Thread for NFL players in trouble with the law

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: Thread for NFL players in trouble with the law

Having a fall guy now would just be a waste of time considering everyone out here has a phone and all they have to do is whip it out and hit record as soon as they see something about to go down.

[Jr.]

Re: Thread for NFL players in trouble with the law

It's a bad idea to ONLY say get a fall guy... but that's not even what Carter did.

I'll tell you, I've told kids I coached all the time to stay out of trouble, don't even put yourself in position to be in a situation where your friends are doing anything wrong, etc, etc. But at the end of all of it I'd say "If you're out drunk or in some situation and you need a ride or help in some way, don't hesitate to call me." That's not me telling a 17 or 18 year old it's okay to drink. It's acknowledging that no matter what I say, some of them will, and I'd rather them not make the situation worse by driving or doing anything else beyond what they've already done.

That's what Carter was saying. If, despite everything we're trying to tell you you're still going to get in a situation, at least be prepared.

It's a much better message than pretending a bunch of entitled kids that ran not only campuses but college towns would listen to a days worth of old guys preaching to them and automatically change their behavior.

That's not at all how I read it. I read it as Carter telling them to have a guy in their group willing to take the blame if you do something so your name doesn't make headlines.

In the video, which has been removed from the NFL's website, Carter tells the young players, "Just in case y'all not gonna decide to do the right thing, if y'all got a crew, you got to have a fall guy in the crew."
There's a smattering of laughter, including from Warren Sapp, who was also onstage. But Carter appears to be dead serious and continues to drive home his point for about two minutes.
"Y'all not gonna all do the right stuff now, all right?" Carter said. "So I gotta teach y'all how to get around this stuff too. If you gonna have a crew, one of them fools got to know he's going to jail. We'll get him out."

That's different, to me, from what you've said (and what I've told my players as well). Sure, underage drinking is illegal, but no one is able to take the fall if you get caught. This is like saying, "if you do drive drunk, make sure there is someone else in the car that is willing to take the rap for you."

That's how I'm interpreting it, anyway.

I get that you can't lecture and change someone's behavior. But how about ingraining the thought that they have to be accountable for their actions and the NFL will hold them to it. Not that "if you screw up, blame someone else and we'll take care of them, so you don't get in trouble."

[dsallupinyaarea]

Re: Thread for NFL players in trouble with the law

I just view it as uncle advice that's probably good for you but makes your parents cringe just a little. It's like when I tell my nieces that lying is an essential skill in adulthood. Their parents know I'm right but.. ya know, they have to be parents about it.

He definitely shouldn't have said it at an official NFL event, with cameras rolling, though.

[NDAlum]

Re: Thread for NFL players in trouble with the law

I didn't read it like that at all. To apply his thinking to a recent case:

Sheldon Richardson should've had a friend in the car hold all the contraband*, hop into the driver's seat after the stop, and put his hands behind his back when the officer pulled him over.

*Not sure if any was located in the car for those who want to scrutinize the post

[NDAlum]

Re: Thread for NFL players in trouble with the law

I just view it as uncle advice that's probably good for you but makes your parents cringe just a little. It's like when I tell my nieces that lying is an essential skill in adulthood. Their parents know I'm right but.. ya know, they have to be parents about it.

He definitely shouldn't have said it at an official NFL event, with cameras rolling, though.

Too bad Carter didn't take his own advice and have a buddy stand up and give these "words of wisdom".

[phenom1990]

Re: Thread for NFL players in trouble with the law

I think Cris Carter meant to communicate it like Wwharton said but instead did poor job and communicated it in the way Jr. took the comments.

[SPTO]

Re: Thread for NFL players in trouble with the law

I fall more in the line of what Carter said being detrimental but I think it has more to do with the setting rather than the actual advice which I think is highly suspect but it's the accepted wisdom of some guys. There's a difference between taking some rookies aside and saying what he said and then doing the exact same thing at an NFL sponsored event. In truth, I think personal conduct should be a little bit of both, make sure you got a guy who can take the fall for you and take the heat off you from the media but if things get so bad and the evidence/you yourself know you're guilty than you have to take account of yourself and own up to it.

No one person is above the game and the law.

[redsox4evur]

Re: Thread for NFL players in trouble with the law

I think Cris Carter meant to communicate it like Wwharton said but instead did poor job and communicated it in the way Jr. took the comments.

Yea going and reading the quote. That what it sounds like. He was saying, I know y'all still gonna **** up so have a guy that will help you out....an example could be in the HBO show, Ballers. There is a player in a car doing inappropriate things, and a cop knocks on a window. Then another player comes over and gets the guy out of the jam with a couple of autographs or something like that. I think that's what Carter was trying to tell these guys is have something like that second player. That will come and help you out if a situation arises.

[dsallupinyaarea]

Re: Thread for NFL players in trouble with the law

I didn't read it like that at all. To apply his thinking to a recent case:

Sheldon Richardson should've had a friend in the car hold all the contraband*, hop into the driver's seat after the stop, and put his hands behind his back when the officer pulled him over.

*Not sure if any was located in the car for those who want to scrutinize the post

I like to give Cris a little more credit than that. I think he was talking about a little bag of weed (can I say that? If not, my bad), a bar scuffle, someone to get you home when you've had to much to drink, etc. Things that are wrong but, also, things that normal dumb 22 year olds can do and no one cares about. What Richardson was doing is waaaay outside of that scope.

I could be wrong but that's how I saw it.

[NDAlum]

Re: Thread for NFL players in trouble with the law

I just don't see a fall guy as a designated driver.

"Seeing that video has made me realize how wrong I was. I was brought there to educate young people and instead I gave them very bad advice. Every person should take responsibility for his own actions. I’m sorry and I truly regret what I said that day.”

Cris doesn't even Cris a little more credit. There's no way you can spin what he said into something acceptable.

My own take: it's actually good advice for the select few rookies who are going to ignore better advice and stay away from trouble. You just can't say this in a public setting which it appears to have been since there are cameras rolling. Also in your HOF jacket...LOL.

[wwharton]

Re: Thread for NFL players in trouble with the law

Having a fall guy now would just be a waste of time considering everyone out here has a phone and all they have to do is whip it out and hit record as soon as they see something about to go down.

This is very true.

That's not at all how I read it. I read it as Carter telling them to have a guy in their group willing to take the blame if you do something so your name doesn't make headlines.

That's different, to me, from what you've said (and what I've told my players as well). Sure, underage drinking is illegal, but no one is able to take the fall if you get caught. This is like saying, "if you do drive drunk, make sure there is someone else in the car that is willing to take the rap for you."

That's how I'm interpreting it, anyway.

I get that you can't lecture and change someone's behavior. But how about ingraining the thought that they have to be accountable for their actions and the NFL will hold them to it. Not that "if you screw up, blame someone else and we'll take care of them, so you don't get in trouble."

I think others have done a good job of explaining but I'll reply anyway.

I don't see it all that different than what I said, as even in the quote he said "Y'all not gonna all do the right stuff now, all right?" and "Just in case y'all don't all do the right thing."

His delivery is absolutely horrible, and we don't know how much of the actual correct advice was given before he gave this message. But I completely get his intentions.

I think Cris Carter meant to communicate it like Wwharton said but instead did poor job and communicated it in the way Jr. took the comments.

Absolutely, but this is where I think the problem is this being yet another made for fan viewing event. It should be a "circle of trust" type of closed door event where some guys with some real experiences that almost cost them their careers can have real discussions with these incoming players.

Someone else mentioned (I thought I quoted them... sorry) this makes more sense with a handful of players likely to get into trouble. That may be true as I think this gained legs when one of the players there was offended. But I think too many can slip through the cracks that way. Give the message to everyone, the ones with some sense will be just as likely to say "Oh, I actually can act a fool as long as I have a fall guy" as the one's that need this kind of message are to say "Chris Carter says to keep my nose clean so I'm going to stop hitting the clubs tomorrow."

For another comparison, this reminds me of bounty gate. NFL pregame lockerrooms shouldn't have cameras for the public to see and hear what goes down.

I just don't see a fall guy as a designated driver.

"Seeing that video has made me realize how wrong I was. I was brought there to educate young people and instead I gave them very bad advice. Every person should take responsibility for his own actions. I’m sorry and I truly regret what I said that day.”

Cris doesn't even Cris a little more credit. There's no way you can spin what he said into something acceptable.

My own take: it's actually good advice for the select few rookies who are going to ignore better advice and stay away from trouble. You just can't say this in a public setting which it appears to have been since there are cameras rolling. Also in your HOF jacket...LOL.

Considering your job, I COMPLETELY understand how you see it. And, of course, you're right. It's not a good message no matter how you look at it. Unfortunately, it is a necessary message for some players. IMO anyway. Your opinion may be that they deserve what they get, and I definitely wouldn't argue with that.

[NDAlum]

Re: Thread for NFL players in trouble with the law

At the end of my post I state I think the advice is pretty good. I'm not as black and white as you may think just because of my job. I'm pretty moderate on most things. There is really only one way to see what he said because his language doesn't leave room for interpretation.

[wwharton]

Re: Thread for NFL players in trouble with the law

At the end of my post I state I think the advice is pretty good. I'm not as black and white as you may think just because of my job. I'm pretty moderate on most things. There is really only one way to see what he said because his language doesn't leave room for interpretation.

Yeah I get where you're coming from.

I think the comment about it being like the uncle that makes your parents cringe is about as accurate as it can get. On one hand, you wish Carter delivered the message in a more appropriate way and on the other hand, you wonder if the message delivered another way would reach the ones it's meant for... or if Carter didn't have the experiences he's had, that made the message come out the way that it did, would his message been respected by those it's meant for.

It's tough... that's why I just wish we didn't have access to this type of stuff.

[ImTellinTim]

Re: Thread for NFL players in trouble with the law

I just prefer to continue to have the opinion that Cris Carter is a hypocrite and idiot and that this is the type of stuff that you learn when you play football at OSU.

[redsox4evur]

Re: Thread for NFL players in trouble with the law

I just prefer to continue to have the opinion that Cris Carter is a hypocrite and idiot and that this is the type of stuff that you learn when you play football at OSU.

I would expand the last part to playing anywhere not just OSU. Cris Carter said what vets have been telling rookies since the turn of time. It's not a new thing. Hell he said this a year ago and we are just bringing it up now...listening to Scott Zolak the last couple of days on his Boston talk radio show he has this isn't something new that he was told this by guys when he entered the league in 1991.