MVP Discussion Thread

[ImTellinTim]

Re: MVP Discussion Thread

You didn't seriously just equate the Vikings organization with the Lions, did you? :wink:

I was a bit salty yesterday afternoon, so yeah I guess I did. I guess the main difference is the Lions beat down your will as a fan ealry and often. The Vikings wait until the biggest games possible and perform the heart scene from Temple of Doom on their fans.

[wwharton]

Re: MVP Discussion Thread

i think that's a solid assessment, but i'm holding out for my final judgement. Minnesota won again today, and AD had another big run for a score.

If Minnesota ends up being a playoff team, then i think i give more credit to Peterson than any other player in contention at this point. It's splitting hairs, cause Manning and Brady are both great, no question, but to have that type of affect on your team as a RB, there's something to be said for that.

I'm in this camp too but I still don't see them making the playoffs. So I guess I should look at it based on things right now where they would be considered in but I see them losing one or both of the next games... and Manning or Brady possibly sitting at the top of the AFC.

[Seahawk76]

Re: MVP Discussion Thread

I said earlier that if it's close the MVP should go to a quarterback over a running back since QB is the most important position on the field. I'm starting to lean toward Peterson now, though. If he breaks the record and the Vikings get into the playoffs with Christian Ponder as their quarterback then I think he should get it.

[JohnnyP1119]

Re: MVP Discussion Thread

If the Vikings make the playoffs, AP has to be the MVP...I mean besides Harvin, who else has carried the team. Now without Harvin your 2nd best Offensive Player is ???

[Bellsprout]

Re: MVP Discussion Thread

I think it's Brady.

I don't care that they eventually lost, watching him lead his team back from 28 down against the best defense in the league last night convinced me.

[TRC]

Re: MVP Discussion Thread

http://www.denverpost.com/lunchspecial/ci_22208882/nfl-mvp-debate-does-petersons-rush-history-trump

This is a good article that discusses the definition of "MVP." I think that it makes a good case for both Manning and Brady over Peterson (and Watt). What Peterson is doing is amazing, but Manning is doing something very similar after an injury. But what makes Manning MVP over Brady is that he is also doing it his first year with an entirely different team with new coaches and young receivers. Both Peterson and Manning should win co-comback players of the year, IMO.

[ImTellinTim]

Re: MVP Discussion Thread

http://www.denverpost.com/lunchspeci...-history-trump

This is a good article that discusses the definition of "MVP." I think that it makes a good case for both Manning and Brady over Peterson and Watt.

Denver Post writer advocates for Manning. Yawn.

[roadman]

Re: MVP Discussion Thread

Denver Post writer advocates for Manning. Yawn.

81% of the voters that read the Denver Post voted for Manning?

[ImTellinTim]

Re: MVP Discussion Thread

81% of the voters that read the Denver Post voted for Manning?

Not surprising at all. I'm sure a Star Tribune poll would show the same results towards Peterson. I was just reacting to calling it a good article, when it's simply an opinion piece with no substance by a hometown columnist.

[TRC]

Re: MVP Discussion Thread

The intention of citing the Denver Post article was more regarding the definition of MVP as discussed by Dick Enburg, whom is not a Broncos fan/homer. It was merely to discuss which player is "Most Valuable Team Player"-- which player not only carries the load, but also which player elevates the play of the entire team, and exemplifies "team leader." Under that definition, I believe that Manning and Brady truly define MVP. Unfortunately, that doesn't give any other player other than QB a solid chance at winning the MVP.

[roadman]

Re: MVP Discussion Thread

So, the whole article comes down to a legendary tv broadcasters one sentence on his opinion what an MVP means to him?

Sorry, I'm not buying it.

AD fits under the same category, QB or not.

Anyone who has a chance to break a 30 year old record after the injury that AD came back from should be in the same conversation as your Manning and Brady.

Not sure why AD is not registering as "team leader" under your definition.

Yes, historically, the award has gone to QB's, but that doesn't mean a RB that comes along and breaks a 3 decade year old record can't be discussed in the same sentence as QB's and eventually walk away with the award.

It's possible, not impossible.

[JODYE]

Re: MVP Discussion Thread

Yeah, it's still AP for me.

Regardless of the article.

[ImTellinTim]

Re: MVP Discussion Thread

The intention of citing the Denver Post article was more regarding the definition of MVP as discussed by Dick Enburg, whom is not a Broncos fan/homer. It was merely to discuss which player is "Most Valuable Team Player"-- which player not only carries the load, but also which player elevates the play of the entire team, and exemplifies "team leader." Under that definition, I believe that Manning and Brady truly define MVP. Unfortunately, that doesn't give any other player other than QB a solid chance at winning the MVP.

I do not like that definition because it is too hard to define and measure. There are plenty of great "team leaders" in the league. Is Manning that much better of a "team leader" than say Aaron Rodgers or Russell Wilson? So in this example let's say that these 3 all have about equal "team leading" skills. You give Manning the nod because he's on a better overall team? Seems to me that defeats the purpose of the award.

[Hooe]

Re: MVP Discussion Thread

I believe Adrian Peterson is on pace to finish for more rushing yards per carry than his team is averaging yards per passing attempt. Not that that makes it an open-shut case, I'd like to know when else in NFL history that has happened.

To put that in perspective, however, this season, the teams with comparable passing yards per passing attempt to the Vikings are the Chiefs, Jets, Cardinals, and Jaguars. All of these teams are awful. Without #28, the Vikings have nothing else to fall back on.

I think that's a compelling argument, personally. That said, there are a few other players with compelling arguments, Manning, Brady, etc. among them. I think Robert Griffin III also has a compelling argument for MVP as well - his team's entire offense and offensive success is predicated upon his unique and elite skillset. That said I realize fully that RGIII has absolutely no shot at winning the award as a rookie or on a team that is not amongst the NFL's elite, the MVP is a bit of a glamor award nowadays.

[JODYE]

Re: MVP Discussion Thread

Sorry for the double post here, but for those who say Manning? I don't understand why.

First off, you have to ignore the injury. This isn't the comeback player of the year award. As great a story as both him and AP are, it has no baring on the award itself. It's most "valuable".

Now we're talking about a player in Manning, that came to a team that went to the playoffs with Tim Tebow. TIM TEBOW!! This team won 8 games with maybe the worst starting QB in the entire league. While the MVP, yes is an individual award, if this team didn't already have a solid core in place, then Manning's numbers wouldn't mean a damn thing.

But let's take a look at those numbers.

First, Manning doesn't lead in any statistical category for QBs. Not one, and plays on a team with the 4th best defense in the entire league.

AP? Yards by close to 500, YPC, YPG by over 30, and has 20 runs for 20+ yards, better than the next RB by 9. Meanwhile, he plays on the team with the worst passing attack in the league, literally ranked dead last. He's averaging more YPC than some teams average Yards per completion. While they rank 4th in rushing at 160 yards per game. Meaning out of the 160 yards they are averaging a game, AP rushes for 130 of those. That's 81% of the teams rushing offense and 40% of the teams offense, at RB, by HIMSELF! Every defense the Vikings play against is keyed into stopping him, and they can't do it.

What's even more impressive, and puzzling at the same time, is Peterson has had 18 carries or fewer in half of Minnesota's games this season. Yes, there have been seven occasions this year where the game's best running back has been handed the ball 18 times or less. (Not coincidentally, Minnesota's record in those seven games is 2-5.)

Comparing that to a QB is whole different beast. Not only do you have to stop the QB, but also you have to stop the 4-5 receivers on the field that he's looking to throw to, and when talking about any of the elite QBs, that is really hard to do. Especially when you have the core that Manning has at his disposal.

But when you only have to focus on one guy, and for a team to be that one dimensional on offense, to have won 8 games and a chance to make the playoffs, I don't understand how that can be disregarded. This man is literally ALL the Vikings have.

Their only other threat, Percy Harvin has been hurt. The Vikings are trotting CFL quality receivers out there with a QB that might be worse than Mark Sanchez, if that's even possible.

Oh and by the way, he's on pace to break one of the longest standing records in the NFL. But that doesn't mean anything either.