MVP Discussion Thread

[wwharton]

Re: MVP Discussion Thread

If Peterson breaks Dickerson's record, coming 1 year after ACL surgery, I'd be very hard pressed to NOT give the MVP to him.

The injury shouldn't be part of the story when considering MVP... and with that thought, we'd have to say Calvin Johnson is in the same boat. Even though he was meh yesterday he's got a real chance at breaking Rice's record. Honestly, that's why I don't think just breaking records is enough to win the award.

What AP has done is mind-boggling, A running back that tore up his knee not even a year ago and isn't suppose to be this good right now is now on pace to break the 2000 yard barrier and carrying a terrible Minnesota offense with a god awful Quarterback and with no weapons on the outside. This team has no business having a winning record and he's not going to win it even if they do finish with a winning record and that's a damn tragedy to me like dude said above me, you might as well rename it MVQB Award because unless a running back runs for 2000 and his team goes 15-1 basically he's not going to win it

That kind of shows why QBs win it so often though. Usually a QB on pace to break a record this significant would also have his team firmly locked in the playoffs right now. This shows that RBs rarely can have that type of impact alone. The most recent big record breaking QB in the position AP currently is in finished with the OPOY award, not MVP (Drew Brees).

[JODYE]

Re: MVP Discussion Thread

AP just got my vote.

He is the sole reason that the Vikings are where they are right now.

Ponder is atrocious.

[kingkilla56]

Re: MVP Discussion Thread

AP is doing these things when the whole defense is keying on him. Now his offensive line deserves credit, but his physical ability to force the issue on an offense that doesnt have anybody else that can (or is) doing so is remarkable.

He is the only thing you need to worry about on that offense, and you wont be able to stop him anyway. That is an MVP.

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: MVP Discussion Thread

The injury shouldn't be part of the story when considering MVP... and with that thought, we'd have to say Calvin Johnson is in the same boat. Even though he was meh yesterday he's got a real chance at breaking Rice's record. Honestly, that's why I don't think just breaking records is enough to win the award

Ok, so(hypothetically)take away the "injury part of the story)and AP still has more going for him in winning MVP than Calvin does, or at least did.

[mestevo]

AP just got my vote.

He is the sole reason that the Vikings are where they are right now.

Ponder is atrocious.

I'm not sure how third place in their division is a ringing endorsement

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

[kehlis]

Isn't Manning coming back from a pretty bad injury as well?

[wwharton]

Re: MVP Discussion Thread

Ok, so(hypothetically)take away the "injury part of the story)and AP still has more going for him in winning MVP than Calvin does, or at least did.

I disagree (and am worried this is going to turn into a debate of knocking AP so please, anyone jumping in this discussion don't take that angle). I think they're both going for insane records. What happened yesterday doesn't say they both won't get them, and this is really a hypothetical of what if they both break the record. I guess then we can introduce the playoff situation. I don't think either gets in which makes that aspect a wash also.

But with all of that said, even if one gets in and the other doesn't (pretty clear that one would be Minnesota if it happens), I still think there's a big difference between grabbing the 2nd wild card and winning the division and/or nailing the first or second seed, and that's what the QBs in contention are in line for. To me, having amazing seasons tied to the most wins is more important in the MVP race than record breaking seasons with less wins... and the voters have seemed to go that route too over the years.

[wwharton]

Re: MVP Discussion Thread

Isn't Manning coming back from a pretty bad injury himself?

I don't think his should come into play either. The move from Indy to Denver should though (imo).

[kehlis]

I don't think his should come into play either. The move from Indy to Denver should though (imo).

Agreed, my point was why are some bringing up AP's injury and saying that is the reason he should be MVP (like you, I disagree with that argument for this award) when Manning also had an injury?

[Sportsforever]

Re: MVP Discussion Thread

Season isn't over, and as much as I'd like to see a non-QB win it, Manning is the guy right now. Unbelievable what he's done.

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: MVP Discussion Thread

I disagree (and am worried this is going to turn into a debate of knocking AP so please, anyone jumping in this discussion don't take that angle). I think they're both going for insane records. What happened yesterday doesn't say they both won't get them, and this is really a hypothetical of what if they both break the record. I guess then we can introduce the playoff situation. I don't think either gets in which makes that aspect a wash also.

But with all of that said, even if one gets in and the other doesn't (pretty clear that one would be Minnesota if it happens), I still think there's a big difference between grabbing the 2nd wild card and winning the division and/or nailing the first or second seed, and that's what the QBs in contention are in line for. To me, having amazing seasons tied to the most wins is more important in the MVP race than record breaking seasons with less wins... and the voters have seemed to go that route too over the years.

1. You're asking for a lot then by saying take away the records AND take away the injuries(when they've always played a part in determining the MVP). FWIW, I don't think Calvin had a realistic shot(by that I mean a chance to win at least a 1/4 of the votes, not really interested in how many 3rd/4th place votes he'd get)even prior to last night and I don't think anyone else did either.

2.

To me, having amazing seasons tied to the most wins is more important in the MVP race than record breaking seasons with less wins

You're basically saying that QBs should be the only ones that should win it, especially since the whole "QBs get the credit when they win" perception is a pretty strong one and definitely plays a factor.

[kingkilla56]

Re: MVP Discussion Thread

In an unrelated note, thank God Peyton didnt go to San Francisco. He is playing like a beast this year. Hasnt missed a beat.

[wwharton]

Re: MVP Discussion Thread

1. You're asking for a lot then by saying take away the records AND take away the injuries(when they've always played a part in determining the MVP). FWIW, I don't think Calvin had a realistic shot(by that I mean a chance to win at least a 1/4 of the votes, not really interested in how many 3rd/4th place votes he'd get)even prior to last night and I don't think anyone else did either.

2.
You're basically saying that QBs should be the only ones that should win it, especially since the whole "QBs get the credit when they win" perception is a pretty strong one and definitely plays a factor.

I never said take away the records. What I'm saying is having a record breaking season doesn't trump wins in an MVP race. I don't see how previous injuries play a part though... maybe a loose correlation between what a team did the year before without the injured player, but that still points to wins.

I don't think Calvin has a shot either, but the record he's chasing would prove just as impressive as AP... and likely put their teams in the same boat, on the outside looking in. What AP is doing is incredible, but it gets more attention bc of the injury. But that's talk for Comeback Player of the Year, not MVP. They should both be in the convo for OPOY (I would still give that to AP but the injury wouldn't have anything to do with that for me either).

I'm also not saying QBs should be the only ones who win MVP, and I hate that perception you're talking about. If the Vikings had even an average QB or a better D, they'd be in the race to win their division... and then I'd put AP up there with Manning, Ryan, Rodgers, Brady and any other QB being talked about. In short, if the production isn't creating enough wins (while others in the running are having great seasons AND it's putting their teams at the top of the league) then it's an OPOY discussion, not an MVP discussion.

[JODYE]

Re: MVP Discussion Thread

I'm not sure how third place in their division is a ringing endorsement

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

It is when the passing offense on your team is last in football and your QB has thrown for less than 100 yards three times.

Or when you're averaging 123 yards a game when every defense is stacking the box to stop you. It is when you're the leading rusher in the league by nearly 400 yards and could rush for over 2000 yards this season. Guy has 18 runs for over 20 yards. Next closest? CJ Spiller at 11. Again taking into consideration how bad the Minnesota passing game has been.

Manning has been good? Of course. Is his team better as a whole? Yes.

Manning doesn't lead in any statistical category at the QB position and he's on a team that won 8 games with Tim Friggin Tebow at QB. Not to mention they play in the worst division in football right now.

If the Vikings don't have AP, I'm not sure they win 3 games all year. Dude has been unbelievable.

Manning can have CPOTY. Peterson is the Most Valuable and it's not close to me anymore.

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: MVP Discussion Thread

I don't see how previous injuries play a part though

It's part(although you could say it's small)of the reason why Manning is probably leading the charge for MVP right now. It's a storyline basically.

What AP is doing is incredible, but it gets more attention bc of the injury.

You can easily say this about Manning as well.

In short, if the production isn't creating enough wins (while others in the running are having great seasons AND it's putting their teams at the top of the league)

To continue these hypotheticals, if Denver finishes 11-5 and Minnesota finishes 10-6, should Manning still win it(I say still because I already know he's going to win it anyway)?