Is (Insert Player Here) A Hall of Famer?

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  • Evan_OS
    Go Titans..
    • Dec 2009
    • 3456

    #76
    Re: Is (Insert Player Here) A Hall of Famer?

    Originally posted by kehlis
    I understand what your argument it.

    But to prove that shouldn't you be able to make an argument for a kicker/punter versus others on the ballot?

    What's your argument for a kicker/punter verse any player on the last couple ballots that didn't make it in?
    Adam Vinatieri. Like the other guy said. 4 Super Bowls and at least two of them he kicked the game winner. Definitely has been one of the most consistent kickers of the decade (oh by the way, he made the 2000's all decade team along with the all 1990's and 2000's Patriots teams.)

    I would take him over Davis. I don't know if Davis was on the ballot for sure recently, but I imagine they may have put him on there if he's getting the kind of praise on here that I'm seeing.

    Comment

    • Yrogergj24
      MVP
      • Feb 2011
      • 1102

      #77
      Re: Is (Insert Player Here) A Hall of Famer?

      Originally posted by bkrich83
      Davis carried two teams to SBs A Kicker no matter how good he was ever carried an offense. Or at least an offense that was successful.

      you would really put Vinateri in before Davis? Wow.
      John Elway says hello to the first sentence

      George Blanda wets his adult diaper to the third sentence

      Comment

      • kehlis
        Moderator
        • Jul 2008
        • 27738

        #78
        Re: Is (Insert Player Here) A Hall of Famer?

        Originally posted by Evan_OS
        Adam Vinatieri. Like the other guy said. 4 Super Bowls and at least two of them he kicked the game winner. Definitely has been one of the most consistent kickers of the decade (oh by the way, he made the 2000's all decade team along with the all 1990's and 2000's Patriots teams.)

        I would take him over Davis. I don't know if Davis was on the ballot for sure recently, but I imagine they may have put him on there if he's getting the kind of praise on here that I'm seeing.
        Kickers get paid to make kicks, it's their job. They don't get paid well and they are very replaceable.

        Vinatieri was a great kicker, but lets not pretend that without him the Patriots wouldn't have been as successful.

        Kickers are a dime a dozen, and as nice as it is to have a good one, they are very replaceable. See Mason Crosby.

        Hall of Famers are people who are able to go above and beyond expectations.


        I'm not trying to discredit the importance of punters or kickers but they don't belong in the HOF. The bottom of the pile is too close to the top of the pile.

        Comment

        • rangerrick012
          All Star
          • Jan 2010
          • 6201

          #79
          Re: Is (Insert Player Here) A Hall of Famer?

          "Kickers get paid to make kicks" - a bit simplistic, no? Running backs get paid to run the ball, OLs get paid to block, etc.

          A great kicker can win a game for a team. A bad one can lose a game for a team. Especially close games. No one is saying that every kicker under the sun should be let in, but if a kicker is great, they deserved to get recognition just like great players at other positions do.
          Twitter: @rangerrick012

          PSN: dsavbeast

          Comment

          • Evan_OS
            Go Titans..
            • Dec 2009
            • 3456

            #80
            Re: Is (Insert Player Here) A Hall of Famer?

            Originally posted by kehlis
            Kickers get paid to make kicks, it's their job. They don't get paid well and they are very replaceable.

            Vinatieri was a great kicker, but lets not pretend that without him the Patriots wouldn't have been as successful.

            Kickers are a dime a dozen, and as nice as it is to have a good one, they are very replaceable. See Mason Crosby.

            Hall of Famers are people who are able to go above and beyond expectations.


            I'm not trying to discredit the importance of punters or kickers but they don't belong in the HOF. The bottom of the pile is too close to the top of the pile.
            How exactly do Kickers go beyond expectations if it's they job to make kicks? Running backs are paid to run the ball lmfao.

            Kickers may be a dime a dozen, but that doesn't mean great kickers who make clutch field goals are a dime a dozen. They're are a lot of average kickers, only a few great ones.

            Comment

            • Kaiser Wilhelm
              MVP
              • Sep 2010
              • 2790

              #81
              Re: Is (Insert Player Here) A Hall of Famer?

              Quarterbacks get paid to throw and read defenses.
              Runningbacks get paid to run and catch the ball.
              Receivers get paid to catch the ball.
              Linemen get paid to block other guys.

              I'm not sure where you were trying to go with that argument. Nobody really does anything more than their job description, its just a matter of how good they are at it.

              It should be harder for Punters and kicker but not impossible. If the Hall of Fame neglects those two positions and cannot be considered and adequate representation of the greats of the sport.
              Thanks to LBzrules: So these threads won't be forever lost.
              Tiered Play Calling
              Outs and Curls (Bracketing Receivers)
              If anybody is interested in a "spiritual successor to the socom franchise, check out this thread.

              Comment

              • kehlis
                Moderator
                • Jul 2008
                • 27738

                #82
                Re: Is (Insert Player Here) A Hall of Famer?

                Originally posted by rangerrick012
                "Kickers get paid to make kicks" - a bit simplistic, no? Running backs get paid to run the ball, OLs get paid to block, etc.

                A great kicker can win a game for a team. A bad one can lose a game for a team. Especially close games. No one is saying that every kicker under the sun should be let in, but if a kicker is great, they deserved to get recognition just like great players at other positions do.
                Originally posted by Evan_OS
                How exactly do Kickers go beyond expectations if it's they job to make kicks? Running backs are paid to run the ball lmfao.

                Kickers may be a dime a dozen, but that doesn't mean great kickers who make clutch field goals are a dime a dozen. They're are a lot of average kickers, only a few great ones.
                LOL. Yea, I admit, it wasn't my best of arguments, but my point really doesn't change.

                Kickers and punters are nowhere near the importance to a team as other players.

                You guys are mentioning Lechler, where has that gotten the Raiders? He's easily one of the best punters to play the game. Seabass? Same story, but where has that gotten the Raiders?

                I appreciate what they have done, I really do. I'm a huge Jason Elam fan but I don't think he's done anything to get himself into the HOF.

                If we were to just start putting in the best punters/kickers, then we have to start putting in average running backs/wide receivers. That's not really what the HOF is about.

                Comment

                • Evan_OS
                  Go Titans..
                  • Dec 2009
                  • 3456

                  #83
                  Re: Is (Insert Player Here) A Hall of Famer?

                  Originally posted by kehlis
                  LOL. Yea, I admit, it wasn't my best of arguments, but my point really doesn't change.

                  Kickers and punters are nowhere near the importance to a team as other players.

                  You guys are mentioning Lechler, where has that gotten the Raiders? He's easily one of the best punters to play the game. Seabass? Same story, but where has that gotten the Raiders?

                  I appreciate what they have done, I really do. I'm a huge Jason Elam fan but I don't think he's done anything to get himself into the HOF.

                  If we were to just start putting in the best punters/kickers, then we have to start putting in average running backs/wide receivers. That's not really what the HOF is about.
                  Shane Lechler is the most deserving punter in my eyes. He's done his job, and he's done it very well. Unfortunately, the only way you do his job at that level is if you are on a team that sucks.

                  And as far as kickers not being that important to a team, a kicker can make or break you in crunch time situations. Kicking is extremely important.

                  Comment

                  • Yrogergj24
                    MVP
                    • Feb 2011
                    • 1102

                    #84
                    Re: Is (Insert Player Here) A Hall of Famer?

                    Originally posted by kehlis
                    I appreciate what they have done, I really do. I'm a huge Jason Elam fan but I don't think he's done anything to get himself into the HOF.
                    63 yard field goal, though then we would need to add Dempsey

                    Comment

                    • 55
                      Banned
                      • Mar 2006
                      • 20857

                      #85
                      Re: Is (Insert Player Here) A Hall of Famer?

                      Originally posted by bkrich83
                      Guys who play maybe 4 snaps a game should not be in the hall.
                      Shane Lechler has been the punter for the Raiders for the last 13 seasons, including the last 10 since they were gelded in Super Bowl XXXVII and have been just awful ever since. He's definitely out there for more than 4 snaps a game.

                      Originally posted by bkrich83
                      Not to mention they aren't even football players.
                      Believe it or not, that's only the second most ridiculous thing you've said tonight.

                      Comment

                      • kehlis
                        Moderator
                        • Jul 2008
                        • 27738

                        #86
                        Re: Is (Insert Player Here) A Hall of Famer?

                        Originally posted by Evan_OS
                        Shane Lechler is the most deserving punter in my eyes. He's done his job, and he's done it very well. Unfortunately, the only way you do his job at that level is if you are on a team that sucks.

                        And as far as kickers not being that important to a team, a kicker can make or break you in crunch time situations. Kicking is extremely important.
                        Where did I say a kicker isn't important? I understand how important they are.

                        They just don't have enough of an impact to be deemed hall of fame worthy.

                        Comment

                        • 55
                          Banned
                          • Mar 2006
                          • 20857

                          #87
                          Re: Is (Insert Player Here) A Hall of Famer?

                          Originally posted by Yrogergj24
                          63 yard field goal, though then we would need to add Dempsey
                          Akers and Janikowski have also hit a 63 yard FG.

                          Elam's was a fake by the way.

                          Here is the evidence.

                          Comment

                          • kehlis
                            Moderator
                            • Jul 2008
                            • 27738

                            #88
                            Re: Is (Insert Player Here) A Hall of Famer?

                            Originally posted by 55
                            Akers and Janikowski have also hit a 63 yard FG.

                            Elam's was a fake by the way.

                            Here is the evidence.
                            Tried to like this five times but it wouldn't let me.

                            Comment

                            • 55
                              Banned
                              • Mar 2006
                              • 20857

                              #89
                              Re: Is (Insert Player Here) A Hall of Famer?

                              Originally posted by kehlis
                              Tried to like this five times but it wouldn't let me.
                              Any excuse to link that thread and I'm all over it.

                              Spoiler

                              Comment

                              • rangerrick012
                                All Star
                                • Jan 2010
                                • 6201

                                #90
                                Re: Is (Insert Player Here) A Hall of Famer?

                                Originally posted by kehlis
                                Where did I say a kicker isn't important? I understand how important they are.

                                They just don't have enough of an impact to be deemed hall of fame worthy.
                                I know for a fact that Seabass has won games for us, not just w/ game winners but with kicks all throughout them. Is it his fault that the team around him stinks so he doesn't get to hit as many big ones, just like is it Barry Sanders' fault that he didn't play in the Super Bowl bc of the bad team around him?

                                A great kicker in a close game can be the difference between a win and a loss. Again, no one is saying that every good kicker should be considered, but if a kicker's exceptional at his position, they should be considered just like players at any other position.

                                I'd personally put a great K in ahead of a great Olineman. I know that'll create a firestorm lol.
                                Twitter: @rangerrick012

                                PSN: dsavbeast

                                Comment

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