Jamarcus Russell attempting a comeback

[wwharton]

Re: Jamarcus Russell attempting a comeback

Revisionist nonsense. Russell is entirely to blame for the utter failure that was his pro football career.

Almost all the various draft experts, as well as most teams, had Russell tabbed as the top pick. Case in point: your Baltimore Ravens.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/04/12/brian-billick-offers-a-cautionary-tale-on-jamarcus-russell/

The reason so many people were wrong about Russell had nothing to do with physical abilty, in fact his measurables were off the charts. The problem lay in the fact that there is no way to measure desire.

Russell simply didn't care enough to put in the work necessary to be a successful NFL qb. It seems clear now that that from the moment Jarmacus signed his contract (including a $31 million signing bonus) he went into full "mission accomplished" mode. If that's not stealing, what is it?

His poor work ethic in Oakland is well documented. The fact that the #1 overall pick could be cut after only three seasons and no other team thought it was worth the trouble to so much as a take a look at the guy confirms that; John Lucas' decision to give up on Russell during his first "comeback" attempt in 2011 only serves to further prove the point.

Russell didn't fail because he lacked the abilty to play at the NFL level. He failed because he couldn't or wouldn't put in the work necessary to do so.

All that tells me is that it was a good thing the Ravens didn't have the #1 pick that year, lol. I don't have direct quotes (and don't care to go digging them up) but there were many questions around him deserving the money tied to the #1 pick at the time. If I remember correctly, he was definitely thought to be the best QB on the board that year, but not the best player. With the salary structure, lesser QBs went #1 bc teams were resistant to pay other most other positions #1 money.

Either way, I disagree that it's impossible to measure desire. Many scouts make a lot of money finding the right players for their teams... far beyond the measurables. The Raiders have been notorious for failing in that regard. I'm certainly not saying Russell is without blame but he didn't steal anything. The team was wrong on him and the salary structure made that mean a lot more than it should have. If he does get a second chance, I'm sure he'll have to prove a lot more than the first time around but I don't see why anyone (including you and me) doesn't deserve that look if we can prove we may be able to make it worth a team's while.

[kcharles520]

Re: Jamarcus Russell attempting a comeback

here's a video that legitimately makes jamarcus russell LOOK like he succeeded in the NFL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbRUT9YPzoA

if you watch some of these highlights it's shocking he didn't succeed. laser arm, great mechanics, decent touch, quick delivery, decent mobility. he had all the necessary physical tools...guess his head just wasn't in the game.

and the fact that he was drafted over guys like calvin johnson, adrian peterson etc. shows just how beastly everyone THOUGHT the kid would be.

[TheNumber35]

Re: Jamarcus Russell attempting a comeback

here's a video that legitimately makes jamarcus russell LOOK like he succeeded in the NFL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbRUT9YPzoA

if you watch some of these highlights it's shocking he didn't succeed. laser arm, great mechanics, decent touch, quick delivery, decent mobility. he had all the necessary physical tools...guess his head just wasn't in the game.

and the fact that he was drafted over guys like calvin johnson, adrian peterson etc. shows just how beastly everyone THOUGHT the kid would be.

The only reason Russell didn't succeed was Russell. Simple as that. He didn't care at all about being a good NFL QB, all he cared about was the pay day. Once he got the guaranteed money he lost any desire to try. I heard a story once that Raiders coaches gave Russell a blank DVD and told him to watch it. He came in the next day and when they asked him what he thought, he gave them a huge lie about the tape he "watched" and the defenses he saw. He never even put it in the DVD player to see that there was nothing on it.

That story pretty much sums up the career of JaMarcus Russell to me.

[wwharton]

Re: Jamarcus Russell attempting a comeback

The only reason Russell didn't succeed was Russell. Simple as that. He didn't care at all about being a good NFL QB, all he cared about was the pay day. Once he got the guaranteed money he lost any desire to try. I heard a story once that Raiders coaches gave Russell a blank DVD and told him to watch it. He came in the next day and when they asked him what he thought, he gave them a huge lie about the tape he "watched" and the defenses he saw. He never even put it in the DVD player to see that there was nothing on it.

That story pretty much sums up the career of JaMarcus Russell to me.

Going along with what I was saying before, what's to say he ever tried before he got paid? That's why I say he didn't steal anything. He could've got through college and the combine on natural ability alone. I really don't think he worked his *** off up until being drafted and then decided to not even put in a dvd. He was poorly evaluated from the start.

[TheNumber35]

Re: Jamarcus Russell attempting a comeback

Going along with what I was saying before, what's to say he ever tried before he got paid? That's why I say he didn't steal anything. He could've got through college and the combine on natural ability alone. I really don't think he worked his *** off up until being drafted and then decided to not even put in a dvd. He was poorly evaluated from the start.

That's absolutely fair, I suppose I was going on the assumption that he had to give some effort to add on top of his natural ability...it is incredibly possible that he was doing what he was doing without ever trying so to speak. But I totally agree with your premise, he stole nothing. He played well enough and had the talent to get drafted #1, he got drafted there, got paid, and his issues came out over the next couple years.

Also, I do think there was some poor evaluation with JaMarcus...anyone who says otherwise is ridiculous. There is plenty of ways to find out a guy's work ethic, not like its impossible to find out who does and doesn't work hard.

[oneamongthefence]

All that tells me is that it was a good thing the Ravens didn't have the #1 pick that year, lol. I don't have direct quotes (and don't care to go digging them up) but there were many questions around him deserving the money tied to the #1 pick at the time. If I remember correctly, he was definitely thought to be the best QB on the board that year, but not the best player. With the salary structure, lesser QBs went #1 bc teams were resistant to pay other most other positions #1 money.

Either way, I disagree that it's impossible to measure desire. Many scouts make a lot of money finding the right players for their teams... far beyond the measurables. The Raiders have been notorious for failing in that regard. I'm certainly not saying Russell is without blame but he didn't steal anything. The team was wrong on him and the salary structure made that mean a lot more than it should have. If he does get a second chance, I'm sure he'll have to prove a lot more than the first time around but I don't see why anyone (including you and me) doesn't deserve that look if we can prove we may be able to make it worth a team's while.

I think he would have had a better shot to succeed with Ravens. They had actual leadership in players and coaches. They would have held him to a higher standard than the raiders did. He still may not have been successful but I think he would have been evaluated more honestly in an actual football system. The raiders were lost.

From my fingers to your eyes...

[wwharton]

Re: Jamarcus Russell attempting a comeback

I think he would have had a better shot to succeed with Ravens. They had actual leadership in players and coaches. They would have held him to a higher standard than the raiders did. He still may not have been successful but I think he would have been evaluated more honestly in an actual football system. The raiders were lost.

From my fingers to your eyes...

That's certainly a fair point. I hesitate to agree completely because the organization at the time was pretty bad at developing QBs (what the hell, Billick?) as well as WRs which I think has been overlooked. The Ravens drafted a ton of WRs high but not until they brought in Mason (and later Boldin) to help mentor, they all fizzed out which had a big impact on the passing game. In general the leaders you speak of were on the defensive side of the ball.

[coogrfan]

Re: Jamarcus Russell attempting a comeback

Going along with what I was saying before, what's to say he ever tried before he got paid? That's why I say he didn't steal anything. He could've got through college and the combine on natural ability alone. I really don't think he worked his *** off up until being drafted and then decided to not even put in a dvd. He was poorly evaluated from the start.

I'm sorry, but your "Oakland should have known that I, Jamarcus Russell, was a complete POS" line of reasoning is absolutely ridiculous.

The fact that the Raiders (as well as the rest of the league) failed to realize just how profoundly lazy Russell actually was until it was too late does not absolve Jamarcus of his personal responsibility. He entered into a contractual arrangement with the Raiders to provide certain services, took a large % of his money up front before he had ever set foot in an NFL camp, and then reneged on that agreement by failing to put in the effort required.

That's theft, pure and simple.

[coogrfan]

Re: Jamarcus Russell attempting a comeback

That's absolutely fair, I suppose I was going on the assumption that he had to give some effort to add on top of his natural ability...it is incredibly possible that he was doing what he was doing without ever trying so to speak. But I totally agree with your premise, he stole nothing. He played well enough and had the talent to get drafted #1, he got drafted there, got paid, and his issues came out over the next couple years.

You seem to be saying that a player's first NFL contract is some sort of entitlement. That is not the case. Players are drafted based on their perceived potential in the NFL, not as some sort of reward for playing well in college.

Also, I do think there was some poor evaluation with JaMarcus...anyone who says otherwise is ridiculous. There is plenty of ways to find out a guy's work ethic, not like its impossible to find out who does and doesn't work hard.

True, but hindsight is 20/20. Maybe Russell (and his coaches at LSU) were just really good at telling NFL folks what they wanted to hear?

[wwharton]

Re: Jamarcus Russell attempting a comeback

I'm sorry, but your "Oakland should have known that I, Jamarcus Russell, was a complete POS" line of reasoning is absolutely ridiculous.

The fact that the Raiders (as well as the rest of the league) failed to realize just how profoundly lazy Russell actually was until it was too late does not absolve Jamarcus of his personal responsibility. He entered into a contractual arrangement with the Raiders to provide certain services, took a large % of his money up front before he had ever set foot in an NFL camp, and then reneged on that agreement by failing to put in the effort required.

That's theft, pure and simple.

First, I believe the post JUST before the one you quoted I specifically said "I'm certainly not saying Russell is without blame" so interpreting my last post as him being absolved of personal responsibility is how things like this ends up going around in circles.

As for the rest, he's not the first or last person in absolutely any field on the planet to not live up to perceived expectations... and not one of them has stolen anything. Even the ones who lied in an interview or on a resume, or let their future employee assume they could do more than they really could. BTW, these are all things Russell did not do. I firmly believe that Russell felt he could be successful with the level of effort he wanted to put in... he was probably doing it his entire life up to that point. The difference between great scouting departments and, well, the Raiders scouting department, is they find ways of weeding these type of players out. There are many cases where the hype of the player gets in the way with this... that is amplified when we're talking about a QB (and a team needs one) and a potential #1 pick, but the specifics don't change. He was poorly evaluated and they paid for it. End of story, no theft involved besides hyperbole.

[slickdtc]

I don't know how his laziness passed through all the scouting, especially as a QB whose supposed to be a leader. Sometimes I wonder just how rigorous the scouting process is. It's like everyone was so enamored with his physical attributes that they just assumed his head was in it too.

[SPTO]

Re: Jamarcus Russell attempting a comeback

I don't know how his laziness passed through all the scouting, especially as a QB whose supposed to be a leader. Sometimes I wonder just how rigorous the scouting process is. It's like everyone was so enamored with his physical attributes that they just assumed his head was in it too.

It's been known to happen what with lunkheads like Jeff George being proclaimed the greatest thing since sliced bread or how about Kyle Boller wowing everybody by throwing a ball 60+ yards downfield while on his knees.

Coaches and scouts can be so enamored by physical tools and hype to the point that they think they can fix any deficiencies that player has.

[Rocky]

Re: Jamarcus Russell attempting a comeback

I don't care what anyone says, there's work ethic.....and there's work ethic with 30 million dollars.

[buickbeast]

Re: Jamarcus Russell attempting a comeback

Must have ran out of money.
Prime example of what I think about the NFL
$$$.
Game was so much more enjoyable when I was a kid and didn't know about contracts and crap.

[55]

Re: Jamarcus Russell attempting a comeback

Must have ran out of money.

More like he must have ran out of Purple Drank and Krispy Kremes.