of all of them in any category is going to leave someone out who should be in. its too small of a list for such a wide talent base. you call LdT a lock but his numbers dont stack up the same way moss and gonzos do and he doesnt have any rings either and RB is less important than WR in the 2000s era of football.

lol, ok... I'm not going to dig any deeper into the sidetrack of whether or not WRs have a tough time getting into the HOF (fair enough if they don't) or whether or not LT should be a lock (I believe he should). The entire point I was making is in agreement with the rest of your post, but worded differently. There cannot be 6 locks in a list of 5 people. It's pretty much that simple. You can't even call them all locks. So what you need to do is make the criteria for what determines a lock tougher. Now if you think all 6 of the people you think are locks are equal then I strongly disagree with that.

But that's why I don't have a list. I have a list of 4 (maybe it'd be 3 for you) and then a group of 3 or 4 that I can't decide which 1 should be included. That's pretty much the extent of what I'm saying. Gonzo, Moss, Reed, TO... you say LT, someone else posted TroyP just now. A case can be made for any of them. But a "lock" based on the post I was responding to, is a player that should be on everybody's list, and I can understand why any of these guys wouldn't be on some lists (since lists are only limited to 5).

And again, the only reason it even came up was bc of the idea that Gonzo had to be included bc he dominated his position and I don't think that specific fact puts him above the rest (you can argue that other things do... or don't, doesn't matter. that's not what I'm arguing).